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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Artsakh: A Target for Russian Military Blackmail


    The Russian Embassy in Armenia has not refuted a story making the rounds in the local press that on May 9 the embassy’s second secretary declared that since Armenia hasn’t recognized Artsakh no Russian weapons could be sent there.

    It cannot be ruled out that the embassy isn’t hastening to respond to this story since it really doesn’t give a damn about public opinion in Armenia and those perceptions that can give rise to a story rife with sub-contexts.

    However, it is just as likely that the story is true and the embassy has no basis to refute it. On the other hand, the embassy just wanted to get a certain message across to the Armenian public in a non-official fashion.

    It would seem that the embassy is prompting Armenia to recognize the NKR, presenting it as a precondition for providing arms to Armenia and counterbalancing Azerbaijani armaments. In reality, however, the sub-text of this statement is that Russia cannot or doesn’t want to supply Armenia with arms since it isn’t certain that the weapons will not wind up in Artsakh.

    The fact is that Russia is clearly demanding that Armenia doesn’t recognize the NKR. Last week, the government of Armenia backed the conclusion of a bill recognizing the independence of the NKR. This was little more than saying that it would recognize Artsakh if external factors required such a step. In response, Russian presidential spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated that he hoped the sides wouldn’t take steps that would upset the delicate peace in the conflict zone. Russian foreign minister Dmitry Lavrov added that he had been told in Yerevan that the status of Nagorno-Karabakh would have to be resolved as part of a comprehensive settlement and not unilaterally. Thus, Lavrov openly said Yerevan had promised never to unilaterally recognize the NKR.

    What is essential isn’t whether Yerevan gave Lavrov such assurances, or whether the Russian foreign minister is merely pressuring Yerevan not to go that route by making such a statement. What’s essential is that, on the one hand, the demand not to recognize the NKR is clearly being made of Armenia, while on the other hand, the demand is being made not to provide Artsakh with weapons received or purchased from Russia.

    In other words, the Russian Embassy in Armenia is explaining, in a peculiar way, that Armenia isn’t receiving weapons so that they cannot be used in the Karabakh war and will not receive arms while such a risk exists.

    Moscow’s real concern is based on two factors. The first is the warning, expressed by Yerevan, that immediately after Armenia recognized the NKR it will most probably sign a bilateral security treaty with it and will clash with Azerbaijan in order to guarantee the safety of Artsakh and its residents. Moscow realizes that if Armenia goes this route Yerevan might demand that Russia offer its assistance based on various military cooperation treaties. This eventuality is rife with risks of a new kind of military square-off between Russia and Turkey. So that Armenia doesn’t go down this path, Russia is demanding that Armenia doesn’t recognize the NKR and that it doesn’t transfer any Russian arms to Stepanakert.

    The second factor are the various agreements that Russia has with Azerbaijan. These make it understandable why Russia isn’t quick to supply Armenia with the arms that Yerevan purchased with the $200 million Russian credit.

    In March of this year, just a few days before the four-day war, when Russia published the entire list of the weapons that Armenia had purchased, a list considered secret, Azerbaijan sent a protest note to Moscow, demanding that it give guarantees that those weapons wouldn’t turn up on its ‘occupied lands’, that’s to say in Nagorno-Karabakh. In response, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs merely declared that Russia was maintaining the balance of power between the two sides and that Russia would never take steps that would harm its relations with Azerbaijan.

    Immediately afterwards Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dimitri Rogozin made a surprise visit to Baku, allegedly to discuss with top Azerbaijani officials the issue of paying back the debts accumulated for military equipment received from Russia.

    On April 7, in Yerevan, Armenian Prime Minister Hovik Abrahamyan asked that Russian PM Medvedev, intercede so that Russian military manufacturers accelerate the provision of armaments envisaged by the credit treaty.

    This made it clear that Russia didn’t want to meet it treaty obligations regarding the provision of armaments and that Rogozin traveled to Baku not to collect any debts, but to assure Aliyev , who was planning to attack Artsakh, that none of those arms had arrived in Armenia and thus, that they hadn’t been sent to Karabakh.

    Thus, Russia assured Baku that the Armenians didn’t have the military equipment needed to respond to any military moves made by Azerbaijan. In other words, Moscow didn’t take into account its strategic ally relations with Armenia, but rather the demands of the protest note sent by Azerbaijan.

    For the second time, the Russian Embassy in Armenia has assured Baku that not only is that military equipment not in Artsakh but that Moscow perhaps might not provide Armenia with those armaments for as long as Yerevan does not back down from its threats to go to war with Azerbaijan in order to protect Artsakh.

    This directly signifies that Russia’s actual demand from Yerevan is that does not get involved in any possible Azerbaijani military operations against the NKR; at least until the time that Moscow finds it necessary to grant such permission to Yerevan.

