Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Արցախի առաջնագծի զինվորները

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Then we go back to earlier posts in this forum, where our drone displays were said to be embarrassing.
Right after those posts I posted that our Tech guys were right on track developing cheap, disposable small drones that can be sent to investigate on snipers or enemy movement on platoon level.
Nothing embarrassing, on the contrary, smart and to the real point for our needs.
As long as nobody compares them to Israeli orbiters or such expensive and overrated propaganda tool and tries to waist our resources on that.
You can add a smal explosive charge on those "cheap" looking drones of ours and "voila", fly into their trench and explode them.
And still those can have better effect on snipers but not on full war.
I was talking this, but was rebutted.
I still think that drones however nice are not the center of our technical achievement. All those those other high tech stuff has been more effective in April and will be so in near future. And those things we do not discuss as much as drones. And I feel drones take more space in our conscious than they deserve at this moment.
Looking at the new hype of our MOD and tech figures cooperation and development plans (right after April war those two were at odds and in accusations), I hope we don't take the azery road to big drone propaganda show off expenditures and empty strategic gains.
Remember the tech guys love to make money, but that will drain our budget.
We have to be realistic in our hype and public opinions that drive MOD interests.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Azeris tried tactical scaled war in April and failed.
Next they may go back to full scale war. And in that war, like Samvel Babayan said, an estimated 10000 to 20000 artillery projectiles are going to be launched by Azeris onto us on opening hour. Out of this only 5-10% will be guided munition. All will be fired to saturate frontline and break our moral-lines. Suicide drones will be only insignificant part of this.
Instead of trying to outshoot Azeris, we will act by western tactic of trying to take out those enemy firing assets as quick as we can.
There are only two ways of doing this. First is the aviation, including drones large enough that can destroy enemy lounchers. But given air defences on Azeri side, this cannot be sucessful. The other way is using artillery(both conventional and rocketry). Quicker and more accurate you are, more chances of victory. Like in April, almost 100% of war outcome will be determined by this.
You need to be fast at discovering, acquisition of enemy artillery installations and armor groups and accurate and quick destructive hits.
You will need quiet, undetectable drones to cover about 40KM deep enemy territory because that is from how deep 90% of enemy fire will come from and where enemy armors group for push.
This is where most effort in technical advancement need to be.
I think our Kroonk s are perfect. I will like it however for them to be upgraded and improved all the time. Nothing dramatic or hiper.

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Azeris tried tactical scaled war in April and failed.
Next they may go back to full scale war. And in that war, like Samvel Babayan said, an estimated 10000 to 20000 artillery projectiles are going to be launched by Azeris onto us on opening hour. Out of this only 5-10% will be guided munition. All will be fired to saturate frontline and break our moral-lines. Suicide drones will be only insignificant part of this.
Instead of trying to outshoot Azeris, we will act by western tactic of trying to take out those enemy firing assets as quick as we can.
There are only two ways of doing this. First is the aviation, including drones large enough that can destroy enemy lounchers. But given air defences on Azeri side, this cannot be sucessful. The other way is using artillery(both conventional and rocketry). Quicker and more accurate you are, more chances of victory. Like in April, almost 100% of war outcome will be determined by this.
You need to be fast at discovering, acquisition of enemy artillery installations and armor groups and accurate and quick destructive hits.
You will need quiet, undetectable drones to cover about 40KM deep enemy territory because that is from how deep 90% of enemy fire will come from and where enemy armors group for push.
This is where most effort in technical advancement need to be.
I think our Kroonk s are perfect. I will like it however for them to be upgraded and improved all the time. Nothing dramatic or hiper.

For artillery to be quicker and stealthier, we will need to increase our self-propelled howitzers. Also, we need artillery pieces that can be operated by a smaller number of soldiers. Msta-S is one solution. Additional 2S3s and 2S1s could be a cheaper solution.

