Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Yerevanski92]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

From this side the rifle action looks more like a Savage, if it is not a local design. In the USA many small companies make their own rifle actions now. Since CNC machining got smaller and cheaper this could be done in Armenia also. That style of stock is called a "chassis" and many small manufacturers make them for many different rifle actions. Again, this could be made in Armenia. All you have to do is take the action and bolt it to the chassis (care must be taken to torque each bolt to exactly the same N-m (Newton meters) every time or the rifle will shoot to a different point of aim every time it is taken out of and then put back into the stock).

So, that rifle could be made or assembled in Armenia. Of course, it would be helpful to send someone to work at, or hire someone away from, a custom rifle builder like Tsar Cannon to get things right. The SV-98, which was supposed to be Russia's answer to the British Accuracy International (AI) rifle, is less accurate and serves as a warning to those who want to cut corners in rifle design and manufacture.

I wonder what cartridge the rifle shoots. NATO now favors the 8.58x70mm cartridge (for long range) while Russia favors the 9.3×64mm (for shooting through body armor). Both cartidges are powerful but do not require the same large size rifle that the 12.7x108mm cartridge requires.

The rifle behind the mysterious chassis rifle is an Accuracy International (AI) rifle with a folding stock (visible in this picture) and a supressor (visible in the first picture), although I don't know the model of the rifle. Supressors are great if the other side does not have thermal scopes, as supressors can heat up quickly.

Examples of small American rifle action manufacturers

Example of rifle chassis

Another example of rifle chassis

Problem: solved
Steyr-Mannlicher SSG 08 sniper rifle (Austria)

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-rifles/at/steyr-ssg-0-e.html

[Yerevanski92]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Also I am pretty good with weapon knowledge, ask me away on weapons if needed.

[Yerevanski92]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The other two bolt action sniper rifles present in the image.
Accuracy International Arctic Warfare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare

and its larger caliber variant
Accuracy International AWM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_AWM

[arakeretzig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The other two bolt action sniper rifles present in the image.
Accuracy International Arctic Warfare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare

and its larger caliber variant
Accuracy International AWM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_AWM

so, whats the final verdict on the weapons in order according to the first pic?
Also, this is first time i hear Armenia using NATO weapons, there must be have been a good reason for them to do that...

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://razm.info/1662

[Spetsnaz]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Հունվար 09, 2012 | 14:45

Իրանն ավելի քան տասը տարի է, ինչ սպառնալիքներով է հանդես գալիս հարեւան Ադրբեջանի դեմ: Այդ մասին ասված է վերլուծաբան Սթիվեն Բլանկի` The Washington Times–ում տպագրված հոդվածում:

Հեղինակի կարծիքով, ամենալուրջ խնդիրներից մեկը ոչ միայն Ադրբեջանի` ամերիկամետ եւ իսրայելամետ դիրքորոշումն է, այլ մտավախությունը, որ Բաքուն կարող է զբաղեցնել Իրանի հյուսիս-արեւմտյան հատվածը, որտեղ էթնիկ ադրբեջանցիներ են բնակվում: Բնականաբար, անհրաժեշտ է հավելել նաեւ Իրանի վախը, որ Ադրբեջանը կարող է ստանալ Իսրայելի եւ ԱՄՆ-ի օժանդակությունը, եւ դառնալ հենակետ Իսլամական հանրապետության դեմ ուղղված գործողության ժամանակ:

«Իրանը ղարաբաղյան ճգնաժամի ժամանակ պաշտպանում էր Հայաստանի կողմից անվիճելիորեն Ադրբեջանի մաս հանդիսացող տարածքների նվաճումը: Իր հերթին, Հայաստանը պարբերաբար դեմ էր քվեարկում Իրանի դեմ ուղղված ՄԱԿ-ի ընդունած բանաձեւերին»,-գրում է Բլանկը:

[Aralez]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Also, this is first time i hear Armenia using NATO weapons, there must be have been a good reason for them to do that...

According to the Wikipedia link that Yerevanski92 kindly provided, even Russia is using the AI AWM for elite units, and they put a German Zeiss Hensoldt SSG scope on it. If you look at pictures of rifles from the Russian Tsar Cannon shop, they often have American Nightforce scopes on them. NATO has put a lot of effort into sniping because of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Problem: solved
Steyr-Mannlicher SSG 08 sniper rifle (Austria)
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-r...r-ssg-0-e.html

http://razm.info/1662

Thanks for the confirmation.

