Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Georgia develops new GMM-120 mortar system

http://defence-blog.com/army/georgia-develops-new-gmm-120-mortar-system.html

[Shant03]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Not true at all, his ties to the Russian Generals are showing.

Agreed, Samvel's timing is very suspect. Anybody who has been following what's been going on especially since the 4 day war can clearly see a difference in our relationship with Russia. While I am of course speculating, I would go far enough to say Samvel is being sent to reaffirm Armenia's commitment with Russia.

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You know what I hate about us Armenians, were very doubtful every time something bad happens to us we feel doubtful, we should not let our enemies think we are weak because they will use it to there own advantage. This problem has been with us since 1991, we should be proud of how much we have accomplish rather than sorrow for the old days, if you want some examples here.

We showed that 2 borders closed isn't going to stop us improveing, we fought an enemy that was 15 times stronger than us yet we destroyed them, we treat our minorities better while our Caucasian neighbors treat them as 2nd class citizens and force them in a fight they do not want to be involved, and here we are thinking our country has a no future.

What I'm trying to say is that if we have problems we express and fix them not express and go buy a ticket to a foreign country and think all hope is lost.

I agree, we are VERY pessimistic. But all people who have experienced genocide have. Its natural and it will be shaken off once our nation begins its slow recovery.

Georgia develops new GMM-120 mortar system

http://defence-blog.com/army/georgia...ar-system.html

Georgian defense industry seems to be developing quite well, just not their products. There is a similar system on the Stryker chassis. It comes off as entirely pointless, it just makes the mortar harder to conceal and turns the team into a giant target. It does increase set up speed and allows the crew to move about. The Georgian Army is experienced, I'm just they have a use for it.

Why don't we try to purchase weapons from Georgia? Our peoples might have great relations at the moments but the states certainly do.

Agreed, Samvel's timing is very suspect. Anybody who has been following what's been going on especially since the 4 day war can clearly see a difference in our relationship with Russia. While I am of course speculating, I would go far enough to say Samvel is being sent to reaffirm Armenia's commitment with Russia.

Perhaps he was sent here from Moscow in order to "reassure" Armenians? Russia has been playing alot of PR games in Armenia lately. They are using a face Armenians can trust in order to reassure the public.

If Russia wants to keep our trust, then they need to step up the arms supplies.

The 2016 parade is coming up soon, in both Armenia and Azerbaijan. Lets hope we see Iskander on the 21st

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

ՀԱՊԿ ՕԱՀՈւ «Կոբալտ 2016» համատեղ վարժանքները

Against who will all this police training be used? Azerbaijan or Turkey? Or maybe a bank robbery?

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Against who will all this police training be used? Azerbaijan or Turkey? Or maybe a bank robbery?

Protestors

Most of these OMON guys are 90s era thugs who worked for figures like Vazgen. Just went around intimidating the poor, people trying to start businesses, Molokans, etc

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We acquired the SCUDs in 1995 and showed it in 2003.

Iskanders will be shown in 2020

[Artashes]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I will breakdown Samvel's arguments and give my opinion on them





Not true at all, his ties to the Russian Generals are showing. Russia is pursuing is fruitless endeavor at reintegrating Azerbaijan into their sphere. Azerbaijan is GONE. It is a Turkish puppet state and has been since that Elchibey. There are even rumors that the Azerbaijani military and interior ministry are controlled by Turkish Generals.



This is obvious. Our government got too comfortable with the status quo and let their guard down.



They are unwilling to compromise because they have the technological and numerical upperhand. The oil revenue and support from Turkey have allowed the Azerbaijanis to technologically modernize their armed forces to a ridiculous level. They are currently a lightyear ahead of us in terms of technological and this IS NOT to be underestimated.



This is the part where many get confused.

Armenia is lacking severely in these areas:

Armored vehicles (Severely lacking; Technological disparity)

Self-propelled artillery (severely lacking)

Air superiority/Multirole fighters (severely lacking

Armenia is superior to Azerbaijan when it comes to ballistic missile forces. We simply have way more which can overwhelm their air defense network. The acquisition of Iskander would only strengthen this.

