Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[ASALA2116]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I like NATO uniforms too, although our new Italian camo is nice and looks great. But the hats these generals wear makes me forget the year we're in right now. Very ugly stuff that has to be changed.

You're right the hats need to go. They need to start wearing slouch hats.

[ASALA2116]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenia has lost key strategic heights and these territories be reclaimed."
Armenian Major General Arkady Ter-Tadevosyan, nicknamed “Commandos,” has acknowledged that the territories liberated by the Azerbaijani army in early April 2016 are of great strategic importance.
In a statement to Armenia News news.am, he stressed that Armenia has lost key strategic heights and that these territories must be reclaimed.
According to the major general, none of the necessary steps has been taken.
“To cover up this fact, now they say those territories are not very strategic. However, those heights are of huge strategic importance to us. We need to think about reclaiming those heights for the residents of Talysh, Mardakert, and Madagiz to live in safety. Of course, our MPs voice their statements on the instructions of the leadership. That’s very sad. We have lost a lot and because of those heights we continue to lose more. No one lives in Talysh now. Mardakert, a major Karabakh city, is coming under fire. For people to return to their homes, we need to take back those heights,” he added.
News.Az

I don't believe most things coming from a Turks mouth but this is what we were talking about before.. those heights are important to us. A military operation needs to be talked about.

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I agree that we should abandon these Soviet/Russian military traditions and uniforms, and begin reinstating Armenian military traditions and dress. Whats challenging about this is the fact that so many of the traditional dress in the Caucasus is shared between all the nations. It would difficult to find something that stood out. I think making the փափախ standard is out of the question?

“To cover up this fact, now they say those territories are not very strategic. However, those heights are of huge strategic importance to us. We need to think about reclaiming those heights for the residents of Talysh, Mardakert, and Madagiz to live in safety. Of course, our MPs voice their statements on the instructions of the leadership. That’s very sad. We have lost a lot and because of those heights we continue to lose more. No one lives in Talysh now. Mardakert, a major Karabakh city, is coming under fire. For people to return to their homes, we need to take back those heights,” he added.

News.az has a history of misquoting Kommandos and many other Armenian officials. Its a Turk propaganda website, take it with a massive grain of salt.

If this is true, then we do need to conduct a military operation to seize those positions. The territory they allegedly took in the Northeast is part of the NK oblast itself and overlooks populated areas. This is unacceptable, the downplaying of this loss by our leaders is somewhat criminal.

However, I dont know what Kommandos is talking about when speaks of Martakert. It is closer to the lowlands and south of the heights that were seized. Its already in range of their artillery. Pretty confusing.

[HajiHabibli]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenia has lost key strategic heights and these territories be reclaimed."
Armenian Major General Arkady Ter-Tadevosyan, nicknamed “Commandos,” has acknowledged that the territories liberated by the Azerbaijani army in early April 2016 are of great strategic importance.
In a statement to Armenia News news.am, he stressed that Armenia has lost key strategic heights and that these territories must be reclaimed.
According to the major general, none of the necessary steps has been taken.
“To cover up this fact, now they say those territories are not very strategic. However, those heights are of huge strategic importance to us. We need to think about reclaiming those heights for the residents of Talysh, Mardakert, and Madagiz to live in safety. Of course, our MPs voice their statements on the instructions of the leadership. That’s very sad. We have lost a lot and because of those heights we continue to lose more. No one lives in Talysh now. Mardakert, a major Karabakh city, is coming under fire. For people to return to their homes, we need to take back those heights,” he added.
News.Az

I don't believe most things coming from a Turks mouth but this is what we were talking about before.. those heights are important to us. A military operation needs to be talked about.

If you can post the Armenian source then we do need to talk about it.

[ASALA2116]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I remember Commandos saying that. But here's an interesting read I stumbled across.