    This can be called military blackmail.

    In Moscow, however, they haven’t reckoned that this is pointless blackmail because, in Armenian and in Artsakh, the conflict is seen not only as a Karabakh issue but one of survival.

    Thus, the greater the extent to which Russia exerts such blackmail, the quicker the process becomes that Moscow will lose Armenia, in every sense.

    Comment


    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Can someone please explain what are the pros and cons of recognizing Artsakh? What's the difference between what we have now vs then?

      Comment


      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        Originally posted by Federate View Post
        More [criminal] heads rolling.

        Ձերբակալվել է ՀՀ ԶՈւ սպառազինության վարչության ավտոծառայության պետը

        Posted on Մայիս 12, 2016 by Հասմիկ Մելիքսեթյան | Leave a comment

        ՀՀ քննչական կոմիտեի զինվորական քննչական գլխավոր վարչության ՀԿԳ քննության վարչությունում հարուցվել է քրեական գործ՝ պետի կամ պաշտոնատար անձի կողմից ծառայության նկատմամբ անփույթ վերաբերմունք դրսևորելու դեպքի առթիվ։ Նշված գործի շրջանակներում մայիսի 11-ին ձերբակալվել է ՀՀ ԶՈւ սպառազինության վարչության ավտոծառայության պետ, գնդապետ Դավիթ Աբրահամյանը։ Այս մասին տեղեկացնում է Քնչական կոմիտեի կայքը։

        Ինչպես նշվում է հաղորդագրության մեջ, նախաքննությունը շարունակվում է։ Քրեական գործի քննության շահերից ելնելով` այլ մանրամասներ նախաքննության այս փուլում հրապարակման ենթակա չեն։

        http://razm.info/83437
        what's his role exactly?

        Comment


        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          Հյուսիսային առաջնագիծ






          Comment


          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            Originally posted by armnuke View Post
            Artsakh: A Target for Russian Military Blackmail


            The Russian Embassy in Armenia has not refuted a story making the rounds in the local press that on May 9 the embassy’s second secretary declared that since Armenia hasn’t recognized Artsakh no Russian weapons could be sent there.

            It cannot be ruled out that the embassy isn’t hastening to respond to this story since it really doesn’t give a damn about public opinion in Armenia and those perceptions that can give rise to a story rife with sub-contexts.

            However, it is just as likely that the story is true and the embassy has no basis to refute it. On the other hand, the embassy just wanted to get a certain message across to the Armenian public in a non-official fashion.

            It would seem that the embassy is prompting Armenia to recognize the NKR, presenting it as a precondition for providing arms to Armenia and counterbalancing Azerbaijani armaments. In reality, however, the sub-text of this statement is that Russia cannot or doesn’t want to supply Armenia with arms since it isn’t certain that the weapons will not wind up in Artsakh.

            The fact is that Russia is clearly demanding that Armenia doesn’t recognize the NKR. Last week, the government of Armenia backed the conclusion of a bill recognizing the independence of the NKR. This was little more than saying that it would recognize Artsakh if external factors required such a step. In response, Russian presidential spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated that he hoped the sides wouldn’t take steps that would upset the delicate peace in the conflict zone. Russian foreign minister Dmitry Lavrov added that he had been told in Yerevan that the status of Nagorno-Karabakh would have to be resolved as part of a comprehensive settlement and not unilaterally. Thus, Lavrov openly said Yerevan had promised never to unilaterally recognize the NKR.

            What is essential isn’t whether Yerevan gave Lavrov such assurances, or whether the Russian foreign minister is merely pressuring Yerevan not to go that route by making such a statement. What’s essential is that, on the one hand, the demand not to recognize the NKR is clearly being made of Armenia, while on the other hand, the demand is being made not to provide Artsakh with weapons received or purchased from Russia.

            In other words, the Russian Embassy in Armenia is explaining, in a peculiar way, that Armenia isn’t receiving weapons so that they cannot be used in the Karabakh war and will not receive arms while such a risk exists.

            Moscow’s real concern is based on two factors. The first is the warning, expressed by Yerevan, that immediately after Armenia recognized the NKR it will most probably sign a bilateral security treaty with it and will clash with Azerbaijan in order to guarantee the safety of Artsakh and its residents. Moscow realizes that if Armenia goes this route Yerevan might demand that Russia offer its assistance based on various military cooperation treaties. This eventuality is rife with risks of a new kind of military square-off between Russia and Turkey. So that Armenia doesn’t go down this path, Russia is demanding that Armenia doesn’t recognize the NKR and that it doesn’t transfer any Russian arms to Stepanakert.

            The second factor are the various agreements that Russia has with Azerbaijan. These make it understandable why Russia isn’t quick to supply Armenia with the arms that Yerevan purchased with the $200 million Russian credit.

