Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Artsakh]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Translation: "We hung on when we had no water or electricity, we can wait twelve more months for Azebaijan to collapse- and Putin should learn his limits"

The Armenian side had always implied that it was willing to cede land in exchange for the recognition of NKR along with a corridor connecting to Armenia. That's what the Madrid principles are largely all about. Moreover, it had always been Azerbaijan not willing to go along with such terms. Here I'm seeing a shift in Yerevan's official stance/policy. By "not seeing any resolution in the foreseeable future", in essence Yerevan is saying its content with the status quo, thus against the return of any territories. And this is the message being put out ahead of Lavrov's visit, implying that such proposals are out of the question.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

NKR along with a corridor connecting to Armenia.

Who came up with this NKR boundary map? Based on what?
We are too soft, too polite. Lets talk of the 90% of the remaining Armenian territories lost to these turkic invaders instead of politely agreeing to some fictitious boundaries.

[Mher]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The Armenian side had always implied that it was willing to cede land in exchange for the recognition of NKR along with a corridor connecting to Armenia. That's what the Madrid principles are largely all about. Moreover, it had always been Azerbaijan not willing to go along with such terms. Here I'm seeing a shift in Yerevan's official stance/policy. By "not seeing any resolution in the foreseeable future", in essence Yerevan is saying its content with the status quo, thus against the return of any territories. And this is the message being put out ahead of Lavrov's visit, implying that such proposals are out of the question.

Unfortunately we had to agree to plenty of stuff when we had the position of beggars and Azerbaijan looked like it might become the next Dubai. When the joke of a document called Madrid Principles was signed in 2007, Azerbaijan had the single fastest growing economy in the entire world with a GDP growth rate of 35%. We had no way of knowing that was actually the highest it would go, and that starting in 2011 their oil production would start declining. At that point it looked like it was only a matter of time before they bought their way to victory. So it was better to lose it just on paper with some undetermined future date than in reality at that moment.

However, I don't think there was ever a point, even in the darkest days during the past twenty five years where anyone would have thought it would be acceptable to give land back- maybe other than LTP. Even putting aside all sense of national pride and self-respect, it would be an utter lie to say you can guarantee the safety of anyone in Stepanakert with Azeri weapons in Khojaly again.


But now that they have revealed their military peak is nothing to fear, and now that we know their economy is on the verge of collapse, we can speak openly and with some dignity. So let's make one thing clear. Not a single grain of dirt will ever be given up.

This is the map of the Republic of Karabakh. We shouldn't even include Shahumyan in there until it's liberated. These are it's borders. If anyone thinks they should change, they can go join the dead Azeri commandos in the fields of Mardakert.

[Artsakh]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Who came up with this NKR boundary map? Based on what?
We are too soft, too polite. Lets talk of the 90% of the remaining Armenian territories lost to these turkic invaders instead of politely agreeing to some fictitious boundaries.

There's a difference between words and deeds. No matter the politics behind it, that was the official position of Armenia. Look up the Madrid principles on google. The fact on the group is we haven't given up an inch. Now it seems we're saying it aloud, "we're not giving up an inch."

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

IN ARTSAKH, PRESIDENT SERZH SARGSYAN HANDED HIGH STATE AWARDS TO THE SOLDIERS OF FATHERLAND

19.04.2016

Today, the President of the Republic of Armenia Serzh Sargsyan and President of NKR Bako Sahakian in Karabakh visited one of the military units of the Defense Army and handed state awards to a number of servicemen who during the military offensive unleashed by the enemy on April 2-5 demonstrated courage and valor in defending the state border of the Republic of Nagorno Karabakh.

For the exceptional courage, selfless valor and boundless dedication in defending borders of Fatherland, the First Degree Military Cross was awarded to the Head of the N unit Colonel Genadi Baghdassarian, Deputy Head of the military unit Colonel Ararat Melkumian, regiment Commander Lieutenant Colonel Artyom Gevorkian, battalion Commander Mayor Edik Maloyan, company Commander Mayor Ararat Baghdassarian, serviceman of the unit Sergeant Marat Petrossian.