Land Debate: Loss of “unimportant” territory makes life in Karabakh village unsafe
May 24, 2016


Photo: Sara Khojoyan/ArmeniaNow.com
As the debate about whether the territories lost by the Armenian military in the brief war with Azerbaijan in Nagorno Karabakh in early April goes on in Armenia, hundreds of displaced residents of a village situated close to the restive line of contact in the northeastern direction cannot return to their homes because of the altered military positions.

Only military men are now left in the once thriving village of Talish, which was the scene of some of the fiercest battles between defending Armenians and attacking Azerbaijanis in the April 2-5 clashes. Practically none of the 500 or so residents of the community who fled the hostilities last month have returned to their homes where they no longer feel safe.

Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan admitted earlier this month that Karabakh lost 800 out of 800,000 hectares of its “security zone” in clashes with Azerbaijan in April. The high ground over Talish is one of the areas from where Armenians withdrew under the Azeri onslaught. The Azeri positions are now only within a kilometer from the village, making the local school and some recently built houses soft targets.


The locals are now hesitating as to whether they should restore what was damaged in the military operations or even return to their homes at all. “The fate of the village is uncertain. It’ll be bad if it turns out that April 2 was the last day in the history of a 100-year-old village,” says Sos Petrosyan, a 43-year-old resident of Talish.

Petrosyan, a former serviceman who worked as a mathematics and physics teacher at Talish’s school during the last six years, says he took his wife and sons to his mother’s place in Armenia before deciding to return. What he found upon return, however, was an abandoned community.

“Restoring Talish won’t be hard if the authorities decide and ensure security at the borders. There will be both money and people who will want to participate in this rehabilitation work,” says Petrosyan. “But no one cares about what is going to happen to these people.”

Many people in Karabakh these days are also angered by the attitude of some politicians in Armenia, including President Sargsyan, who argue that the territories lost in the war are of no “strategic and tactical importance”. They think that such statements make meaningless the deaths of more than 100 people for that land.

Defense Minister Seyran Ohanyan tried to do some damage control, stating in Yerevan on Monday that the land lost by Armenians in early April is part of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic’s territory under the country’s Constitution. “These territories cannot be forgotten as we do not forget about all our historical territories,” he said, stopping short of describing the lost territories as “strategically unimportant”.

Yerevan-based political analyst Levon Shirinyan believes that, on the contrary, the territories lost to Azerbaijan are really important.

“Now I want to ask again our Defense Ministry: if the Azeris start military operations again, won’t it be easier for them to move forward because, for example, the Lele Tepe high ground is in their hands?” the analyst queried at a press conference on Monday.

In his May 17 interview to several Armenian TV channels on his way back from an internationally mediated meeting with Azerbaijan’s leader in Vienna, Austria, President Sargsyan argued against attempting to recapture the lands, saying that it would have entailed heavy casualties. Opposition hardliners have dismissed his statement as a pseudo-argument.

For the Unity party, which was recently established by former Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian and is likely to become the Sargsyan-led ruling Republican Party’s main competitor in next year’s parliamentary elections, it is also unacceptable that Sargsyan presents the issue of lost territories only as a dilemma of land versus human lives.

“This is a very bad message to our people and our army, the mediators and especially our adversary,” the party said in a statement late last week.

Meanwhile, people from Talish are waiting for an opportunity to return to their village. Marine Sahakyan, 28, says, however, that they will need security guarantees for that. “Everything is possible otherwise,” she says. “Who would have thought that 20 years after the end of hostilities we would again be attacked?

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

“Now I want to ask again our Defense Ministry: if the Azeris start military operations again, won’t it be easier for them to move forward because, for example, the Lele Tepe high ground is in their hands?” the analyst queried at a press conference on Monday.

I recall watching a video of several of our soldiers talking about how this gain is exaggerated - The hill's purpose is to conceal troop movement and act as a fortification. However, the Azeris formed a salient when capturing the hill, and that our troops are positioned on their flanks. This should theoretically negate the importance of the hill.

I sometimes think that the loss of these territories is exaggerated by certain anti-government media and figures.

The government is correct. These gains by the Azerbaijanis are insignificant in the big picture, and in the event of full-scale war. However, Azerbajian seems to have a different objective here and because of that those hills are strategic.

