Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[ayrudzi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Guys I'm not saying our generals don't want a counter attack or that they are not planning one however it might be outside pressure mainly Russia not letting the armenian side attack I have been pro Russia but after these events it seems they don't care about us they call us allies but protect Azerbaijan so they keep their influence there. I don't know what the solution is but it's a xxxxty situation. At least the US. Is loyal to its allies even if said allies are in the wrong

[argin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Get a load from this bit ch,they behead and do other atrocities in the battle field and to civilians and now they are the ones pleading victim

Azerbaijani Ombudsman appeals to int’l organizations over Armenian crimes against Azerbaijani civilians
18:38 12-04-2016


Baku. Farid Mirzayev – APA. Commissioner for Human Rights (Ombudsman) of Azerbaijan Elmira Suleymanova has issued a statement on the killing of the civilian population of Azerbaijan by Armenian armed force.
The statement has been addressed to the UN Secretary General, the UN Security Council, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, the European Commission, the Council of Europe, OSCE, the International and European Ombudsman Institutes, the Asian Ombudsman Association, the International Peace Bureau, ombudsmen of a number of countries, Azerbaijan’s diplomatic missions abroad and foreign countries’ diplomatic missions in Azerbaijan and Azerbaijani diaspora organizations.

“On the night of April 2, 2016, the frontier positions of Azerbaijani armed forces, residential areas, schools and other social facilities along the contact line of Azerbaijani and Armenian troops were subjected to heavy firing from the Armenian side, which used large-caliber weapons and heavy artillery. As a result, civilians, including children, women and elderly people were killed and seriously wounded,” the statement said.

Having committed these military crimes, Armenia grossly violated the Geneva Conventions and its obligations to other international documents, said the statement.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Prominent investigative journalist Edik Baghdasaryan interesting comment on the state of the army.

Edik Baghdasaryan
Դուք պիտի տեսնեք թե մեր սպաներն ինչպես են <գուրգուրում> իրենց զինվորներին, ոչ մի ձեւական հրաման, ոչ մի ավելորդ խոսք, հավասարը հավասարի հետ են խրամատում։ Մեր սպաների, զինվորների մասին դեռ ինչքան լեգենդներ կան, որ պիտի պատմվի։ Պատերազմի չորս օրը էնքան բան փոխեց այստեղ, մնում է կարողանանք թիկունքում էլ փոխենք։ https://www.facebook.com/edik.baghda...22566487759347

[Shant03]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

Guys I'm not saying our generals don't want a counter attack or that they are not planning one however it might be outside pressure mainly Russia not letting the armenian side attack I have been pro Russia but after these events it seems they don't care about us they call us allies but protect Azerbaijan so they keep their influence there. I don't know what the solution is but it's a xxxxty situation. At least the US. Is loyal to its allies even if said allies are in the wrong

The US has turned its back on the kurds and millions of others and will turn its back even quicker on us. Russia, while not the ideal partner is all we've got, we've got to make the best of it but ideally need to become independent.

[bayhye]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

The Azeris subscribe to Hitler's Big Lie theory. I give them credit that they create a STORY, wildly fake and incredibly stupid on analysis, but they stick to it since they control the media.

Here, they have repeated over and over again, lying through their teeth, that we attacked civilians on April 2nd, and that's why they "counterattacked." Every idiotic news outlet is parroting this story or saying it is "contested" who fired first-- because Azeris, being lazy filth that wasted $20B of oil revenues themselves, know that reporters are lazy, especially when it has to do with a bunch of former Soviet countries with long last names that no one really cares about. This happened with their fake "unilateral" ceasefire, when Reuters et al. all posted that Azeri's stopped the war because they're so generous, even though one second of searching showed it was totally fake. Now they're countering their WAR CRIMES by pushing a story that we attacked civilians. It all fits into a narrative, it's all constantly repeated, and it's spoon fed. Reporters don't know that the media is controlled by the government, and there are no alternative sources to challenge the narrative.

Armenians try to share the truth, mostly because it is too small of a nation to hide anything, and because the diasporan culture demands it. Howeer, we are trying to win points for authenticity and friendliness, and instead, we are getting frustrated that the press is treating us equally with the scum. We need to write our NARRATIVE, and reinforce it constantly, because we have the truth and proof on our sides.