            In March of this year, just a few days before the four-day war, when Russia published the entire list of the weapons that Armenia had purchased, a list considered secret, Azerbaijan sent a protest note to Moscow, demanding that it give guarantees that those weapons wouldn’t turn up on its ‘occupied lands’, that’s to say in Nagorno-Karabakh. In response, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs merely declared that Russia was maintaining the balance of power between the two sides and that Russia would never take steps that would harm its relations with Azerbaijan.

            Immediately afterwards Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dimitri Rogozin made a surprise visit to Baku, allegedly to discuss with top Azerbaijani officials the issue of paying back the debts accumulated for military equipment received from Russia.

            On April 7, in Yerevan, Armenian Prime Minister Hovik Abrahamyan asked that Russian PM Medvedev, intercede so that Russian military manufacturers accelerate the provision of armaments envisaged by the credit treaty.

            This made it clear that Russia didn’t want to meet it treaty obligations regarding the provision of armaments and that Rogozin traveled to Baku not to collect any debts, but to assure Aliyev , who was planning to attack Artsakh, that none of those arms had arrived in Armenia and thus, that they hadn’t been sent to Karabakh.

            Thus, Russia assured Baku that the Armenians didn’t have the military equipment needed to respond to any military moves made by Azerbaijan. In other words, Moscow didn’t take into account its strategic ally relations with Armenia, but rather the demands of the protest note sent by Azerbaijan.

            For the second time, the Russian Embassy in Armenia has assured Baku that not only is that military equipment not in Artsakh but that Moscow perhaps might not provide Armenia with those armaments for as long as Yerevan does not back down from its threats to go to war with Azerbaijan in order to protect Artsakh.

            This directly signifies that Russia’s actual demand from Yerevan is that does not get involved in any possible Azerbaijani military operations against the NKR; at least until the time that Moscow finds it necessary to grant such permission to Yerevan.

            This can be called military blackmail.

            In Moscow, however, they haven’t reckoned that this is pointless blackmail because, in Armenian and in Artsakh, the conflict is seen not only as a Karabakh issue but one of survival.

            Thus, the greater the extent to which Russia exerts such blackmail, the quicker the process becomes that Moscow will lose Armenia, in every sense.

            http://hetq.am/eng/news/67910/artsak...Ieq52A.twitter
            Also what's not being said ... The theft and butchery by the turc both east and west is to be forgotten . All the land stolen by the turc is theirs to keep, no matter that they murdered us to get it and continue to murder us to retain it.
            Russia does not recognize our legitimate claim to our land but does recognize the turcs claim to all they stole by murder.
            The trip to Baku by Russian govt was to assure the turc that Russia considers their illigitemit claims to any land they stole from the rightful heirs of the land as ligitimet or OK.
            Russia is selling us down the road for their geopolitical benefit. The turcs to east and west are more important to Russia than us.
            As I said before, for the right offer, Russia will make a deal with either turc to our demise.
            The integrity of Russia extends as far as their desire for themselves and no further.
            We are virtually inconsequential. We are also virtually by ourselves.
            USA and Europe also court the turcs eagerly to our demise. We don't count to them either.
            All of them will and do back the murdering thief be cause it benefits them and their interests.
            None have enough integrity to form one (1) honest man.
            We stand alone.
            I think it's better to stand alone than to stand with any of them.
            Better to go down as as honest man than to live as a conniving , murdering thief.

            Comment


            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Originally posted by Shant03 View Post
              No, what would be the point of that?


              Can someone explain the purpose of the weird navy seal soldiers doing weird things like breaking bricks and doing back flips?
              Special forces body limitation.......in battle the spirit comes out automatically.

              By not recognizing Artsakh the weapons shipped there does not count towards Armenia's maximum international military hardware.
              By not recognizing Artsakh the president has a ace up the sleeve. What ever Artsakh does has nothing to do with Armenia....however Armenia can recognize Artsakh at any time when Armenia's military is needed against the Azeri Turks and Muslim brothers.
              By not recognizing Artsakh Armenia negotiates to include Artsakh in the peace process since Azeris are facing NKR, a republic. Who gives a sh!t its not recognize......its still kicking Turkic Azeri's ass. You need to speak to Armenian Spartans.
              B0zkurt Hunter

