Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian women in the Armenian Police

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Land corridor to the black sea. OK. Fantastic. We can be like Djibouti and Somalia, nations with access to the water yet no idea what to do with it. The argument I am trying to make is that the whole concept of Armenia taking over Azerbaijan or expanding the geography of the country is largely not going to happen. They are political ideologies that distract from making what we have better and competitive.

Industrializing and improving Armenia's economy is as much part of defeating Azerbaijan and the Turks and making Armenia the better state than all this muscle flexing of weaponary.

Look at the two Koreas. No one would argue that the North is winning anything, which is why they're developing nukes. They're essentially failed states that have nothing else but political blackmail going for them.

Industralizing? What do you think Armenia is? 1920s Ukraine or Russia? That was a hurdle passed decades ago. Djibouti and Somalia? Don't even try it, those are failed states and in everlasting civil war. Nothing in common with Armenia's situation. A very poor comparison. South Korea is an economic East Asian power and has a significant military industry, they are far from a "Failed state". North Korea is a failed state since it is communist with no resources to speak of and strong and unneeded social repression. Not comparable either.

You are under the impression that beating the Turks, taking back our lands, and bettering the economy are mutually exclusive. This is wrong. To better the Armenian economic situation, you must beat the Turks who hinder Armenia's economic progress through an unlawful and warlike blockade on the nation. A land corridor to the Black Sea is existential for the nation. Access to the world and Armenia's allies should be the foremost goal. I do not know why you would think such a goal is its own ideology or is a distraction from anything. It is a remedy. A righting of the wrongs done to the nation over the past 100 years. I'd assume the "geographic expansion distraction" you speak of also includes Artsakh's struggle? Is not that geographic expansion. It seems like Armenia's borders are spreading there!


You can't make what you have better and more wealthy if what you have is nothing.

[armo12]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This video is just brilliant!i bet they filmed it in the same place where they fired the wm-80 for the first time

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Zeytun]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Industralizing? What do you think Armenia is? 1920s Ukraine or Russia? That was a hurdle passed decades ago. Djibouti and Somalia? Don't even try it, those are failed states and in everlasting civil war. Nothing in common with Armenia's situation. A very poor comparison. South Korea is an economic East Asian power and has a significant military industry, they are far from a "Failed state". North Korea is a failed state since it is communist with no resources to speak of and strong and unneeded social repression. Not comparable either.

You are under the impression that beating the Turks, taking back our lands, and bettering the economy are mutually exclusive. This is wrong. To better the Armenian economic situation, you must beat the Turks who hinder Armenia's economic progress through an unlawful and warlike blockade on the nation. A land corridor to the Black Sea is existential for the nation. Access to the world and Armenia's allies should be the foremost goal. I do not know why you would think such a goal is its own ideology or is a distraction from anything. It is a remedy. A righting of the wrongs done to the nation over the past 100 years. I'd assume the "geographic expansion distraction" you speak of also includes Artsakh's struggle? Is not that geographic expansion. It seems like Armenia's borders are spreading there!


You can't make what you have better and more wealthy if what you have is nothing.

North Korea is a failed state but its not due to the lack of resources, in fact the northern part is richer in resources ( Metals, Oil, Water, etc...).
As to the corridor, how do you envision the creation of this corridor ? Through direct control of land ? Opening the borders with Turkey ? Highway/Railway through Georgia ?

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

North Korea is a failed state but its not due to the lack of resources, in fact the northern part is richer in resources ( Metals, Oil, Water, etc...).
As to the corridor, how do you envision the creation of this corridor ? Through direct control of land ? Opening the borders with Turkey ? Highway/Railway through Georgia ?

Leasing a land for road or railway is not unknown.
But since Georgians and us are in diffrent camps, its very unlikely.
Though money opens up every door. If we would have a couple of global capacity companies in Armenia, those could initiate and finance such a project.
Maybe not realistic? But could happen if...

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

From our border to the Black Sea is around 180km straight shot. From the Armenian region of Georgia it is around 130km.
The last 60km close to the Black Sea are treacherous terrain to build large roads without any major infrastructures $$$.
Around $20 million/km x 200 Km = 4 Billion and 2 Billions in bridges. Land acquisition and any country's blessing = Good Luck!

At 5% interest it is 350 million a year
@ $100 a car 3.5 million cars.
@ $300 container truck 1.16 million trucks

No matter how we divide it, it is not feasible for a population of 3 million people. Even if we add the Iranian equation.
This is only paying of the project does not even include profits or land acquisition.

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

North Korea is a failed state but its not due to the lack of resources, in fact the northern part is richer in resources ( Metals, Oil, Water, etc...).
As to the corridor, how do you envision the creation of this corridor ? Through direct control of land ? Opening the borders with Turkey ? Highway/Railway through Georgia ?

Eh, you misunderstand. What I meant was, lack of resources within the background of communism. The only gainful communist nations to ever live, was the Soviet Union and PRC. Both of which are great in size, and have a seemingly endless wealth of natural resources. That is needed to achieve communism. (Collectivization, self-sufficiency, no leaning on capitalist trade, yadda yadda yadda)

Leasing a land for road or railway is not unknown.
But since Georgians and us are in diffrent camps, its very unlikely.
Though money opens up every door. If we would have a couple of global capacity companies in Armenia, those could initiate and finance such a project.
Maybe not realistic? But could happen if...

From our border to the Black Sea is around 180km straight shot. From the Armenian region of Georgia it is around 130km.
The last 60km close to the Black Sea are treacherous terrain to build large roads without any major infrastructures $$$.
Around $20 million/km x 200 Km = 4 Billion and 2 Billions in bridges. Land acquisition and any country's blessing = Good Luck!

At 5% interest it is 350 million a year
@ $100 a car 3.5 million cars.
@ $300 container truck 1.16 million trucks

No matter how we divide it, it is not feasible for a population of 3 million people. Even if we add the Iranian equation.
This is only paying of the project does not even include profits or land acquisition.

As for the corridor, Armenia must take control of the land. Either through war or as part of a peace settlement in Artsakh. Azad, I am not sure what you are talking about. The distance from Gyumri to Hopa and Batumi is the same. And Georgia would have nothing to do with this. Only Turkey and Azerbaijan. Armenia isn't at war with Georgia. Other than Javakh, none of those lands are or were Armenian. Northeastern Turkish provinces literally belong to Armenia. Their unlawful occupation is grounded upon an untruthful and void Treaty of Kars, signed by illegitimate states and made utterly meaningless by Turkey through the blockade.


The Turkish provinces between Shirak and the Black Sea isn't the Louisana Territory. They have roads, bridges, and even small cities. Believe it or not, Turks aren't Mongolian nomads, at least not anymore. Only about a million Turkish citizens live between Kars and Rize. Some of them even "Armenian."

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Azad, I am not sure what you are talking about. The distance from Gyumri to Hopa and Batumi is the same. And Georgia would have nothing to do with this.

There was no mention in which country the corridor will be build. The logical equations was to lease land in Georgia. I care less if it is in Georgia or turkey.
I agree with need our own coast or shore on the Black Sea. Attached is a map of the region, the white lined areas are majority Armenians.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Also Lori you do not make sense! If we somehow take that region from the turk (maybe by war?) against 90 million ... how are we going to use the Bosphorus Strait?