Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Just to add a couple of things to the tank upgrade topic.
Our tanks do not need immediate upgrade specially that we have a large number of T-72B and B1 versions.
All tanks in the T-72 series (including the T-90 which is an upgraded T-72) are prone to destruction when hit by ATGMs.

I would love to see you say that if you were manning one of those tanks, or if a family member or friends was. There have been many videos from Syria where a T-90 gets hit and there is no ignition of the ammo store, and there have been videos where the T-90 blows up. Without a doubt, the T-90 is much more survivable...

Regardless, any upgrade that can give our tankers a higher chance of surviving a hit or killing an enemy tank first is worth every penny. Also the Kontakt 1 ERA on the T72-BV's is only effective against shaped charges, not kinetic penetrators (sabot rounds). Kontakt 5 or Relikt are effective agiants both shape charges and kinetic penetrators and are at least twice as effective againts shaped charges, when compared to Kontakt 1. Those T-72B4's will be equipeed with either Kontakt 5 or Relikt, I hope Relikt since this is a more advanced version or Kontakt 5.

I'm sure you are aware of the other upgraded systems and components of the T-72B4 so I don't t need to dive into those, since each of those upgrades are significant as well.

Now as to why there is such a delay, if some of you remember, we were supposed to upgrade out T-72B's to the Polish PT-91 Twardy, but following the Ukranian Revolution of 2014, and subsequent tension between Russia and Europe, that went down the drain. Then it was announced, the T72B's would be upgraded to the T72-B4 standard. So that one reason for the delay.

Another reason, in my opinion, is the logistical aspect of upgrading 100 or more tanks. It would be extremely expensive to fly each T-72 from Armenia to where ever the upgrading plant is in Russia, and then once they are done upgrading, fly them back. From what I have read, it costs about $100,000 for a flight from eastern Europe to Afghanistan, with a full load. At about 45-50 tons(after upgrade) each flight would be at max capacity and the flights for upgrading 100 tanks, would cost 20 million.
I am assuming the MOD has accounted for this and decided to establish a plant within Armenia to do most of the upgrading. (Some components and systems of the tanks would still have to be separated from the tank and shipped to Russia. This takes time to setup, a lot of time.

One more theory is that the tank modernization program has been delayed so the funds put aside for this program could be used to purchase more strategically significant weapons like the Islander, etc... I have no doubt the MOD intends to carry out the T-72B4 upgrade program.
So there's my 2 cents...

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Interesting...

I have seen photo's here that shows our tanks in heavy maintenance like the turret removed. Maybe our facilities are halfway there already?

[DieHard69]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

It seems you haven't done your research.
The source of tank upgrade was our MoD Spox Artsrun Hovannisyan.
You want to be critical, back your statements up with facts rather than rumors.

Then it was a complete lost opportunity for a secretive contract to surprise our enemy, the PT-72 was a lost cause and disapointed us it should have been signed with an NDA (none disclosure agreement) to not loose credibility for our mod, the T-72B4 should have been signed with a NDA aswell in case the contract was cancelled or the contract was finished and introduced surprising our enemy of what we have now Hovannisyan should of not said anything about in case it was cancelled, and no I used common sense with my thought of our mod cancelling the agreement because if half a year has past and no Upgrades have not even been seen in our arsenal, shouldn't you criticize our mod for not telling us any news about the upgrade?

[DieHard69]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Can we see some pictures Eddo jan?

[DieHard69]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I would love to see you say that if you were manning one of those tanks, or if a family member or friends was. There have been many videos from Syria where a T-90 gets hit and there is no ignition of the ammo store, and there have been videos where the T-90 blows up. Without a doubt, the T-90 is much more survivable...

Regardless, any upgrade that can give our tankers a higher chance of surviving a hit or killing an enemy tank first is worth every penny. Also the Kontakt 1 ERA on the T72-BV's is only effective against shaped charges, not kinetic penetrators (sabot rounds). Kontakt 5 or Relikt are effective agiants both shape charges and kinetic penetrators and are at least twice as effective againts shaped charges, when compared to Kontakt 1. Those T-72B4's will be equipeed with either Kontakt 5 or Relikt, I hope Relikt since this is a more advanced version or Kontakt 5.

I'm sure you are aware of the other upgraded systems and components of the T-72B4 so I don't t need to dive into those, since each of those upgrades are significant as well.

Now as to why there is such a delay, if some of you remember, we were supposed to upgrade out T-72B's to the Polish PT-91 Twardy, but following the Ukranian Revolution of 2014, and subsequent tension between Russia and Europe, that went down the drain. Then it was announced, the T72B's would be upgraded to the T72-B4 standard. So that one reason for the delay.

Another reason, in my opinion, is the logistical aspect of upgrading 100 or more tanks. It would be extremely expensive to fly each T-72 from Armenia to where ever the upgrading plant is in Russia, and then once they are done upgrading, fly them back. From what I have read, it costs about $100,000 for a flight from eastern Europe to Afghanistan, with a full load. At about 45-50 tons(after upgrade) each flight would be at max capacity and the flights for upgrading 100 tanks, would cost 20 million.
I am assuming the MOD has accounted for this and decided to establish a plant within Armenia to do most of the upgrading. (Some components and systems of the tanks would still have to be separated from the tank and shipped to Russia. This takes time to setup, a lot of time.

One more theory is that the tank modernization program has been delayed so the funds put aside for this program could be used to purchase more strategically significant weapons like the Islander, etc... I have no doubt the MOD intends to carry out the T-72B4 upgrade program.
So there's my 2 cents...

the first theory is debunked because the tanks were supposed to be upgraded by our locals because it would have been expensive if it was upgraded in Russia also, one source mentioned the tank numbers to be upgraded were supposed to be 83 so its understandable, the second theory is really understandable but our Iskander arsenal is large having around 4 to 8 launchers, also nice pictures for our Anti-Tank Weapons section Though our Smerch numbers has went to 2 to 12! which sounds nice but too ridiculous.

[ASALA2116]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The Wikipedia pages contradict each other. Apparently we have BM27 Uragans , 20 T80's and one page says 6 Smerches and another 12. While back apparently we also had SU27's. Too much bs .
Let me not forget the 6 AR1A launchers that magically made its way from China to Armenia.

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I would love to see you say that if you were manning one of those tanks, or if a family member or friends was. There have been many videos from Syria where a T-90 gets hit and there is no ignition of the ammo store, and there have been videos where the T-90 blows up. Without a doubt, the T-90 is much more survivable...

Regardless, any upgrade that can give our tankers a higher chance of surviving a hit or killing an enemy tank first is worth every penny. Also the Kontakt 1 ERA on the T72-BV's is only effective against shaped charges, not kinetic penetrators (sabot rounds). Kontakt 5 or Relikt are effective agiants both shape charges and kinetic penetrators and are at least twice as effective againts shaped charges, when compared to Kontakt 1. Those T-72B4's will be equipeed with either Kontakt 5 or Relikt, I hope Relikt since this is a more advanced version or Kontakt 5.

I'm sure you are aware of the other upgraded systems and components of the T-72B4 so I don't t need to dive into those, since each of those upgrades are significant as well.

Now as to why there is such a delay, if some of you remember, we were supposed to upgrade out T-72B's to the Polish PT-91 Twardy, but following the Ukranian Revolution of 2014, and subsequent tension between Russia and Europe, that went down the drain. Then it was announced, the T72B's would be upgraded to the T72-B4 standard. So that one reason for the delay.

Another reason, in my opinion, is the logistical aspect of upgrading 100 or more tanks. It would be extremely expensive to fly each T-72 from Armenia to where ever the upgrading plant is in Russia, and then once they are done upgrading, fly them back. From what I have read, it costs about $100,000 for a flight from eastern Europe to Afghanistan, with a full load. At about 45-50 tons(after upgrade) each flight would be at max capacity and the flights for upgrading 100 tanks, would cost 20 million.
I am assuming the MOD has accounted for this and decided to establish a plant within Armenia to do most of the upgrading. (Some components and systems of the tanks would still have to be separated from the tank and shipped to Russia. This takes time to setup, a lot of time.

One more theory is that the tank modernization program has been delayed so the funds put aside for this program could be used to purchase more strategically significant weapons like the Islander, etc... I have no doubt the MOD intends to carry out the T-72B4 upgrade program.
So there's my 2 cents...

Show me a video of one T-72B or B1 detonating in Syria...
You're talking about the monkey version T-72M1, the old Ural, and AV.

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The Wikipedia pages contradict each other. Apparently we have BM27 Uragans , 20 T80's and one page says 6 Smerches and another 12. While back apparently we also had SU27's. Too much bs .
Let me not forget the 6 AR1A launchers that magically made its way from China to Armenia.

https://razm.info/26493

[/url]

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This thread is full of gurus who can't differentiate their head from their a$$ when it comes to weapons.

[ASALA2116]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This thread is full of gurus who can't differentiate their head from their a$$ when it comes to weapons.

Have you seen any BM27's ? Or any T80's. Or the AR1A ?