Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems

[Haykakan]

Re: Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems

Man! Will you ever read the godforsaken post? I don't know, maybe my English is not as clearly and unequivocally simple and foolproof as I tear myself apart to make it. Damn it dude, put your eyeglasses and READ:

I suggest we take out ONLY the ONE WORD: “existing”, from the whole protocol and sign the goddamn thing, to get the upper hand in the negotiations and neutralize the illegally inserted, genocidal Turkic preconditions in this text, written by the TARC bastard, the Jew David Philips.

By doing this we will have implicitly RAISED the Wilson issue at no cost.

NOT THAT I EXPECT, AND I QUOTE FROM THE POST, THAT:

”from one day to the other Turks will cede the territory, but with the raising of the Wilson arbitration issue, the Turk (and the international Jewry) will lose their weapon of the Armenian Genocide denial”

To hell with it, I desperately add another explanation: Just raise the issue to put the cattle-herder, territory-worshipping Turk in a panic, not expecting the actual ceding of territory sometime soon. The Turk denies the Armenian Genocide because the Jew has fooled them and us into believing that after the recognition of the AG, they'll have to part with land, the worst nightmare of the genocidal nomads that scares them shitless.

No one has ever been able to show us why raising the issue is not in our favor, yet the self-appointed “experts” will go as far as it takes (not sparing ad hominems and insults) to discredit the Wilson arbitration and render the only Armenian-friendly document in history worthless.

Capice? I don't think so.

Sure man whatever you say. I can see why we would raise the issue since they are raising a few themselves. I think the problem is that they are in a stronger position then us thus they feel they can raise other issues but we cant. We need the open border more then they do thus they have preconditions the way they want them worded and not the other way around. It would be best to have no preconditions but....

[Mukuch]

Re: Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems

Sure man whatever you say. I can see why we would raise the issue since they are raising a few themselves. I think the problem is that they are in a stronger position then us thus they feel they can raise other issues but we cant. We need the open border more then they do thus they have preconditions the way they want them worded and not the other way around. It would be best to have no preconditions but....

But what?

You still didnt get that this is not about "open border"....

[Hellektor]

Re: Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems

Hellektor.... can you write all that in plain English? Just kidding, always appreciate your clear, concise, and anti-bullsh!t posts

Thanks for the chance to repeat this in yet another manner, as clearly as possible and for the nth time, for those who are still in the same dashnakophobic, brainwashed state, believing everything pointing to the first Republic inevitably must interest only certain so-called ultranationalists:

Someone tell me why we shouldn't use our most powerful and 100% legally valid document of international law to piss off the genocidal barbarians. To be ultra clear: I am not saying we'll immediately get land back.

Don't Turks howl like wolves and whimper like swine about the tiny historically Armenian land we have liberated, at any and every occasion, disregarding any and every rule of decorum that “Armenia should cede the “occupied” “Azeri” territories NOW!” and that to the sore, genocidal, warmongering “Azeri” losers that hold absolutely no single document regarding the validity of any claim on any part of Artsakh, historically, morally or legally?

If we would only raise this totally just and valid issue, we could on all those occasions deliver a painful slap in the brazen muzzle of the genocidal occupiers and destroyers of our homeland by just saying, “you, Mongol savages, first get the phuk out of our home you've been illegally occupying since 1920, then we see what we can do”.

What is wrong with that? To complete the picture, just imagine the Turk had a single valid document of international law regarding the borders with Armenia… Just think about it for a second and see whether they wouldn’t force the Judeo-Saxon sonofabitchery to nuke Armenia.

[londontsi]

Re: Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems

I think the problem is that they are in a stronger position then us thus they feel they can raise other issues but we cant. We need the open border more then they do thus they have preconditions the way they want them worded and not the other way around. It would be best to have no preconditions but....

Its is just as important for them to open borders. Pressure exists on them through EU as well as the US. In any event its a precondition for EU membership.

Its just awkward for them because they closed the borders in the first place. It will also be an admittance of a failed policy.

As for the current diplomacy, we are stronger but we do not seem to see it.
It has been stated numerous times and not only from the Armenian side that any agreement will have to be without preconditions.

Therefore the President/ FM should throw back any document that comes across the table with the slightest hint of preconditions.

Better have a late agreement than a bad agreement.
The whole idea of signing an agreement before a football match is ridiculus. Let the president watch football on the bloody TV.

[Army]

Re: Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems

Well... I think freedom of speech in Turkey is not that bad. Since there are lots of writers and journalists discussing on Armenian and Kurdish problems. Yes; Hrant Dink was murdered and that is unacceptable. But you should also notice that Turkey had a Hrant Dink and countless opposition voices. I wonder who is the Dink of Armenia?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems

Well... I think freedom of speech in Turkey is not that bad. Since there are lots of writers and journalists discussing on Armenian and Kurdish problems. Yes; Hrant Dink was murdered and that is unacceptable. But you should also notice that Turkey had a Hrant Dink and countless opposition voices. I wonder who is the Dink of Armenia?

Armenia has quite a few political prisoners, and a number of journalists are amongst them. But I don't think there is anyone who has the status or the public notability of Dink. Armenia, like Turkey, has its share of thugs who, under the guise of hunting out the "traitors", will physically harm anyone who is writing against what the establishment wants or against what the thug believes to be right. We already have seen in this thread a death threat made against the President of Armenia by the Armenian equivalent of the attitudes that encouraged the Turkish nationalist fanatic who murdered Dink. The actual threat has been deleted - but the poster who made it is still being allowed to spread his attitudes.
However, freedom of speech in either Turkey or Armenia does not consist of just being able to talk openly about the Armenian Genocide. That issue is of no importance to the everyday lives of both Turks or Armenians. The things that do have importance - such as fighting against corruption, criminals, and nepotism, encouraging democratic institutions and attitudes, safeguarding personal freedoms, pluralism and freedom of choice in the media - they are all far more freely and widely discussed in Turkey than they are in Armenia.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems

We already have seen in this thread a death threat made against the President of Armenia by the Armenian equivalent of the attitudes that encouraged the Turkish nationalist fanatic who murdered Dink. The actual threat has been deleted - but the poster who made it is still being allowed to spread his attitudes.

Actually, that was in another thread... and at 17 years old, the kid that murdered Hrant Dink wasn't old enough to be a nationalist fanatic. More likely, he was an impressionable youngster that was managed and manipulated by higher powers.

[Army]

Re: Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems

Actually, that was in another thread... and at 17 years old, the kid that murdered Hrant Dink wasn't old enough to be a nationalist fanatic. More likely, he was an impressionable youngster that was managed and manipulated by higher powers.

Even the most idiotic strategician would know that killing someone like Dink would harm Turkey more than Dink's writtings itself. However, I also agree that the murdering process and plans were too complex for a 17 years old guy. It was definitely some dark powers who wanted to cause more problems to Ankara-Armenian relationships and to the AKP government. %99 it was Ergenekon behind.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems

Even the most idiotic strategician would know that killing someone like Dink would harm Turkey more than Dink's writtings itself. However, I also agree that the murdering process and plans were too complex for a 17 years old guy. It was definitely some dark powers who wanted to cause more problems to Ankara-Armenian relationships and to the AKP government. %99 it was Ergenekon behind.

I think there is way too much of this "Ergenekon did it", "Ergenekon was behind it" going around. It often seems to be just a convenient excuse that the general population uses to avoid facing up to and reforming their own bad attitudes, and a stick the religious right uses to threaten its secularist opponents. It wasn't Ergenekon that manipulated the suspect to be photographed standing proudly in front of a Turkish flag - it was the ordinary police in Trabzon, police who held the same basic views as the murderer.

[Army]

Re: Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems

I think there is way too much of this "Ergenekon did it", "Ergenekon was behind it" going around. It often seems to be just a convenient excuse that the general population uses to avoid facing up to and reforming their own bad attitudes, and a stick the religious right uses to threaten its secularist opponents. It wasn't Ergenekon that manipulated the suspect to be photographed standing proudly in front of a Turkish flag - it was the ordinary police in Trabzon, police who held the same basic views as the murderer.

Basic (non-officer) policemen are just simple minded people who failed to enter an university. Who gave the gun to that child; who sent him to Istanbul; who told him where Dink works and what time he would leave; who gave him the money and plans to escape etc are more important and too complex for just a few fascist policemen or thugs to manage.

If you could remember the attack to Turkish supreme court was also did by one man but it is revealed that there are more people in it. And also the attacker was in close contact with the Ergenekon members; even worked for them as a lawyer for years. However, the terrorists did not expect him to get caught... so their plan failed on the last stage (escaping) and got revealed.