A simple, true narrative-- NK is a small group of westernized, democratic, ancient, Christian people who lived under a forced, but autonomous region within the newly created Azerbaijan country. They legally and democratically voted to secede from the Soviet Union because of systematic abuse. The Turks, who violently enforce a law against "insulting Turkishness" and had committed a Genocide against this same people just 80 years prior, had their pride hurt and their bloodlust awakened. Instead of accepting the legal secession, they illegally attacked these villagers with mercenary Mujahadeen, and unnecessarily butchered 30000 people on both sides. The Armenians, fighting for their home, culture and religion against a country fighting for territory, won decisively and had their hand forced into a ceasefire by Russia, who preferred to freeze the conflict without resolution to ensure they were needed. For 20 years, the landlocked Armenians have been under daily unprovoked attack by a country 100x its size, made wildly rich by oil reserves, who are using it as a much-needed distraction against their domestic abuses of journalists and minorities, and an attempt to satisfy the pan-Turkic ambitions of its Turkish ally. In 2016, a concerted "blitzkrieg" attack agains the Armenian positions was attempted, needlessly slaughtering 100s of troops and civilians in a failed attempt to score a victory for domestic consumption on the same evening that the Panama papers were leaked, inditing the ruling Aliyev family's corruption. Armenian civilians and soldiers were tortured, mutilated, and beheaded, with Azeri special forces troops proudly displaying photos of their war crimes. This small band of people deserves to live free of this oppression, torture, and murder, and Armenians urge worldwide governments to support their rights to life and liberty.

[Shant03]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

^ It is because the billions they spend on Israel aren't just for weapons but also for their powerful lobbyists/media here in the States. Israel is as much of an Enemy to Armenians as these dumb turks are, they are behind the genocide and especially in the Baku pogroms against Armenians. They wanted us out of those oil fields the second the Soviet Union crumbled. We have always been on the defensive end of things and felt surrounded with no helping hand in sight, it is time we wise up and stop playing their games and instead create our own. We are in a fortunate position despite the lack of a real allie or natural resources, we have a powerful diaspora that needs to create a program to build armenia within. Our population in armenia is educated yet affordable in terms of wages, we need to exploit this and become the silicone valley we were rumoured to be a few years back.

[HyeSocialist]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

^ It is because the billions they spend on Israel aren't just for weapons but also for their powerful lobbyists/media here in the States. Israel is as much of an Enemy to Armenians as these dumb turks are, they are behind the genocide and especially in the Baku pogroms against Armenians. They wanted us out of those oil fields the second the Soviet Union crumbled. We have always been on the defensive end of things and felt surrounded with no helping hand in sight, it is time we wise up and stop playing their games and instead create our own. We are in a fortunate position despite the lack of a real allie or natural resources, we have a powerful diaspora that needs to create a program to build armenia within. Our population in armenia is educated yet affordable in terms of wages, we need to exploit this and become the silicone valley we were rumoured to be a few years back.

Hents vor at mera kunvatsi aliyevi pokheruh prtsni nor k tesnenk ova uzheghuh

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

my question is how do you know for certain that we have to multiply the number by 3 or 4 where do you get these facts from that we HAVE to multiply by 3 or 4 I know azeri side is not truthful but fact is the the numbers of casualties are more or less equal according to razm.info so where is the 3 or 4 times coming from what concrete evidence is their?

Ayrudzi you are beating the bushes.
Azeris were the attackers, we were defending our fortified positions. Military rule of thumb is, atackers loose 3-4 times more than defenders. It has never changed. This is for successful attack. Azeris had only initial success because of surprise attack, but they lost the 4day war because they were thrown back. That will bring their dead even higher. This is for equal fighting forces.
But you have to add to this the fact that Azeris threw in much more forces than we had, this means bigger number of target/casualties.
Plus, even foreign commentators pointed to our artillery effectiveness. Artillery means more enemy dead.
The fact is this was a 4 day war, real war.
All this time every military expert was saying that next war was going to be very costly because of armaments. We were anticipating it with dread.
But thanks god what it looks like all ended in 4 days. Thanks to our army.
In 4 days Azeris decided it was enough.
If this will not restart, we have every reason to celebrate. With sadness for our dear soldier casualties, but neverdless.
Some people measure victory by how much land is won. But if you have what you need already, then it's not a war for land for us as much as moral, strategic, tactical victory. And in all this categories victory is ours.
That 200 meter land Azeris won, they can shove it in their arse.
We took hits with brand new technology but made the attackers kneal (retreat).
You can try to compare numbers all you want, but Azeris are never going to publish theirs. If their numbers were matching their winnings, they would trumpet them for whole world. But we did not give them that opportunity. On the contrary they went and asked for ceasefire their tails between their legs.
You want me to continue?
Right now we should mourn our losses, but also celebrate the victory and pride they gave us.
That is what each of our Heroes would want us to do.

[Mher]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

You people and your pro this and anti that. Just be pro-Armenia. It was funny when everyone thought Russia had our best interest in mind, and it's just as funny that some people think they're the only thing stopping us from conquering Azerbaijan. Just a reminder, we had the army we have in large parts thanks to our our military cooperation with Russia. And btw the other side is still much better armed, and a hundred families just lost someone, most of them teenage kids.