Armenia has also closed a very important gap - MLRS

The upcoming acquisition of TOS-1A and Smerch MLRS has fully closed this disparity. This is a success achieved in the arms race

We need to begin full-scale modernization of our main battle tanks and we need to begin acquiring more modern IFVs.



I 100% agree. Ceding some parts of the buffer zone back to the Azerbaijanis, which would allow their refugees to return, would be not only the right thing to do but the smart thing to do. We should retain Karvachar and Lachin, as those are vital to Armenian national and water security along with retaining NK itself. Aghdam, Fuzili, Zangilan, etc should be given back to Azerbaijan. These regions are nothing but desolate ruins and would become and economic burden to develop again. No one lives there as well. I know in the past 120 years, we have lost a lot - too much. Sometimes you have to compromise and Samvel is right here. Solving our problems with Azerbaijan peacefully would also allow us on focusing more of our effort on regaining regions like Kars, Ardahan and Mt. Ararat. We should have made claims to those lands yesterday....Things like the BTC pipeline would become a non-issue.

How I see things

Nice map.
I disagree on giving back any buffer zone and also disagree on returning azer turc to those lands.
All that land was stolen by murder. The azer turc can have the right of return to the nomad steppe land or Altai region in the Far East. Any return to stolen land as if it belonged to them is sending thieves the wrong message.
Don't care what the world thinks as they only care for themselves.
The land you advocate giving back allows an unrepentant butcher to claim what was originally stolen. It also disrupts our physical land integrity.
The azer turc is not going to change (for sure) and no land given to them will bring peace to us --- NONE ---.
Keep all land recovered with the threat (real) of taking more land if the monkey ass azer turc continues its threats. They will continue and only --- ONLY --- a strong hammer will they understand.
--- nothing else ---
Absolutely nothing else will they understand.
They're god damned hominoid said.

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We acquired the SCUDs in 1995 and showed it in 2003.

Iskanders will be shown in 2020

2020 is a bit too far away hahaha. We've been in negotiations with Russia since 2014, officially since July 2015. Iskander-M exports were officially permitted this year. Don't surprised if you see them in the parade. However, it all depends on timing of the deliveries.

Nice map.
I disagree on giving back any buffer zone and also disagree on returning azer turc to those lands.
All that land was stolen by murder. The azer turc can have the right of return to the nomad steppe land or Altai region in the Far East. Any return to stolen land as if it belonged to them is sending thieves the wrong message.
Don't care what the world thinks as they only care for themselves.
The land you advocate giving back allows an unrepentant butcher to claim what was originally stolen. It also disrupts our physical land integrity.
The azer turc is not going to change (for sure) and no land given to them will bring peace to us --- NONE ---.
Keep all land recovered with the threat (real) of taking more land if the monkey ass azer turc continues its threats. They will continue and only --- ONLY --- a strong hammer will they understand.
--- nothing else ---
Absolutely nothing else will they understand.
They're god damned hominoid said.

Ceding territory back to Azerbaijan is a much better deal than the "phased" settlement the OSCE has in mind.

If we were to go to war, right now. It wouldn't end well for anyone, but the Azerbaijanis dont know that. Their arms purchases have given them immense confidence. We need to move up in the armament ladder and intimidate them back to the negotiating table. I want to go back to complete indifference towards Azeris. I never cared for them and never will. It is the Turk to our West that is the problem that must be dealt with, who currently occupies nearly half of the Republic of Armenia.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Whats up guys, I'm the guy who did all the major editing on the Wiki article and I could use some help in gathering reliable sources. Thanks mods for approving me as well!!!



Wow, I just got through watching the video right before you posted it. Its important to note the range of the weapon. It looks like it was designed to be used in frontline trenches, to pound enemy fortifications.

