Tweet
Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan
[QUOTE=Vrej1915;369956]My Dear,
When did I talked about BS as HR??
Talk is about modern world, with very accelerated dynamics.
Realities a decade back have turned upside down, and you can't just continue the old divide lines West/East, it is simply not true.
Lines are being redrawn, and as Khrimyan Hayrik said, the ones with a iron sherep try to take their portion of Harissa.
Alas, now we do finally have the iron sherep, but we do refuse to go to the party all toghether, by handing everything to one other bear.....
- US is Turkey's ally, yet it is the US who did create the Kurdish problem out of the blew, with major Israeli participation.
-The US and Iran are supposed enemies, yet whenever you look in the wide spectrum from Afganistan to Damaskos, they cooperate, and this for at least more than a decade... the shiite crescent is effectively a US/UK aftermath....
- Russia is supposed to be the ally of Syria, and Iran, yet it is in very close partenership with Israel while present in Damaskos and Latakya.
- Russia and Turkey were basically allies untille very recently, and yet they do share a common stretegic partener in Baku.
- Fact is that The West did not sell major arms to Baku to this day, and certainly not for HR reasons.
- Fact is , that the same reasons having pushed the creation of a Kurdish factor within Turkey, even if they do seem odd to you, are a good ground for the existence of an other major element: Armenia. And evidently not a russian province named Armenia....
- Whether we are in or out, whether it pleases this or that power, the process is launched, and in my opinion no more stoppable, even if today the US decides to stop it... it will take certainly more time, yet the powder barrel is ignited: the borders will be redrawn in the bigger ME. (thank you G W Bush, national hero of Kurdistan).
- It is up to us to take part, and save at least part of our homeland , turning our landlocked state into more viable one. But in this part, Russia is not at all our ally at all, rather Turkish ally, as history always proved, for objective reasons. I do not blame Russia, it is just normal, 2 weakening empires do cooperate to survive..., and yet again, to avoid 1920-23 situation, we must definitely not be part of the Russian empire, to have the permission for it... no West will back our claims, if we are a russian slave, it will all together go to the Kurds, good western fellows....
- The Goble plan you are referring to is already history, today. At that time turks were close american allies, there was no Kurdish problem, and we were considered russian puppets.
Thanks God, in actual life, the US is not pushing for it, quite the contrary. (that's not to say, it might not be revived).
- Geopolitics is in perpetual move, something actual today is irrelevant tommorrow, and vice versa. The art of politics and diplomacy is to take advantage, when and what is possible for yourself.
- Russia has definitely no merits in the creation of NKR, quite the contrary, back in 1988-94.
- The US has absolutely no interest in merging Azerbaijan with Turkey, quite the opposite. They do their best to keep them apart, since they do perfectly understand that Baku is anyway theirs, and do not see the interest in sharing with Turkey (it is only russians who do not understand this, thanks to high skilled azero-turkish diplomacy). Yet again HR BS is not referred here..., one of the reasons why Washington is happy with the kurrdish proto sovieticus family, is its differences with Turkey....
- Since Baku Ceyhan, times changing, the US/West did a pretty effective job in sabotaging pan turkic plans like Kars-Akhalkalak-tiflis, or Nabucco, etc....
- Today an independent Armenia, strong enough to be semi autonomous and defendable, might well suit the changing dynamics, in a futur American/Iranian axis that is being carved, no matter the denegations, and Israeli, turkish sabotage... (the arabs are not serious, with all their outdated oil mastercards).
- As a matter of fact, the old big game is back on the table, and Turkey will be digested, if not by others, at least by the Kurdish element, and yet again, no matter the Western wishes anymore. What will come for Russia is less certain, but for objective reasons, expansion seems less than likely.
- I am not advocating enemity with Russia, but recovering of our decision making capacity. No matter what we can gain on the battelfield, if Mr Medvedev or putin can just order us back by a phone call...
- Our force is the unity and incredible patriotism of our race, that seems just awakening. No one outside Armenia, and most inside would have bet a penny on our union capacity... these days all the Talin district is, like most regions of Armenia and NKR, in burrials of the fallen boys... yet all the ancient azadamartiks, just try to arrange their affairs to go to the front...., people having passed their chance in last war, are doing their best to take revange. This is not empty words, this nation is transfigurating since 2014... and no one could have guessed in the regime or outside, apart those who did already passed this way back in 1992... I just wish Serjik wakes up, shakes his head, and tries to be pardonned by its kin, and tries to deserve a decent role in history, .... rather than the gambler who missed the golden chance of its people....