Here's a closeup of the Austrian sniper rifle

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Don't expect anything from the Russian "Tsar Cannon Shop" (Tsar Pushka), it is no longer in business.
There is a new high quality/high accuracy Russian gunmaker. The name is Orsis: http://www.orsis.com/

Otherwise, the usual Russian sniper riples come from Izhmash: the semi-automatic SVD (Dragunov) and the SV-98. The former is extensively used by our Army but it is not considered to be a "true" high precision sniper rifle. The bolt action SV-98 is more accurate and is used by our special police units (some army units may have it too). The Austrian "Steyr" and the English "Accuracy International" products are said to be even better.

As for large caliber (12.7 mm) sniper rifles, it is interesting that we bought "Black Arrow" sniper rifles from Serbia rather than similar OSV-96 (made by KBP) or KSKSV (made by Degtyarev)from Russia.

By the way, making high precision sniper rifles is not simple. It is high-tech stuff and requires lots of skills and experience. Few countries in this world master that. The Azeri "Istiqlal" is a crude attempt that is good enough to hit large objects (like vehicles) at distances exceeding 1000m, not so good against people at those same distances.

[Aralez]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Otherwise, the usual Russian sniper riples come from Izhmash: the semi-automatic SVD (Dragunov) and the SV-98. The former is extensively used by our Army but it is not considered to be a "true" high precision sniper rifle. The bolt action SV-98 is more accurate and is used by our special police units (some army units may have it too). The Austrian "Steyr" and the English "Accuracy International" products are said to be even better.

I think the SVD is very good for what NATO calls a "designated marksman" which is a system where the best shot in an infantry squad is given 2 weeks extra marksmanship training and a scoped rifle capable of shooting to 600 meters. Designated marksmen do not receive the reconnaissance and deception training that snipers receive, and the marksmanship training is not as good.

As I understand it, the basic requirement of a modern NATO sniper rifle is that it must be able to shoot 1.5 centimeter groups at 100 meters and also be very reliable. The Accuracy International rifles do both of these things well and that is why they are used by so many countries.

I have heard some people talk about two categories beyond the "normal" sniping range (from 400 meters or "just beyond the range at which your enemy can shoot well" to 1000 meters). The first is called Extended or Extra Long Range (ELR) which is from 1000 to 2000 meters and the second is called Ultra Long Range (ULR) which is from 2000 - 3000 meters. The AI AWM is an ELR rifle. Of course, for ELR other equipment, such as laser range finders and a small computer to calculate aiming solutions, is also needed. Also, lots of training with expensive ammunition.

As for large caliber (12.7 mm) sniper rifles, it is interesting that we bought "Black Arrow" sniper rifles from Serbia rather than similar OSV-96 (made by KBP) or KSKSV (made by Degtyarev)from Russia.

Could be cost, could be delivery time, could be to make a point, or it could be that a weapon would come with limits on where it can be used.

By the way, making high precision sniper rifles is not simple. It is high-tech stuff and requires lots of skills and experience. Few countries in this world master that. The Azeri "Istiqlal" is a crude attempt that is good enough to hit large objects (like vehicles) at distances exceeding 1000m, not so good against people at those same distances.

The problem with making sniper rifles seems to be economic as well as the need for very specialized skills. Orders for sniper rifles are often not enough to support the private companies who do the work. Accuracy International, one of the biggest companies, is said to have almost gone bankrupt several times. For years, US sniper rifles were made by special military units. It is only with two wars and increasing the number of military snipers by two or three times the pre-war number that the orders are enough to support private companies who make equipment for snipers. Even then, they depend on orders from civilian shooters also.

Of course the rifle needs a good scope and match ammunition. Will match ammunition for the NATO rifles be made locally? The good news is that special ammunition sizes just for sniping means that nobody will ever force snipers to use regular ammunition. The bad news is that snipers cannot use regular ammunition in an emergency.

United States reinvents the need for the SVD (ignore ignorance about Soviet sniping):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman