Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Vardan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

What kind of BS is this? I thought the ceasefire was signed by Stepanakert and Baku. Andrey Rayevskiy is talking out of his ass. Officially Armenia didn't have any involvement in the Arstakh liberation.

The ceasefire was signed between Baku, Yerevan and Stepanakert

[Karabed]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The ceasefire was signed between Baku, Yerevan and Stepanakert

Right, Russia's representative to the CSCE Minsk Group also signed it. It's called the Bishkek Protocol.

Bishkek Protocol is a peace treaty and provisional ceasefire agreement, signed by representatives of Republic of Armenia (Parliament Speaker Babken Ararktsian), unrecognized Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh (chairman of NKR parliament Karen Baburian), Republic of Azerbaijan (First Deputy Parliament Speaker Afiyaddin Jalilov) and Russia's representative to the CSCE Minsk Group Vladimir Kazimirov on May 5, 1994 in Bishkek, the capital of Kyrgyzstan. The protocol, still in effect, terminated the Nagorno-Karabakh War and froze the issue. The only severe breach since then became 2008 Mardakert skirmishes.

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

According to the azeri claims soldiers and officers of 366th regiment took part in the attack on Khojaly.

The 366th actually launched the attack with subunits (maybe a dozen or so men) of fedayeen. There is all this bluster about the attack falling on the anniversary of Sumgait (just a coincidence) but what really happened is the the Azeri launched rockets from Khodjali and made the mistake of hitting the 366th mess hall killing a popular commander and also killing and wounding a handful of other troops in the regiment. The 366th went from being relatively complacent and neutral to outraged. Khodjali was already surrounded on 3 sides by the Armenians with a corridor open toward Aghdam in the east. The Armenians were going to attack at some point but the 366th decided to cross over the Armenian lines and take matters into their own hands.

The Azeri troops fled like cowards, shed most of their weapons and uniforms, leaving civilians to fend for themselves (many of which were Meskhetian refugees from Central Asia who had been relocated to the area by Soviet and Azeri authorities to bolster the muslim population in Artsakh). While retreating, a few armed Azeris who accompanied the civilians continued to fire. The 366th (who were indeed drunk) fired back killing civilians but then again, so did the Azeris from the Aghdam line who got confused (Mamed the Mules psychos who were headquartered in the Aghdam Cemetery) the people were caught in a crossfire.

Regarding the mutilation and scalping of corpses, that was the work of the Azeris. It occurred a day or two later. On xocali.net you can actually see the before and after photos that show the dead and then show some of the dead mutilated at a later date. The area of the retreat just east of Khodjali all the way to Aghdam was still in Azeri hands at the time.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Azerbaijan Pressing U.S. on Military Aid
February 23, 2011 - 8:59am, by Joshua Kucera
The Bug Pit Azerbaijan U.S.
Azerbaijan has been trying assiduously to get additional U.S. military aid, and U.S. diplomats have considered the idea of providing weapons in exchange for cooperation on the Turkey-Armenia peace process, according to some recently released U.S. diplomatic cables.

The Russian magazine Russian Reporter has published three cables dealing with Azerbaijan, all from 2009, in an article they call "The Azerbaijanian Machiavelli." (To see the cables in English, scroll down to the bottom.)

In one cable, the U.S.'s then-ambassador to Baku Anne Derse describes how Azerbaijan President Ilham Aliyev asked for various concessions, including weapons sales, that would assuage Baku's concerns over the Ankara-Yerevan talks:

Aliyev asked Ambassador Derse to explore whether any of the following are possible (reftel a): -- Progress on walking back Section 907, -- Defensive military sales, particularly air defense, and -- High-level actions to show commitment to solving NK. Either delivering on one of these items or showing a willingness to have serious dialogue on these requests could be enough to "buy" Azerbaijani silence on Turkey-Armenia.

Some relatively simple possibilities for rejuvenating our bilateral ties in the near term include:

-- A statement from the Administration that supports previous Administrations' positions that 907 unsuitably restricts the President's authority to carry out the foreign relations of the United States, and that the Administration opposes any new conditionality on the President's waiver authority.
-- The appointment of a new U.S. Minsk Group negotiator who is of a more senior rank or who already has the confidence of the government in Baku. Baku might also view positively the assignment of a Minsk Group envoy who had this responsibility as a full-time vocation, as was the case prior to the Bush Administration.
-- A senior-level dialogue about the sale of defensive radar equipment or a similar clearly defensive air defense system. The DoD Defense Threat Reduction Agency has already provided Azerbaijan a coastal radar system to detect WMD proliferation across the Caspian. Azerbaijan is looking for systems that could provide early warning of attack from its neighbors.
-- A robust training and equipment program for Azerbaijani troops headed to Afghanistan. The government is seriously considering a battalion-sized contribution to Operation Enduring Freedom, but are hoping for a serious, sustained commitment to train the units that are being deployed with American forces in Afghanistan.

