Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I know enough to make a logical conclusion Armenia doesn't have a budget to invade a country, and feed its own people at the same time, with this blockade.
To mention a few things:-
You'd need to be atleast 10 times larger in numbers to invade the azeris. We don't have that much trained soldiers.
We need factories that are able to feed the frontlines with supply/equipment for years.
Even if Armenia magically succeeds in doing this, what do you think its neighbors are going to do?
There's alot of factors here that make this plan borderline insane. No need to list them all, i'm sure you can figure them out by yourself.

Do you know how the war in the 90's was fought? I guess you don't or else you wouldn't make statements like this. Like in the last war Armenia can expect to receive supplies from Iran in the form of grain and other kinds of food. It happened in the last war will happen in the next war. Most wars don't take years to fight and end quickly so a nice blitzkrieg is what Armenia needs and I think our veteran force can achieve that. Armenia has untapped resources that our enemies fear, in the last war xxxx loads of weapons were imported by the Diaspora the same thing will happen in the next war.
This scenario is designed for when the Azeris attack first they are the aggressors then and our expansion will be an counter attack. From where did you pull the 10x number from? To storm a castle in the middle ages you needed a three times advantage in men, in the heavily defended Artsakh where the Azeris need to fight uphill they need maximum 5 time as many men as we have positioned there. Even less if they are well trained and equipped.

It doesn't matter what the neighbors say as long as we got Russian support, Iran will have no problem weakening Azerbaijan. Turkeys hands are tied officially, they will have to attack Armenia proper and start a war with Russia and I don't see them risking that for Azerbaijan. Russia would love to see us end all the energy projects that aren't running through Russia. So the only one that will be a problem is Georgia, will they dare to close the border and risk a rebellion in Javakh and Russia starting a second war with the support of the Armenians this time?

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

So the only one that will be a problem is Georgia, will they dare to close the border and risk a rebellion in Javakh and Russia starting a second war with the support of the Armenians this time?

The Achilles heel of Georgia is the BTC gas pipeline.
If that is taken or destroyed/shut ( even for short term, say 6 months ) Georgia will fall in to Russia's lap.

[Vahramig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We have a defeatist attitude as a people! I think this is a problem in the Diaspora more then in Armenia but still a defeatist attitude. We won the first war against great odds, under a blockade. Armenia lost her forests trying to stay warm. Not to mention the fact that we had no weapons except some hunting rifles and maybe a slingshot. The other side had so much more that if we really look at it from an object point of view we should have lost that war.

It seems it does not matter what we achieve, we have too many people that are defeatists. All I have is admiration for a little people of NKR population of less the 250,000 won! Armenia had no tanks, the time I checked we have almost as much as they do. Let them come already and let us finish this. Ararat is next!

Long Live The Republic Of Armenia!

[Artsakh]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I know enough to make a logical conclusion Armenia doesn't have a budget to invade a country, and feed its own people at the same time, with this blockade.
To mention a few things:-
You'd need to be atleast 10 times larger in numbers to invade the azeris. We don't have that much trained soldiers.
We need factories that are able to feed the frontlines with supply/equipment for years.
Even if Armenia magically succeeds in doing this, what do you think its neighbors are going to do?
There's alot of factors here that make this plan borderline insane. No need to list them all, i'm sure you can figure them out by yourself.

Perhaps if Armenia went it alone, that wouldn't be the wisest choice to make. But there are other interests in the region, big power interests. And when looking at the bigger picture, such a scenario playing out isn't completely "crazy." The US and the West are in a xxxx hole, and it's an opportune time to cut their feet from the caucasus region once and for all. Russia isn't an idiot. What they did in Georgia during the recent war, the bringing down of the polish plane carrying all those high ranking polish diplomats, it's all a russian reassertion that they're back. They have their eye on the caucasus, and they're waiting for the right moment. Then there's the Iranian factor. At the same time, there are forces who are working against Armenia, and whose intent it is to destroy Armenia off the map, and Turkey is the obvious example, but there are bigger interests at play as well. And if destroying Armenia is seriously in the cards and on the agenda of certain forces, I don't see why taking additional territory from "Azerbaijan" has to be a fantasy?

[Artsakh]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We have a defeatist attitude as a people! I think this is a problem in the Diaspora more then in Armenia but still a defeatist attitude. We won the first war against great odds, under a blockade. Armenia lost her forests trying to stay warm. Not to mention the fact that we had no weapons except some hunting rifles and maybe a slingshot. The other side had so much more that if we really look at it from an object point of view we should have lost that war.

It seems it does not matter what we achieve, we have too many people that are defeatists. All I have is admiration for a little people of NKR population of less the 250,000 won! Armenia had no tanks, the time I checked we have almost as much as they do. Let them come already and let us finish this. Ararat is next!

Long Live The Republic Of Armenia!

Ah, let those individuals talk, their outlook probably comes from their personal views of themselves. How they are (loosers), is how they like to see others. Our nation's history is full of heroism and going against the odds. Look at the battle of vartanats. Despite being outnumbered and out gunned, we destroyed more Persians than gave marthrs on the battlefield. Look at Sartarabat. Look at Bash Aparan.
During the Soviet years, all the generals we produced. And please, for you uneduated ones, the Armenian Genocide was just that, GENOCIDE. IT WAS NOT WAR. Armenians were citizens living within the Ottom Empire, and were butchered by their own govt. For example, if the US govt made a decision to destroy all the Armenians within the US, the Armenians are citizens living in that country, they are not a separate entity doing war with the US. I don't understand how some people don't get this.