- You are alas very wrong, when you think our regime had any talent in dealing with outside powers. Rather they missed every opportunity they could, yet the result of their mistakes, the blood we waste, is the one saving their day...... Hope just that this shameful mismanagement, resulting in this once more missed chance, will force a change on us. At least if we recover our independence, sent the collaborators like nalbantoghlu to hell, we may still have other opportunities ahead.
- Provided we unite, keep our decision making ability, and set clear cut targets for ourselves.[/QUOTE
Very good words Vrej.
But so?
You bring the example of Kurds. "Stateless". You mentioned it.
Where is the example that we should take from them?
They got short changed on two Iraqi wars. Being US allies, Washington cannot stop turkey from bombing them. They got genocidal massacres in southern turkey and west is silent. No arming by US in fear that they wil use it to defend themselfs against turkey.
Kurds are exactly in the same shoes as we were 150 years ago. What is your example about Kurds to teach at all?
The Kurdish problem for turkey was not initiated by west but by USSR in late 70s and early 80s in PKK.
All the lengthy speech you made nobody is arguing against.
Iran and US are as opposing each other as they can be. In almost every issue in Middle East.
And yes dynamics change. Who would think 30 years ago that one day USSR would be no more? So will today's turkey.
But all the point you bring is about unity, nobody will object.
Now you and lots of people are focusing on our own political unified agenda. Good.
This should have been done from 3 years ago, when every means was used to prove that we should reject partnership with Russia snd go for EU partnership. peopke were proving that west was our future etc etc. you remember.
Only events in Ukraine, libia, Syria came to show that west was playing as dirty game or more as Russia.
But instead of political blind rethorics, this words of yours should have been said 3 years ago.
We could have been significantly ahead.
Remember our arguments?
Like always I have said.
There is no thruth or benefit in comparison conviction. One has to look in relations with Russia, west etc separately.
Russia is this, ok. West's is that, ok.
Proving that west will save us or something better and Russia will make us give up Artsakh or anything does not constitute a viable future policy direction.
We have to stop searching who is friend or foe in every intance and made our convictions even argue.
If there was an opposition that could light an alternative direction to Serj Sargsians governmeyn's, it would have been taken up very quickly.
But pointing the situation or killing the messenger, so to speak,for not being able to find better alternatives is waist of time.
[QUOTE=Vrej1915;369956]My Dear,
When did I talked about BS as HR??
Talk is about modern world, with very accelerated dynamics.
Realities a decade back have turned upside down, and you can't just continue the old divide lines West/East, it is simply not true.
Lines are being redrawn, and as Khrimyan Hayrik said, the ones with a iron sherep try to take their portion of Harissa.
Alas, now we do finally have the iron sherep, but we do refuse to go to the party all toghether, by handing everything to one other bear.....
- US is Turkey's ally, yet it is the US who did create the Kurdish problem out of the blew, with major Israeli participation.
-The US and Iran are supposed enemies, yet whenever you look in the wide spectrum from Afganistan to Damaskos, they cooperate, and this for at least more than a decade... the shiite crescent is effectively a US/UK aftermath....
- Russia is supposed to be the ally of Syria, and Iran, yet it is in very close partenership with Israel while present in Damaskos and Latakya.
- Russia and Turkey were basically allies untille very recently, and yet they do share a common stretegic partener in Baku.
- Fact is that The West did not sell major arms to Baku to this day, and certainly not for HR reasons.
- Fact is , that the same reasons having pushed the creation of a Kurdish factor within Turkey, even if they do seem odd to you, are a good ground for the existence of an other major element: Armenia. And evidently not a russian province named Armenia....
- Whether we are in or out, whether it pleases this or that power, the process is launched, and in my opinion no more stoppable, even if today the US decides to stop it... it will take certainly more time, yet the powder barrel is ignited: the borders will be redrawn in the bigger ME. (thank you G W Bush, national hero of Kurdistan).
- It is up to us to take part, and save at least part of our homeland , turning our landlocked state into more viable one. But in this part, Russia is not at all our ally at all, rather Turkish ally, as history always proved, for objective reasons. I do not blame Russia, it is just normal, 2 weakening empires do cooperate to survive..., and yet again, to avoid 1920-23 situation, we must definitely not be part of the Russian empire, to have the permission for it... no West will back our claims, if we are a russian slave, it will all together go to the Kurds, good western fellows....
- The Goble plan you are referring to is already history, today. At that time turks were close american allies, there was no Kurdish problem, and we were considered russian puppets.
Thanks God, in actual life, the US is not pushing for it, quite the contrary. (that's not to say, it might not be revived).