In his May 17 interview to several Armenian TV channels on his way back from an internationally mediated meeting with Azerbaijan’s leader in Vienna, Austria, President Sargsyan argued against attempting to recapture the lands, saying that it would have entailed heavy casualties. Opposition hardliners have dismissed his statement as a pseudo-argument.

I disagree, but the President does make a legitimate point. Attacking a prepared enemy position in mountain terrain requires a greater ratio of attacking soldiers to defending soldiers than a war conducted on level ground, according to military logic and mountain warfare.

We would suffer heavy losses if we were to assault those positions, which have already been fortified. I also fear that we would suffer even more armored losses - the enemy utilizes much more advanced anti-tank missile systems.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I've already addressed this in my post to londontsi. You are twisting my words, as usual, in order to build an argument. Its pathetic. That is why I refuse to have a discussion with you. You can hardly call it a discussion when you are being ---- DISHONEST ----

That "idea" is mentioned in the manifesto of a political organization in Armenia. I mentioned that. If you were knowledgeable about Armenian domestic politics, you would know that.

That is not "unity". This is a Reddit-style echo chamber, just without the downvoting. Instead, you personally attack users with different opinions. You are the one who initiated the personal attacks and shill-accusations, which are deeply offensive and violate the rules of this forum.

Its hard to be coherent, when you who won't be. Most of your posts are not straight forward, you take my words and twist them. The vast majority of your responses are filled with logical fallacies and ad hominem attacks. That is the behavior of a professional troll. You literally fabricate points in order to build a strawman argument. You have repeatedly quoted points I made just to disregard them and create a strawman to attack. I refuse to have a discussion with someone who employs such snake-like tactics. I refuse to have a discussion with someone who acts like a vicious and gossipy 16 year old girl. I refuse to have a discussion with a troll

This is not Facebook or any social media sites that you think you can troll on and just throw wild accusations around. This is a moderated and civil forum for discussion on Armenian topics.

If you want me to answer you, then you will apologize for your uncivil behavior and rule violations. You will apologize for your strawman arguments and logical fallacies. You will adopt a civil behavior employed by people like AbuSindi, Azad, Eddo, Armnuke, etc. (I have absolutely no hesitation to answer their questions) You will accept the fact that I am Armenian with a different opinion than you. If you cannot do any of these things. I have nothing to say to you. If you cannot accept any of this, it will be the moderators talking to you and not me.

Do you see this guy? What a manipulator.
Man I am asking you straight forward, why we cannot have a peace without land concessions? What and how are you going to make demands of Western Armenian territories and how are they related with land concessions in Artsakh?
This is very simple. Explain.
You have not explained anything.

[ASALA2116]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Do you see this guy? What a manipulator.
Man I am asking you straight forward, why we cannot have a peace without land concessions? What and how are you going to make demands of Western Armenian territories and how are they related with land concessions in Artsakh?
This is very simple. Explain.
You have not explained anything.

You guys both need to calm down. Lori just answer his question. Not going to kill to . It's a military forum not a playground to insult each other

[HajiHabibli]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

One thing I always notice is that our boys seem to all be in great spirits and it looks genuine, it's easy to tell when it's not.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

However, I dont know what Kommandos is talking about when speaks of Martakert. It is closer to the lowlands and south of the heights that were seized. Its already in range of their artillery. Pretty confusing.

The Talish part is correct. Their new positions will place the village under direct sniper fire.

See attached. If we could have pushed them into the valley most of the area would have had better security.
White line is the old trenches divide, now they got the hill (dotted line) they have visual of Talish, they can use small arms 50mm to harass residents.
[ATTACH]3097[/ATTACH]

The Martakert part they are lumping it with their propaganda. The white line are the dividing trenches, notice how many of their villages are close to that divining trenches vs our Martakert.
Also, our side is playing nice. Those villages should be treated the same way they treat Talish. Make them a nightmare place to live. Enough being nice!