Recently, there have been alot of pictures circulating the web that I have not seen posted on here before. There is a new iteration of the K-3 shown in this video and in many others before.

http://i.imgur.com/kucNJMh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XzHvRa0.png

http://i.imgur.com/acVbb1j.png

I'd also like to address some of the previous comments made by users regarding corrupt officials. Lets all try and understand something, the vast majority of the dedicated "heroes" of the 90s were corrupt in someway. Especially Vazgen, whose gangs were nothing but a bunch of thugs stealing from people who didn't even have electricity.

To the people who are calling for executions: That is exactly what the Turk wants. We must always remember, that our economic situation is not caused by our ill-minded countrymen but by the Turk who blockades us on our East and West. Most of the Karabakh elite who rule Armenia are some of the most experienced leadership the country has, even if they are corrupt during peacetime. Killing them off in political purges, much like the Stalinist purges of the Soviet military before WW2, is in the Turk's interest and will leave the country extremely vulnerable. There is also evidence suggesting many of the corrupt officials are simply fillers who abuse the position during peace-time. Look at the recent resignations. War is coming, our leadership is calling in our most experienced and dropping the temps.

The economic blockade set on Armenia does not exist to prevent Armenia from participating in the arms race with Azerbaijan, and does not exist to cripple the economy (solely). It exists primarily to incite anti-government sentiment and political destablization. Take away a man's paycheck and he is more likely to become desperate and reckless, and more likely to participate in protests he does not fully understand.

The best way to counter corruption in our government is not political purging or execution, as that exposes weakness. The best way is to democratically implement barriers to economic kickbacks for government officials. Bring them back to honesty, as the skills many of them have are invaluable in these times.

Also, I'd advise against making pseudo-terroristic threats of violence and internet warriorism, makes this place look like a looney house.

There is nothing terrorist about calls for change of rulers.
There will never be any democratic reforms passing that change anything from current situation because of leadership that exists. They will block and derail any movement for their livelihood.
Also, it helps to remember that current leadership and oligarchs came to power using means that were nothing short of terrorism.
And the last, calling for military take over is not a terrorism, it is a practice used in many countries in history, where leadership is so corrupt or rotten that is leading country to destruction, untill a true national government is formed.
Turkey in 1920's and after is one example where military saved it from collapse many times.
I assure you, current leadership is leading our country to destruction. It has been skimming our patriotism and care for Artsakh for those 22 years in pocketing our last Luma's. We cannot wait untill Azeris manage a real victory to see that our leadership now is nothing more than leaches, because by then it will be too late.
We must have a change now.
And this change is not to take money from rich etc.. It is to stop those people from sucking Armenia so dry that it cannot stand against challenges.
Last thing Lori Jan. The blockade has not stopped those leaches from getting rich or creating export import monopolies and robbing people off. There is no real blockade anyway and we are talking only one with turkey. Nobody knows how lifting of Turkish blockade will affect us. It is not guaranteed positive.
As far as I can see there has not been any shortage related to blockade in past 18-20 years. It's just controlled rubbery by oligarchs working with officials.
Scaring people with blockade does not scare off anymore.
The leaches have embedded themselfs in government so deep and vastly it is very clear they will not let go as long as they can and with any means as they can. Nobody will change. President is part of it too.
So only military can restore some sence. It is the only structure that keeps Armenia standing anyway.
So let's not scare or mislead anybody about military's role. People have to get used to the idea of their last resort.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Ceding some parts of the buffer zone back to the Azerbaijanis, which would allow their refugees to return, would be not only the right thing to do but the smart thing to do. We should retain Karvachar and Lachin, as those are vital to Armenian national and water security along with retaining NK itself. Aghdam, Fuzili, Zangilan, etc should be given back to Azerbaijan. These regions are nothing but desolate ruins and would become and economic burden to develop again. No one lives there as well. I know in the past 120 years, we have lost a lot - too much. Sometimes you have to compromise and Samvel is right here. Solving our problems with Azerbaijan peacefully would also allow us on focusing more of our effort on regaining regions like Kars, Ardahan and Mt. Ararat. We should have made claims to those lands yesterday....Things like the BTC pipeline would become a non-issue.

How I see things

You are seeing things the wrong way. turks should first agree on giving back Kars, Ardalan and Mt. Ararat before dispensing our safety and security.