[Vahramig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Artsakh brother, the problem is we are a small people. Eache looser is a problem, each looser is killing the collective spirit. It is easy to kill the Armenians, when they are woemn, and childeren, when they don't have arms. The Armenian is not that easy when and Armenian is awake. We suffered really badly, the reason was becuase we were asleep. You can kill anyone in their sleep, but cowerds choose this path. The Turks are a week race, they kill inoncent people and think they are strong. What would Golipoli be without the Germans? We were taken for a ride, a lot of people made money off our blood.

Ever since we became Christians we have suffered. Becuase we are as a general rule an honest people. We do things by the book and keep things clean. That is why when you go around the world Armenians are respected. But we were asleep, we will not sleep again. Just what to do about the defeatists? They are not asleep they are wide awake, but they have little use.

[Artsakh]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/174967.html

Baku silent on Israel spying activityFri Apr 15, 2011 4:35PM

[Azerbaijan's government remains tight-lipped on revelations
indicating that Baku has been helping Israel with its spying
activities against Iran.]

Secret documents released by WikiLeaks almost a week ago indicate that
Israel has been using the ex-Soviet republic's soil in the past four
years to spy on the Islamic Republic, a Press TV correspondent quoted
informed Azeri sources as saying.

The document in the US Embassy in Baku, sent to Washington in January
2009, refers to a visit by the Azeri president's advisor for security
and defense issues, Vahid Aliyev, to Israel.

The trip allegedly taken for medical treatment was reportedly aimed at
signing a security agreement with Tel Aviv.

The contract allowed Israel to use Azerbaijan's soil for its spying
activities against Iran, says a US diplomatic cable released by the
WikiLeaks, which also discloses an arms deal between the two sides.

According to the leaked cables, Azerbaijani authorities banned all
anti-Israeli protest gatherings anywhere near Tel Aviv's Embassy in
Baku during the Israeli offensive against the Gaza Strip at the turn
of 2009.

The officials, however, allowed demonstrations in front of the Iranian Embassy.

Prior to leak, there had been reports on the operation of Israeli
spying cells on the Iranian-Azeri border under the cover of farming
activities.

Separatist groups and members of terrorist Mujahedin-e Khalq
Organization are also freely operating within Azerbaijan's borders
despite Tehran's siding with Baku on various issues, including its
territorial dispute with Armenia.

The close ties between Israel and the former Soviet republic comes at
a time when anti-Israeli sentiments are on the rise among the Muslim
people of Azerbaijan -- who account for nearly 99 percent of the
population in the central Asian state.

Muslim communities in Azerbaijan blame Tel Aviv for the growing
secularism, including a hijab ban in certain schools, in the country.

[Artsakh]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Artsakh brother, the problem is we are a small people. Eache looser is a problem, each looser is killing the collective spirit. It is easy to kill the Armenians, when they are woemn, and childeren, when they don't have arms. The Armenian is not that easy when and Armenian is awake. We suffered really badly, the reason was becuase we were asleep. You can kill anyone in their sleep, but cowerds choose this path. The Turks are a week race, they kill inoncent people and think they are strong. What would Golipoli be without the Germans? We were taken for a ride, a lot of people made money off our blood.

Ever since we became Christians we have suffered. Becuase we are as a general rule an honest people. We do things by the book and keep things clean. That is why when you go around the world Armenians are respected. But we were asleep, we will not sleep again. Just what to do about the defeatists? They are not asleep they are wide awake, but they have little use.

Brother, let those bitter people do and say as they please. They are a lost cause, and we've got more important things to focus on.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Do you know how the war in the 90's was fought? I guess you don't or else you wouldn't make statements like this. Like in the last war Armenia can expect to receive supplies from Iran in the form of grain and other kinds of food. It happened in the last war will happen in the next war. Most wars don't take years to fight and end quickly so a nice blitzkrieg is what Armenia needs and I think our veteran force can achieve that. Armenia has untapped resources that our enemies fear, in the last war xxxx loads of weapons were imported by the Diaspora the same thing will happen in the next war.
This scenario is designed for when the Azeris attack first they are the aggressors then and our expansion will be an counter attack. From where did you pull the 10x number from? To storm a castle in the middle ages you needed a three times advantage in men, in the heavily defended Artsakh where the Azeris need to fight uphill they need maximum 5 time as many men as we have positioned there. Even less if they are well trained and equipped.

It doesn't matter what the neighbors say as long as we got Russian support, Iran will have no problem weakening Azerbaijan. Turkeys hands are tied officially, they will have to attack Armenia proper and start a war with Russia and I don't see them risking that for Azerbaijan. Russia would love to see us end all the energy projects that aren't running through Russia. So the only one that will be a problem is Georgia, will they dare to close the border and risk a rebellion in Javakh and Russia starting a second war with the support of the Armenians this time?

you're comparing the 90s to now?
First of all, Azeris barely had an army, neither did we. They have enough resources to fight a war for years, how many battles can we afford?
And how exactly do you plan to invade without having an airforce?
I'm all for liberating more land, but this is not how you do it. This is fantasy.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

you're comparing the 90s to now?
First of all, Azeris barely had an army, neither did we. They have enough resources to fight a war for years, how many battles can we afford?
And how exactly do you plan to invade without having an airforce?
I'm all for liberating more land, but this is not how you do it. This is fantasy.

I think we can afford many battles, and the moment the Azeris can not export their oil it's the begin of their end. How many battles do you think an army can lose before its moral falls to zero, an army that has momentum can destroy an army many times its size. The Azeris won't have an airforce after their initial attack why would we need an airforce, our ground forces will do just fine, we got more than enough confidence in them.

And thank god people like you weren't in charge of our army in the 90's or are now, or else we couldn't have won even one battle.