- Geopolitics is in perpetual move, something actual today is irrelevant tommorrow, and vice versa. The art of politics and diplomacy is to take advantage, when and what is possible for yourself.
- Russia has definitely no merits in the creation of NKR, quite the contrary, back in 1988-94.
- The US has absolutely no interest in merging Azerbaijan with Turkey, quite the opposite. They do their best to keep them apart, since they do perfectly understand that Baku is anyway theirs, and do not see the interest in sharing with Turkey (it is only russians who do not understand this, thanks to high skilled azero-turkish diplomacy). Yet again HR BS is not referred here..., one of the reasons why Washington is happy with the kurrdish proto sovieticus family, is its differences with Turkey....
- Since Baku Ceyhan, times changing, the US/West did a pretty effective job in sabotaging pan turkic plans like Kars-Akhalkalak-tiflis, or Nabucco, etc....
- Today an independent Armenia, strong enough to be semi autonomous and defendable, might well suit the changing dynamics, in a futur American/Iranian axis that is being carved, no matter the denegations, and Israeli, turkish sabotage... (the arabs are not serious, with all their outdated oil mastercards).
- As a matter of fact, the old big game is back on the table, and Turkey will be digested, if not by others, at least by the Kurdish element, and yet again, no matter the Western wishes anymore. What will come for Russia is less certain, but for objective reasons, expansion seems less than likely.
- I am not advocating enemity with Russia, but recovering of our decision making capacity. No matter what we can gain on the battelfield, if Mr Medvedev or putin can just order us back by a phone call...
- Our force is the unity and incredible patriotism of our race, that seems just awakening. No one outside Armenia, and most inside would have bet a penny on our union capacity... these days all the Talin district is, like most regions of Armenia and NKR, in burrials of the fallen boys... yet all the ancient azadamartiks, just try to arrange their affairs to go to the front...., people having passed their chance in last war, are doing their best to take revange. This is not empty words, this nation is transfigurating since 2014... and no one could have guessed in the regime or outside, apart those who did already passed this way back in 1992... I just wish Serjik wakes up, shakes his head, and tries to be pardonned by its kin, and tries to deserve a decent role in history, .... rather than the gambler who missed the golden chance of its people....
- You are alas very wrong, when you think our regime had any talent in dealing with outside powers. Rather they missed every opportunity they could, yet the result of their mistakes, the blood we waste, is the one saving their day...... Hope just that this shameful mismanagement, resulting in this once more missed chance, will force a change on us. At least if we recover our independence, sent the collaborators like nalbantoghlu to hell, we may still have other opportunities ahead.
- Provided we unite, keep our decision making ability, and set clear cut targets for ourselves.[/QUOTE
Very good words Vrej.
But so?
You bring the example of Kurds. "Stateless". You mentioned it.
Where is the example that we should take from them?
They got short changed on two Iraqi wars. Being US allies, Washington cannot stop turkey from bombing them. They got genocidal massacres in southern turkey and west is silent. No arming by US in fear that they wil use it to defend themselfs against turkey.
Kurds are exactly in the same shoes as we were 150 years ago. What is your example about Kurds to teach at all?
The Kurdish problem for turkey was not initiated by west but by USSR in late 70s and early 80s in PKK.
All the lengthy speech you made nobody is arguing against.
Iran and US are as opposing each other as they can be. In almost every issue in Middle East.
And yes dynamics change. Who would think 30 years ago that one day USSR would be no more? So will today's turkey.
But all the point you bring is about unity, nobody will object.
Now you and lots of people are focusing on our own political unified agenda. Good.
This should have been done from 3 years ago, when every means was used to prove that we should reject partnership with Russia snd go for EU partnership. peopke were proving that west was our future etc etc. you remember.
Only events in Ukraine, libia, Syria came to show that west was playing as dirty game or more as Russia.
But instead of political blind rethorics, this words of yours should have been said 3 years ago.
We could have been significantly ahead.
Remember our arguments?
Like always I have said.
There is no thruth or benefit in comparison conviction. One has to look in relations with Russia, west etc separately.
Russia is this, ok. West's is that, ok.
Proving that west will save us or something better and Russia will make us give up Artsakh or anything does not constitute a viable future policy direction.
We have to stop searching who is friend or foe in every intance and made our convictions even argue.
If there was an opposition that could light an alternative direction to Serj Sargsians governmeyn's, it would have been taken up very quickly.
But pointing the situation or killing the messenger, so to speak,for not being able to find better alternatives is waist of time.
Comment