The Second Degree Combat Cross was awarded to Deputy Commander of N unit Colonel Norayr Aslanian, Deputy Commander Colonel Sergei Arustamian, Commander Lieutenant Colonel Martin Jhangirian, Head of service Mayor Aram Poghossian, Deputy Commander Mayor Arthur Hovsepian, regiment Commander Captain Arman Adamian, regiment Commander First Lieutenant Roman Adamian, Deputy Commander of the unit group Junior Sergeant Razmik Gasparian, serviceman Sergeant Shuli Hakopian, serviceman Junior Sergeant Arthur Aghassian, serviceman Private Harutyun Badalian, serviceman Private Narek Malkhassian.

The Medal for Valor was awarded to Head of the N unit Lieutenant Colonel Vrezh Grigorian, company Commander Lieutenant Colonel Kamsar Harutyunian, Division Commander Mayor Aksel Grigorian, regiment Deputy Commander Mayor Haik Galstian, regiment Deputy Commander Captain Eduart Telian, a physician Lieutenant of Medical Service Armen Babayan, contract serviceman Sergeant Mher Ayvazian, contract serviceman Private Smbat Baghdassarian, serviceman Private Vahan Samsonian, contract serviceman Private Yurida Gabrielian, medical staffer Master Sergean Alik Hairapetian, serviceman Private Suren Nersissian, serviceman Junior Sergeant Vrezh Bznuni, serviceman Private Gevork Manukian.

The Combat Service Medal was awarded to the regiment Deputy Head of N military unit Captain Araik Poghossian, group Commander Lieutenant Robert Baghian, contract serviceman Private Rudik Malkhassian.

President Serzh Sargsyan thanked Soldiers of Fatherland and wished them safe term of duty.

“Officer and Soldiers,

You have once again showed what means the Armenian Soldier, who the Solder of Fatherland is. When it is necessary to fight, you become the most disciplined, the most ingenious, and the most combat ready troops. I said years ago that if we were forced to fight, today’s troops and officers will fight not less courageously than their fathers, their grandfathers, their older friends. You have proved that you are much more combat ready, much more courageous, and much more formidable. Times changes and war practices change too but the moral and psychological qualities remain the same. They remain the same and they prevail. Soldier has nothing to tell his foe; soldier speaks to the foe on the battlefield and glory to you and in your persons to all our officers and troops who have been able to make their statement. On those brutal days not a single soldier or officer ever left his combat position and fought selflessly to the very end. One cannot help but be proud of the soldier who after firing the last bullet and being wounded himself exploded a grenade to take with him the enemy soldiers too. What else can be called the soldier who fired a fire-gun and destroyed the enemy’s helicopter if not ingenuous? The soldier who at the battlefield was able to destroy five armored vehicles makes us proud. You have been doing you duty well. Painfully, war is a very cruel thing. Not everyone will see in their life the results of their work, the fruits of their labor and will not know that we are proud of them. Glory to all our soldiers and officers who fell during these days; glory to those who during these 25 years fell for our freedom and our independence. Life of every soldier, every officer is precious to us, while in Azerbaijan to satisfy their political ambitions, they are ready to send to death hundreds, thousands of soldiers. They teach their troops different things; they take pride in their troops who cut off ears of the dead enemy, that is, of our soldiers and officers; they see as quite normal when members of their special force – it’s impossible to call them soldiers – cut off the ears of 90-year old people. They cannot be called normal troops; rearing like that will make them no good. Such a style is inherent in terrorists’ line of conduct. Terrorist derives from “terror”, which means they want to terrorize us, to scare us but they will fail. We are scared of only one thing – to be not free, without honor. We will never be.
Glory to you, Soldiers of Fatherland, glory to our fallen, glory to our Army. I don’t doubt for an instant that we all, everyone at his own place will fulfill duties of the Soldiers of Fatherland and these duties are sacred. I wish you safe term of duty, even though in wartime such a wish sounds a little odd. Glory to your parents, to you families which gave you life and raised you, glory to your tutors. Thank you all,” said President Serzh Sargsyan.