A subsequent cable showed that Aliyev was not interested merely in training the troops going to Afghanistan, but wanted some of them to remain in Azerbaijan, which was slowing down the negotiations. And so far, as far as I know, there is no such training program. Similarly, I don't think there has been any radar sales, or movement on Section 907 (a law that attempts to restrict U.S. aid to Azerbaijan), or a dedicated Minsk Group envoy, for that matter.

In another cable, Derse speculates on the brouhaha over a reported arms transfer from Russia to Armenia. She wondered what was behind all of the publicity the news was getting, and thought it could be to get more U.S. military aid, or to clear the way for weapons buys that would violate the Treaty on Conventional Forces in Europe.

The reason the GOAJ is aggressively pushing this story in the media is unclear. While over time it may be used as a pretext for a CFE-busting arms purchase, to justify a hardening of its position in N-K negotiations, or shown to be for domestic political purposes as the referendum on eliminating presidential term limits on March 18 approaches, none of these reasons are particularly compelling. Azerbaijan is already pursuing across-the-board upgrades in its military capability (although the President,s rhetoric has vastly outpaced the results), its position on N-K is already basically absolute and the government is handily suppressing opposition to the referendum. 10. (S) It is likely that the GOAJ will later use this story as a lever on the United States to argue for increased military support and to accuse the West of ignoring Azerbaijan's legitimate security problems. However, it would be strange if that were the only reason for a fairly elaborate disinformation ploy.

One more interesting tidbit: Derse believes, along with the International Crisis Group, that Azerbaijan's huge military spending has still not translated into an advantage on the ground:

Furthermore, Azerbaijan, even with its focus on improving its military capability, is unlikely anytime soon to structure a force large or well-equipped enough to overcome the terrain advantages enjoyed by the NK Self-Defense Force and the Armenian army.

But perhaps some American weapons would help...

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/62942

[Karabed]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The 366th actually launched the attack with subunits (maybe a dozen or so men) of fedayeen. There is all this bluster about the attack falling on the anniversary of Sumgait (just a coincidence) but what really happened is the the Azeri launched rockets from Khodjali and made the mistake of hitting the 366th mess hall killing a popular commander and also killing and wounding a handful of other troops in the regiment. The 366th went from being relatively complacent and neutral to outraged. Khodjali was already surrounded on 3 sides by the Armenians with a corridor open toward Aghdam in the east. The Armenians were going to attack at some point but the 366th decided to cross over the Armenian lines and take matters into their own hands.

The Azeri troops fled like cowards, shed most of their weapons and uniforms, leaving civilians to fend for themselves (many of which were Meskhetian refugees from Central Asia who had been relocated to the area by Soviet and Azeri authorities to bolster the muslim population in Artsakh). While retreating, a few armed Azeris who accompanied the civilians continued to fire. The 366th (who were indeed drunk) fired back killing civilians but then again, so did the Azeris from the Aghdam line who got confused (Mamed the Mules psychos who were headquartered in the Aghdam Cemetery) the people were caught in a crossfire.

Regarding the mutilation and scalping of corpses, that was the work of the Azeris. It occurred a day or two later. On xocali.net you can actually see the before and after photos that show the dead and then show some of the dead mutilated at a later date. The area of the retreat just east of Khodjali all the way to Aghdam was still in Azeri hands at the time.

Do you know how many Armenians and Russians the 366th soviet motor-rifle regiment consisted?
Your post corresponds with NKR report. But it doesn't mention the 366th regiment.

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Do you know how many Armenians and Russians the 366th soviet motor-rifle regiment consisted?
Your post corresponds with NKR report. But it doesn't mention the 366th regiment.

Not sure. I don know it was mostly Slavs

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

May 9 Stepanakert. NKR-Artcakh. SWAT

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Abiyev must stay. The more corrupt the officials, the wider the advantage is for us.
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Azerbaijan’s Defense Minister in danger of losing post over crimes in Azeri army
February 23, 2011 - 19:51 AMT 15:51 GMT

PanARMENIAN.Net - Azerbaijan’s Defense Minister is in danger of losing his post.

Azerbaijani parliamentarians named the Defense Minister responsible for recent deaths in the army. The parliamentarians admitted the bloody incident where an Azeri serviceman shot his 7 fellow soldiers dead to be among many similar ones in the army. The MPs lay the blame of neglecting the situation on the Defense Minister, too busy with preparations of war with neighbors to mind the intolerance atmosphere in the army.

According to Azeri media reports, Karabakh Liberation Organization demanded dismissal of the Defence Minster and the head of the General Staff “to save the Azeri army”.

Apparently, a storm is brewing over the head of Abiyev. The situation in the Azeri army is critical, and judging by the situation, the current Defense Minister will be dismissed. The problem lies in finding a suitable candidate for the position. It’s unlikely that a person, assuming a ministerial position will refuse to be involved in corruption, busing himself with army problems instead.

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/world/news/62378/