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Azeris tried tactical scaled war in April and failed.
Next they may go back to full scale war. And in that war, like Samvel Babayan said, an estimated 10000 to 20000 artillery projectiles are going to be launched by Azeris onto us on opening hour. Out of this only 5-10% will be guided munition. All will be fired to saturate frontline and break our moral-lines. Suicide drones will be only insignificant part of this.
Instead of trying to outshoot Azeris, we will act by western tactic of trying to take out those enemy firing assets as quick as we can.
There are only two ways of doing this. First is the aviation, including drones large enough that can destroy enemy lounchers. But given air defences on Azeri side, this cannot be sucessful. The other way is using artillery(both conventional and rocketry). Quicker and more accurate you are, more chances of victory. Like in April, almost 100% of war outcome will be determined by this.
You need to be fast at discovering, acquisition of enemy artillery installations and armor groups and accurate and quick destructive hits.
You will need quiet, undetectable drones to cover about 40KM deep enemy territory because that is from how deep 90% of enemy fire will come from and where enemy armors group for push.
This is where most effort in technical advancement need to be.
I think our Kroonk s are perfect. I will like it however for them to be upgraded and improved all the time. Nothing dramatic or hiper.

An other option is counter battery radars. They are an active system (emmiting radio frequencies) but the are extremely accurate at pinpointing firing positions. They are expensive tho.
Also I've been thinking about those vibration sensors we have been producing. If they could be place close enough and in large amounts they could triangulate the shocks from the artillery pieces firing.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I am not sure how often we will be facing major confrontations. For 20 years x 365 days = 7300 days vs last 4 days war. That will be 0.05% vs 99+%.
Most of the larger armaments will be used 0.05%. Anything related to observation, reconnaissance, radars, sensors (all kinds of them), drones, high caliber guns, deterrence, day/night visions and cameras will be used 99+%. The most effective on the cheap will be artillery during large scale wars. Shell the shut out of them till they turn green, than use all the other big toys if needed.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Also I've been thinking about those vibration sensors we have been producing. If they could be place close enough and in large amounts they could triangulate the shocks from the artillery pieces firing.

Won't work. Those are good for border intrusion at short distance and they are wired .
I have seen some sensors for gun/artillery, but again their are for short distance and not the most accurate. They only give you an angle with a question mark.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Gokorik and Armnuke, now we're talking.
I also agree with Azad about uncertainty of full scale war starting. But let's think this way, what are the chances of our enemies at changing the status quo on the frontline?
Besides the dirty politics of our enemies and allies, the only way for Azeris is war. Now the scale is open to debate.
But in any case and scale, our ability in quickly destroying enemy firing positions, be it a single sniper or an artillery battalion, will determine our future.
Whatever technology or weapons systems we need has to be chosen and acquired either from outside or our own. Free of any political or propagandist influenses. Taken only military matters in objective.
We can always be smarter than Azeris. If suicide drones, fine.
But the worst will be treating any piece of equipment as a magic bullet. Even the Iskanders.
If we look deeper and more informed at things (of which I am humbly lagging, badly), I am sure that there are things we can do to make Azeris buckle on front always.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Won't work. Those are good for border intrusion at short distance and they are wired .
I have seen some sensors for gun/artillery, but again their are for short distance and not the most accurate. They only give you an angle with a question mark.

I have been thinking about those sensors too. I don't see them working for identifying enemy kilometers away. But with those you can create monitored zones on passes and roads in mountains.
Imagine the topography in front areas. Let's say slices of sections 10 kilometers deep. The way it works is there are only so many passes in mountains that enemy columns have to use in order to advance and penetrate in our territory. You install those sensors in a manner like underground GPS in those areas.
Train and program those in your computer controls.
Let's say an enemy column is passing (broke tru the lines, or front as usual in large wars has got chopped and mixed), you triangulate with your sensors the exact area, identify the equipment that is passing using signature data and open up with artillery 20-30 KM away.
You create a ring of fire, a kill zone.
Those sensors are expensive right. But here is where our tech guys should come up with military cheaper versions. Not geodesic marvels but units that can act as observation posts.