Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

When one sees sh*t on the ground they call it sh*t.

You are free to call it sh*t, feces, excrement or whatever you like......and based on what word you use, other people are also free to form an opinion about yourself

I am glad you are enjoying this thread. I also appreciate your immense contributions to it. This thread has been very credible so far. Lets all keep it that way.

A big thank you to all of you.

[jgk3]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Likewise to you Zoravar, this thread has contributed a lot to our forum.

[meline]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Thanks a lot Zoravar and Federate.
A question, how close is the link between the Lezgins and Dagestan now? I know that back in the 90s there was a strong interaction, but I am not sure how it is in the present day. Thanks.

[Lernakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

KARABAKH MAY DISAGREE WITH RESULTS OF ANY NEGOTIATIONS BASING ON ITS NOT PARTICIPATING IN THEM

"Noravank" Foundation

https://www.regnum.ru

13 November 2008

Gagik Harutyunyan's interview to REGNUM

Signing of Armenian-Azerbaijani-Russian declaration has come to prove
about a new important milestone in Karabakh conflict regulation. It was
announced by the director of "Noravank" Foundation Gagik Harutyunyan
in his interview with an Ð~XÐ~P REGNUM correspondent.

The expert mentioned the fact that for the first time after 1994 the
document was signed not only by the Armenian and Azerbaijani parties
but also, in the very case, by the Russian one. "After South Ossetian
conflict the situation in the region has changed and Russia's stocks
are rising rapidly. It has come to be proved by the fact that Russia
tries to become the guarantor of the contract which will possibly be
signed between Armenia and Azerbaijan," stressed up G.Harutyunyan.

"Today many people say that the version suggested by Russia is, as a
matter of fact, not very advantageous for Armenia. It is also possible
and in this sense it is often reminded the situation of 1920s, when
Russia and Turkey divided Armenia between themselves. The analogy is
not quite opportune. In comparison with those years Armenia now is
an established state, and it is not that easy to divide it even if
it is very much desired," mentioned the expert .

G.Harutyunyan accentuated that it was not possible to ignore the
interests of Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh in the conflict settlement
process. In this connection he considered it quite noteworthy the
military trainings in Nagorno-Karabakh just before the meeting in
Moscow, where it was also considered the scenario of transferring
military operations into the territory of Azerbaijan. To Harutyunyan's
estimation these trainings have come to prove that the issue can not
be settled at will of only one of the parties.

The expert disagreed with the opinion of the Armenian opposition
leader Levon Ter-Petrosyan that by signing the declaration Armenian
factually determined a new negotiating status and once and forever
excluded the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic from it. "We must proceed from
the interests of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic and the Republic of
Armenia, i.e. Armenia.

Karabakh may any moment announce that it is not the participant of
negotiations and doesn't recognize their results. In fact, it is note
a bad move in the reserve...Although at present Armenia is alone
in the negotiation process; it goes without saying that Armenia's
President Serge Sargisyan, who is the head of Self-Defense Committee of
Nagorno-Karabakh, also de-facto represents the interests of Karabakh,"
summarized Harutyunyan.

[Lernakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

SHORT REST BEFORE STORM

Vardan Grigoryan
Hayots Ashkhar Daily
13 Nov 08
Armenia

The successive decline observed in the Karabakh peace talks and
the Armenian-Turkish relations makes the task of predicting and
confronting the new challenges an urgent issue for the political
forces. So, it's not time for "specifying political attitudes" now.

Judging by the shallow statements of the NA Deputies and the tactics
of playing an "internal political hide-and-seek" with regard to the
Karabakh issue (a practice adopted by the Armenian National Congress,
the principal pro-opposition force), the solution of such problem will
again be the sole monopoly of the authorities and expert circles in
the near future.

Whereas, it's obvious that this December we will be facing new
serious developments with regard to both the Karabakh issue and the
Armenian-Turkish relations.

The United States influential mediation aimed at the implementation of
the Madrid Principles will soon be included in the agenda. Besides,
the top figures of Russia and Turkey will meet in Moscow, and during
their meeting they will try to overcome what has been characterized
by well-known Russian expert S. Markedonov as a "peace-keeping
rivalry". Actually, what we see at present is just a short but
extremely important period of rest which will allow us to think about
strengthening the Armenian party's20political arguments that may be
replenished by new ones.

In this respect, it is extremely important to take into consideration
the main lessons of the past months, because they convinced us of the
impossibility of the speedy regulation of the relationship with Turkey,
the partiality of Turkey's mediation, the country's immoral ambitions
of using the first signs of ameliorating the bilateral relations with
purposes of impeding the process of the recognition of the Armenian
Genocide etc.

The necessity of counteracting the neighbors' policy with new
counterbalances is becoming obvious.

So far, the Armenian diplomacy hasn't properly used the stabilizing
and balancing role of Iran, the other neighbor of ours in the
South Caucasus. Of course, this cautiousness of Armenia has been
somehow conditioned by the concern of not becoming the target of the
international community's negative attitude to Iran.