Let's not get silly. Russia didn't stop anything. How much did you foresee us going forward? How many people were you willing to see die? Were we gonna take Nakhichevan? Would we retake all of Shahumian? We currently don't have the means for such a mission.

Unless you are volunteering to go participate in this offensive, I find it hypocritical to sit thousand of kms away and watch teenagers get mutilated like its some game. We have this mentality in the diaspora far too much. Because we don't have to live through the daily struggles of life in Armenia. We don't have to deal with the political, economic, and social shortcomings, and we are often ignorant. It's not an accident that this is the most popular thread in this forum. So we have this militaristic mentality. Because it's not war for a national betterment or survival. It's war for the hell of it. war hero Shahe Ajemian last facebook post before heading to the front was this:

Who dies for Armenia ? who gets wounds for Armenia ?
Of curse the only ones who lives in Armenia !!!
All other Armenians are just watchers from far far far away ..........
and i don't want to judge them more !!!!!



Defending your own familiar land in a defensive war, in your well entrenched positions is completely different than an offensive war. Specially when the other side is better armed and has many times more soldiers to spare. That motivation and morale we keep talking about? That comes from knowing youre defending your own land, you're ancestral graves, and have no other option. That doesn't apply nearly as well for random adventures. In fact, it gives the other side some real motivation.

Defending your land out of necessity with no other option is a different matter than an incursion sending eighteen year old kids to their deaths and accidentally starting war and hence undoing twenty five years of nation building through choice is something else.

This isn't a video game where you win or lose and you go home. We are losing the real war. That's our economy and demographic. It doesn't matter if the other side is losing that too. This mission isn't to destroy Azerbaijan. It's to advance Armenia. If you start a full scale war, Armenia loses either way. I don't care what happens to the animals on the other side. There's so much to already do in Armenia, and so little money to do it with, a few more billion dollars of damage, or a few hundred thousand more leaving may be enough to end us as a country.

Now if somehow you believe war is imminent and our best defensive and most efficient move is a preemptive attack, that's a different matter. But if that was the case, our army would have moved in. Or if you somehow you think we can make very strategic gains with minimal losses, that's different. And again, our army would have done it. But I don't see how that's currently possible given our arsenal. Or if the enemy is firing mortars and you're just firing back, that's different.But to go get a single hill in the desert of Hadrut seems idiotic. This isn't Azerbaijan where they posted fifty videos from this one hill that nobody had heard of before a week ago, like they had entered Shushi. We already know we won. I don't understand what the objective would be. You're essentially asking exactly for the dumb thing Aliyev has done.

Azerbaijan is on the verge of self-destruction

http://www.brecorder.com/world/global-business-a-economy/285778-azerbaijans-economy-contracts-by-32pc-in-jan-feb.html

Azerbaijan will not have enough time to fail economically. It'll fail politically long before then. They need a war to prevent that.

They are trying to entice a war. It should be our job to not fall for it. If it's possible to deescalate the situation, and focus on advancing our country while the enemy continues to self-destruct. that is what we need to do.

It's certainly not time to turn against Russia just as a prideful emotional move like that moron saakashvili. There would be nothing to gain from that. Russia can hurt us so much more than we can hurt it. Of course we should be tough with Russia and make the best of deals. But to abandon it for no better alternative just as an act of pride? Did people forget that we have indeed gotten cheap weapons from Russia for the past two decades, and that is a reason we have the confidence we do.

Armenia has made many pragmatic moves over the past decade that have paid off tremendously. We joined the EEU over the AA agreement for all the non economic benefits, and somehow we still managed to economically outperform Georgia, who signed the AA. These decisions have resulted in us being able to survive years of enemy having a military budget of almost ten times ours. Their golden years are done. They were done eighteen months ago. Hence why they attacked. We made it through the worst part. So let's calm down and not make dramatic moves now and undo all of that work when we're almost at the finish line. Soon enough they'll destroy themselves and we can take what we need at a much lower cost. At a point when were are much stronger.

From here on out, the military balance will continue to shift towards us as the economic balance turns towards us. The more we wait the better position we're in militarily. It's utterly idiotic to play into their hands and encourage conflict when you know, as a matter of undeniable fact that every day, they get weaker than the day before.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

Հայ զինվորին ծնողից հետո ամենաշատը սիրում է իր հրամանատարը

12 Ապրիլի 2016,

ԼՂՀ ՊՆ մամուլի խոսնակ Արծրուն Հովհաննիսյանը «Ֆեյսբուքի» իր էջում գրում է. «Ապրիլյան չորսօրյա պատերազմը մի կարևոր բան փաստեց ու վերջանական փաստեց: Հայ զինվորին ծնողից հետո ամենաշատը սիրում է իր հրամանատարը, որը իր կյանքով է հաճախ փրկում նրանց: Այս իրողությունը այլևս շատ բան պիտի փոխի»:

This is the big victory for us.