Later, the Presidents of two Armenian Republics visited the Central Military Hospital of Stepanakert where serviceman Junior Sergean Vrezh Bznuni, who was awarded the Medal of Valor is being treated. The President of Armenia handed him his high state award, thanked him and wished a speedy recovery. At the military hospital, Presidents Serzh Sargsyan and Bako Sahakian visited also other servicemen treated here.

https://www.president.am/en/press-release/item/2016/04/19/President-Serzh-Sargsyan-working-visit-to-Artsakh/

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

So let's make one thing clear. Not a single grain of dirt will ever be given up.

This is the map of the Republic of Karabakh. We shouldn't even include Shahumyan in there until it's liberated. These are it's borders. If anyone thinks they should change, they can go join the dead Azeri commandos in the fields of Mardakert.

I personally see most of the mountainous chain East of Armenia part of the Armenian homeland with Nakhichevan. They can live in the valley in peace (if they can) with perpetually close borders.
In the west, up to lake Van should be returned, again with perpetual close borders till they start behaving like the Iranians. This is getting old being constantly massacred and claiming more Armenian territories. Enough is enough.

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Analyst: Nobody will ever allow bringing Russian troops to zone of Karabakh conflict

YEREVAN. - Nobody will ever allow bringing Russian troops to the zone of Karabakh conflict.

President of the Armenian center of Strategic and National Research, political analyst Manvel Sargsyan said the aforementioned, touching on the information disseminated by the Russian media outlets on the so-called “Russia plan” of Karabakh conflict settlement.

In his words, Russia wants to start a certain process on Karabakh conflict, since the OSCE Minsk Group didn’t propose anything specific. “Now Russia will most probably try to hold the closing of the meeting. I think this is a way to impact the sides to the conflict. If we recall, in an interview given to one of the Russian media outlets after his visit to Baku, the Russian PM Dmitry Medvedev, responded to a question on Karabakh, precisely noting that the problem has two solutions: everything remains the way it used to be – status quo for decades - or it is decided by military means,” Sargsyan noted.

It becomes clear from this that the disseminated information pursues exclusively political objective, the analyst said. “The issue doesn’t relate to a certain diplomatic process on the conflict settlement. Russia is actually trying to start a certain process, stemming from its own interests,” he stressed.

Responding to the query as to whether Russia can influence Armenia, the political analyst said: “It’s necessary to understand the purpose of the pressure. Nobody will ever allow bringing in Russian troops. Iran won’t calmly allow the presence of Russian troops on its border, will it?”

Touching on the issue as to why such information is disseminated exactly now, the expert said: “It would be strange if it hadn’t been disseminated right now. The military actions are stopped, the armies stand in front of each other. Apparently, everyone is waiting for a certain political decisions. And now Russia will try to begin a certain close process with the parties to the conflict through spreading such information.” In the analyst’s words, Russia has serious problems with Azerbaijan and Turkey. “Russia is trying to maximally capitalize on this war. Armenia is only now becoming a problem to Russia, since now Armenia realizes very well that Russia is solving its problems with Turkey and Azerbaijan at the expense of Armenia’s interests. And this will soon become into a big problem for Russia,” Manvel Sargsyan concluded.

According to the diplomatic sources of Russian media outlets, under the Russian plan, part of the territories should be returned to Azerbaijan. Besides, peacekeepers should be brought to the zone of conflict, refugees should be returned and Karabakh should be legitimize (i.e. ensure opening of its borders and restoration of its economic ties). Thereafter, once the dust settles, a referendum should be held on the region’s allegiance.

http://news.am/eng/news/323237.html

[HajiHabibli]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I personally see most of the mountainous chain East of Armenia part of the Armenian homeland with Nakhichevan. They can live in the valley in peace (if they can) with perpetually close borders.
In the west, up to lake Van should be returned, again with perpetual close borders till they start behaving like the Iranians. This is getting old being constantly massacred and claiming more Armenian territories. Enough is enough.

Can't agree more. I'm so sick and tired of our history being that of perpetual victimization. It really is enough.