              Comment


              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                Originally posted by Artashes View Post
                Also what's not being said ... The theft and butchery by the turc both east and west is to be forgotten . All the land stolen by the turc is theirs to keep, no matter that they murdered us to get it and continue to murder us to retain it.
                Russia does not recognize our legitimate claim to our land but does recognize the turcs claim to all they stole by murder.
                The trip to Baku by Russian govt was to assure the turc that Russia considers their illigitemit claims to any land they stole from the rightful heirs of the land as ligitimet or OK.
                Russia is selling us down the road for their geopolitical benefit. The turcs to east and west are more important to Russia than us.
                As I said before, for the right offer, Russia will make a deal with either turc to our demise.
                The integrity of Russia extends as far as their desire for themselves and no further.
                We are virtually inconsequential. We are also virtually by ourselves.
                USA and Europe also court the turcs eagerly to our demise. We don't count to them either.
                All of them will and do back the murdering thief be cause it benefits them and their interests.
                None have enough integrity to form one (1) honest man.
                We stand alone.
                I think it's better to stand alone than to stand with any of them.
                Better to go down as as honest man than to live as a conniving , murdering thief.
                Ok, if both the West and Russia equally don't care about us why should we join all of Russia's unions which have no benefit..

                Comment


                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Թալիշի դպրոցում եմ տեսել այս կոչը։ Գրադի արկից ավերված դասարանի գետնին էր ընկած՝ նստարանների տակ... Երկու օր առաջ Երևանի Շիրվանզադեի անվ. միջնակարգ դպրոցում էի։ Տղայիս դասարանում երեխեքի համար բաց դաս էր՝ «Հաղթանակներն սկսվում են ընտանիքից» թեմայով։ Իսկ ահա Թալիշի դպրոցում էլ այլ սկզբի մասին էին մտածում։ Երկու իրականություն, որոնք այնքան նման ու այնքան տարբեր են իրարից։


                  Դիպուկահարի աջակցությամբ առաջացանք: Նռնակներով ոչնչացրինք հատուկջոկատայիններին: Մտանք դիրք: Չկարողացանք երկար պահել, տանկեր շարժվեցին մեզ վրա: Մեզնից մի քանի մետր այն կողմ էլ հակատանկայիններն էին: Վեց տանկ շարքից հանեցին: Վերադարձանք մեր դիրք ու այդտեղից շարունակեցինք կռիվը մինչեւ ապրիլի 4-ի գիշերը: Թշնամին չդիմացավ, ետ քաշվեց: Տասնյակ զոհեր ունեին: Հոգնել էին: Հաղթեցի՛նք:


                  Երբ աշխատանքից ազատվեցին Զինված ուժերի բարձրաստիճան երեք զինվորականները, անմիջապես առաջ եկավ մի հարց՝ իսկ նրանք պատժվելո՞ւ են։ Այդ հարցը հիմա էլ օդից կախված է


                  Comment


                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    Երբ Սերժ Սարգսյանը ապրիլի 2-ին խոսում էր Արցախում 18 զոհի և 35 վիրավորի մասին, շատերը չհավատացին: Ես էլ չհավատացի: Սարգսյանի ելույթից որոշ ժամանակ անց Ստեփանակերտում ունեի տեղեկություն, որ հայկական կողմի կորուստները՝ զինվորական, քաղաքացիական, 104 է: Այդ տեղեկությունը, համոզված էի, որ ճշմարտությունն է կամ՝ շատ մոտ է ճշմարտությանը: Սակայն դրա մասին չգրեցի ոչ իմ հոդվածներում, ոչ […]

                    Comment


                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Originally posted by armnuke View Post
                      Ok, if both the West and Russia equally don't care about us why should we join all of Russia's unions which have no benefit..
                      The question is why should we? Or why did we?
                      If it's why should we, hmm, well, at this point in time we have two choices, (1) west, or (2) Russian.
                      As I stated repeatedly , the west is like a cancer and once entangled we got corporate a s a pervasive control with every breath we take. Look at all they've touched !!
                      Russia eliminates the wrests cancerous machinations and is less insidious . By that I mean russi is more blatant and less sophisticated entrapment. It's easier to pull out of Russian Union without bleeding to death.
                      Wit h Russia , they have to use blunt force or one one can separate from them without suffering the penalty of the highly entwined sophisticated economic entrapment of the west.
                      But you ask "why should we". I'm not sure we "should" join. It's more like we aren't able to stand alone.
                      The pressure on us is tremendous. Blockaded by two hominoid type subhumans and Georgia that grown southwards throughout our ?friendly? history with them. I'm going to refrain from Iran except to mention abbas.
                      As long as the 50 or so blood sucking Armenian family's continue to utilize Hayastan as their personal ticket to elitism we cannot stand alone.
                      Our criminals are keeping us dependent some foreign by their (our own) self centered actions.
                      We have been blessed with the brains and steadfast work ethic but unfortunately we've been cursed by our production of "shark" like individuals .
                      Democracy is a sham and none care about anyone other than themselves. That's why UrMistake surprised me with his expressed consideration of the enslaved people's the azer turc is brutalizing. Who else cares about anyone other than himself, and then some Armenian guy says " don't forget the other oppressed.
                      Of course that Armenian guy wasn't a god damned oligarch.

                      Comment

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