However, it should be born in mind that the same international
community's attitude towards Russia following the recent
Russian-Georgian armed conflict did not absolutely prevent the Armenian
and Russian parties from continuing their strategic partnership. And
after the shift of Government in the United States, the international
community's desire and opportunities of keeping a powerful country
like Iran under continuous pressure have sharply decreased.

Moreover, Iran is now the most interested party i n terms of
establishing Armenian control over the liberated territories
bordering on Nagorno Karabakh. Especially considering the fact
that the conversation here goes around establishing an international
peace-keeping mission in those territories - something that is becoming
a serious threat for Tehran.

Therefore, in case Turkey makes any attempt of becoming active,
the Armenian party may speak about its southern neighbors' equal
sense of responsibility for the South Caucasian region. After all,
the territories of all the South Caucasian countries were historically
more attached to Iran rather than Turkey.

We also think that the Nagorno Karabakh Republic should apply to
the United Nations and other international organizations through
Armenia with a demand to investigate and condemn the ethnic cleansings
committed and the genocidal policy conducted against the Armenians in
the territory of Azerbaijan since 1918. And return of the liberated
territories or the possibility of Nagorno Karabakh's existence
inside Azerbaijan, questions that are often addressed to the Armenian
diplomacy while being raised on different levels, must be conditioned
by the fact that Azerbaijan has never been condemned for the above-
mentioned acts against our nation.

In the near future, Armenia is required to pay special attention
to the issue of speeding up the construction of the Iran-Armenia
railway. At the same time, it is necessary to take advantage20of the
EU countries' interest in the program aimed at the construction of the
Baku-Akhalkalaki-Yerevan highway, and to involve the representatives
of those countries in the Armenian-Georgian joint consortium.

However, the most important problem whose solution may, in the near
future, contribute to increasing the resistibility of Armenia and the
Armenian diplomacy, is the healing of the internal political life by
way of developing an atmosphere of mutual trust, initiating a dialogue
and finding civilized solutions to the existing problems.

[Lernakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Uzeir Cafarov: "None of the commanders of military divisions and their parts have been brought to responsibility on the cases of death of 70 soldiers"

69 servicemen died through the past six months by our estimates, said military expert Uzeir Cafarov. He said the causes of death are different including those killed by enemies, suicide, careless use of gun, accidents, bullying and so on.

According to the military expert, 15 servicemen committed suicide among whom 9 did it due to bullying. Five servicemen died in the result of explosion and dire in the combat vehicles in the framework of military trainings.

"The figures are alarming, considering that in 2007 62 servicemen died while this year the number of the dead reaches 70 though it is just the eleventh month.

We are especially concerned about the indifference and irresponsibility of the senior military ranks of the Ministry of Defense, cruelly speaking of the absence of information regarding the said incident. The killed serviceman is already buried, while the Defense Ministry does not either confirm or refute the fact of death. Such an attitude damages the image of the national army. Parents of the conscripts feel uncomfortable in this situation.

He said the impunity and irresponsibility of the representatives of country's Military prosecutor's office prove that the role of this structure has been reduced to zero.

"None of the commanders of military divisions and their parts have been brought to responsibility on the cases of death of 70 soldiers", said Cafarov.

He stated the need to put strict demands towards all commanders regardless of the rank.

"Our public is also indifferent to these events, it seems that the information about the death of our soldiers has been too frequent, while in the developed countries an injury of a soldier causes wide discussions".

He also said that moreover, most people consider that if mass media cover this fact, it means they act in favor of the enemy.

"I do not share this opinion as press is bound to cover events and thus call the public for discussions. The senior military ranks must fulfill the duties in a proper manner", concluded Cafarov.

URL: http://www.today.az/news/society/49018.html

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian politician Tigran Karapetyan: "Armenia may cede to Azerbaijan only Aghdam"

15 November 2008 [10:15] - Today.Az
"The signed declaration implies the recognition of the "NKR" independence by Azerbaijan", said leader of the Popular Party Tigran Karapetyan.


The politician considers that in order to settle the Karabakh problem Armenia must display political flexibility and agree on some territorial concessions.

"Of the liberated lands of Nagorno Karabakh Armenia can cede only Aghdam.

The trilateral agreement signed in Moscow showed readiness of the Armenian and Azerbaijani sides to settle the Karabakh conflict peacefully, on the basis of international law. This declaration implies the fact of recognition of "NKR" recognition by Azerbaijan.

Yet, this is not an adequate response to the recognition of the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan by Armenia, as Karabakh independence is a formed political fact.

The issue today is the recognition of the liberated lands of Karabakh, which Azerbaijan does not do. And in this direction I imply some concessions from the Armenian side in the issue of the further settlement of the conflict", said the politician.

"On the whole, I welcome the idea and position of the public initiative "Unification" about the integrity of Karabakh and impossibility of territorial concessions to Azerbaijan from among the liberated lands of Karabakh.