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Հայաստանը պետք է կանխի Մինսկի խմբի ոչնչացումը

20 April 2016

Ապրիլի 21-22-ը ՌԴ արտաքին գործերի նախարար Սերգեյ Լավրովը պաշտոնական այց կկատարի Հայաստան: Ապրիլի 21-ին նախատեսվում է ակցիա , որը պայմանավորված է Լավրովի Հայաստան կատարելիք այցով: Քաղաքական վերլուծաբան Ստյոպա Սաֆարյանի դիտարկմամբ՝ մտահոգիչ երկու խնդիր կա, որի համար Լավրովը այցելում է Հայաստան. «Առաջին՝ փորձել վերակենդանացնել ՌԴ նախագահի հովանու ներքո եռակողմ ձևաչափը, որը, մենք համոզվեցինք, որ 2008թ-ից հետո որևէ բան չտվեց, ավելին, սպանեց Մինսկի խմբի գործունեույթունը: Այժմ պետք է հասկանանք, որ սցենարը կրկնվում է, և թերևս Ռուսաստանը մի կողմում թողնում է Մինսկի խմբի ֆորմալ գոյությունը և մասնակցությունը, բայց մյուս կողմում սկսում է եռակողմ հանդիպումների ձևաչափ, ու հանդիպումները տանում է դեպի փակուղի, դրանով, ըստ էության, կանխում է Մինսկի խմբի վերագործարկումը, մինչդեռ տարածաշրջանում խաղաղության ամրապնդման և կայունության համար այդ գործիքը չափազանց կենսական է եղել: Մենք տեսանք, որ երբ Ռուսաստանի նախագահի հովանու ներքո կազմակերպված հանդիպումները մտան փակուղի, դրանից հետո սկսվեց Ադրբեջանի սպառազինման գործընթացը և այն հանգեցրեց ապրիլյան 4-օրյա ճակատամարտին: Հետևաբար սա մի խնդիր է, որին չափազանց զգույշ պետք է վերաբերվել: Եթե անգամ մի կողմից ընդունենք, որ Հայաստանը եռակողմ հանդիպման հետ կապված դիմադրության ռեսուրսներ չունի, այնուամենայնիվ, Հայաստանը պետք է ամեն ինչ անի՝ թույլ չտալու համար ԵԱՀԿ Մինսկի խմբի ոչնչացումը, ինչպես դա տեղի ունեցավ 2008թ-ից հետո, մինչև 2011-2012թթ.: Երկրորդ անհանգստությունը, անշուշտ, պայմանավորված է այն առաջարկներով, որոնք բերվում են Երևան, այն այժմ ստացել է Դ. Մեդվեդևի պլան անվանումը»:

http://aiisa.am/arm/ourexperts/comment/333#sthash.Pr87k5L0.dpuf

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The Minsk group is composed of majority NATO members (US and France) who both have done the same amount as Russia, nothing. Dissolving the Minsk group however is a silly idea. All 3 of those countries have good relations with us and all they really want is a continuation of the status quo which is in our favor. All power to the Minsk group's existence which has enabled us to maintain the status quo for 20 years under the guise of perpetual peace negotiations. It's like the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, it has been there for decades without any progress but the fact that it exists keeps the status quo alive. If Minsk group collapses, what it will be replaced with can only be unfavorable to us. And if it doesn't get replaced at all, well then there's no checks and balances and Azeri micro-aggressions will turn macro like April 2-5.

Serzh Sargsyan won't give up any territory. This is the man who along with Kocharyan forced LTP to resign because he was going to make territorial concessions. He very well knows where he will end up if he tries a stunt like this. As for peacekeepers, it won't happen. There is no incentive to accept peacekeepers and despite what your local pro-West pundit will tell you, both Armenia and Azerbaijan aren't Russian puppets but are actually more autonomous than they get credited for. But in the event that peacekeepers are introduced, it's not necessarily a negative (assuming border doesn't change). If anything, since Azerbaijan is the aggressor, introduction of peacekeepers will force it to behave at the risk of shooting Russian soldiers dead. We wouldn't want that, would we?