But we are not radical in this issue. I do not quite understand the policy of the "Unification", which says not a piece of land should be ceded to the enemy. Certainly, we are the owners of our lands. But, if the super states guarantee security of Karabakh, we can think over it.

I consider it possible to return only Aghdam, no other territories.

Why Aghdam? It has always been a market of arms sale, while our markets sell apples. In Aghdam the Azerbaijani population always exceeded the Armenian. The remaining territories are important to ensure the security of "NKR" and I consider that any concessions of the liberated lands will be followed by others.

Azerbaijan will not content on this and will require new concessions. Therefore, except Aghdam, I think other concessions are inadmissible. Let international peacekeeping forces, for example Russia, be deployed there. Let them deploy in Aghdam", said Karapetyan.

/Regnum/


URL: http://www.today.az/news/politics/49004.html

-----------------------------------------------------------

If any ceding of territories is to be involved in an eventual final deal (although I am against ceding even 1 cm of land) and that that would guarantee recognition and "peace", this man represents what my stance would be. Agdam suffers from scorched earth policy and the only thing you can find there is a mosque. Here's a map of where Agdam is for people who are wondering:

In red.


Compare the photo above with this to find Agdam in the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic.

[Lernakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

If any ceding of territories is to be involved in an eventual final deal (although I am against ceding even 1 cm of land) and that that would guarantee recognition and "peace", this man represents what my stance would be. Agdam suffers from scorched earth policy and the only thing you can find there is a mosque. Here's a map of where Agdam is for people who are wondering:

I agree, even though I am against the ceding of land. Aghdam is the maximum concession we should make. I think that if such a deal would be signed the Armenian people would somehow be able to accept it. I just wonder how Aliyev is going to sell this story to the Azeri public.
I was also worried about the fate of Kashatagh but Bako's latest remarks have somewhat calmed my mind. We need that land border with Iran, this area is very important for the survival of Armenia and Artsakh. However with all this said I do not see Armenia and Azerbaijan sign a deal anytime soon.

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

azeri forces attempt to penetrate into NKR defense army rare

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ OSCE monitoring of the line of contact between the Azeri and Nagorno Karabakh armed forces will be held on November 19, OSCE CiO’s personal representative, ambassador Andrzej Kasprzyk said in Yerevan today.

Regular monitoring in Chinar village (Tavush region of Armenia) will be followed by crisis monitoring of the line of contact between the Azeri and Nagorno Karabakh armed forces, over the latest incident in Fizuli.

On the night of November 16, Azeri forces attempted to penetrate into the rear of the NKR defense army. The attack was rebuffed. One Azeri soldier was killed.

For his part, U.S. Co-chair of the OSCE Minsk Group, ambassador Matt Bryza said the Minsk Group has already requested permission to conduct crisis monitoring.

http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=27710

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Here's the NKR MFA statement on the attempted azerbaboon infestation today
-----------------------------------------
NKR MFA Statement
[ 17 November 2008 | 17:46 ] Karabakh, politics |

On the night of 15-16, 2008, a detachment of special assignment of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces made an attempt to penetrate into the rear of the NKR Defense Army in the south-eastern direction of the positions of the NKR Armed Forces, thus having grossly violated the requirements of the ceasefire regime. As a result of the measures taken by the servicemen of the NKR Defense Army, being on duty, the group was hurled back to the initial position, thus incurring losses in manpower (leaving a corpse of one of the killed near the front line position of the NKR Defense Army).

In the morning of November 16, 2008, the NKR Ministry of Foreign Affairs without delay notified the OSCE MG Co-Chairs and Personal Representative of the OSCE Chairman-in-office of the incident. The Ministry suggested to conduct immediately a crisis-monitoring in the given section of the contact line of the NKR and AR Armed Forces.

The Ministry points out the fact that the attempt of the breakthrough was made by the Azerbaijani side during the OSCE MG Co-chairs visit to the Nagorno Karabakh Republic, as well as after the Moscow Declaration signed recently by Russian, Armenian and Azerbaijani presidents, in which, particularly, the readiness of the sides to contribute to the establishment of an atmosphere of stability and security in the region via political settlement of the Nagorno Karabakh conflict is mentioned.

Noting that this is not the first sally of the subversive groups of the Armed Forces of Azerbaijan to the front lines of the Armed Forces of the NKR for this year, the Ministry reminds that the NKR leadership has repeatedly directed the mediators’ attention to the necessity of taking immediate measures by the international community on strengthening the ceasefire regime in the Nagorno Karabakh conflict zone and ensuring the irreversibility of peace.

Taking into consideration the official Baku’s destructive steps, which, unfortunately, have not received proper political assessment by international mediators, the Ministry places the responsibility for the possible escalation of tension on the contact line entirely upon the leadership of Azerbaijan.

An appropriate note reflecting the NKR authorities’ official viewpoint on the given issue has been sent to the OSCE Chairman-in-office and Personal Representative of the OSCE Chairman-in- Office.

From http://today.hetq.am/en/politics/nkr/