Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

You never know what Azerbaijan will be to Turkey in the future, but currently they are pushing and fueling Turkism is Azerbaijan. The ambition so far is to expand their influence using the race card AND religion card. Only in 2011 they were "friends of Syria," and now they are funneling terrorist into Syria.

little do Azeris know that once the Turks are done with the Kurds they are next......Turkism is bigger now in Azerbaijan than Turkey (as it seems) and the push is from Azeri Greywolfs into northern Iran, Tabriz area.



OK guys say Russia decides not to be an ally of Armenia tomorrow (close the base and left town), will Turkey attack?

A Nato member, 3rd largest military, attacking little Armenia without provocation
political nightmare for ruling party once it turns into a bloody insurgency war
The Christian world will cry continuation of Genocide? lol
Problems from Iran and Russia in decreasing their sphere of influence and bringing NATO to their back door
Destabelising a region that is imperetive for the West to stay stable.
Is Armenia even worth it

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

If Russia decides not to be an ally of Armenia tomorrow will Turkey attack?

A Nato member, 3rd largest military, attacking little Armenia without provocation
political nightmare for ruling party once it turns into a bloody insurgency war
The Christian world will cry continuation of Genocide? lol
Problems from Iran and Russia in decreasing their sphere of influence and bringing NATO to their back door
Destabelising a region that is imperetive for the West to stay stable.
Is Armenia even worth it

To answer my own question

1 I don't think Turkey would have a big problem here
2 I see big problem here
3 No problem for Turkey here
4 Big problem for them, also Iran and Russia supply 90 percent of Turkey's energy
5 some problem here, they may have to wait until the West is done in Syria and plans on Iran
6 I think Armenia is worth it to them however they fear the Diaspora more than Armenia.

[hagopn]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I certainly agree with the first point she is highlighting, the fallacy of relying, trusting and hoping in "Christian Governments".

Oh, I agree. I meant to say last part of the paragraph.

Second point could be subjective.
You have to remember the environment of the times.
Harsh and oppressive government, populations terrorised with previous local massacres in mind etc.

The social structure was a feudal, peasantry and aloof elite.
Everything had to be done covertly.

Covertly organise and recruit member in a relatively large geographic area with poor communications ( of the times).
Covert financing and smuggling of arms etc.
Loyal to the Government ( Armenian ) citizens etc.

As a matter of fact revolutions do not start with most of the population being armed, prepared, aware etc.

It is started with diehard idealist/visionary/revolutionary core.
Once they appear to be effective its following builds and enters the virtuous cycle and gain recruits.

If you have read Raffi’s "Khente" it portrays the structure and the mood of society of the time.

.

I have read Khent@, but i have also read the editor, benefactor, mentor, advisor to Raffi, Grigor Artsruni. Raffi's ideas were mostly sourced from the writings in Mshak, which was the forum for the Raffis and Leos of the time, the paper that saw the prints of particularly his (Artsruni's) many editorials.

Quite frankly, they, the entourage of Portukalian, Yergarian, Artsruni, etc. had already calculated what critical mass they needed, where they needed to concentrate power, where to have a series of strategic weapons caches, who they needed to have trained and on alert... They in essence had bothered to do a careful enough study of the situation before plugging away at any insurrection. The spring chicken "revolutionaries" that came in later in the game and started blowing up banks destroyed any chance of survival for the absolutely unprepared rural and township populations. Not once did you see any strategic maneuvering.

Yes, the spring chickens were aware of Artsruni's work and his ideas, his weapons depots, and so on. In fact, the Aygestan depot was exposed to the Turkish gendarmes by a spring chicken Dashnak who was "upset because he wanted revenge for being denied the hand of a girl in marriage." This was collected first hand from a genocide survivor interview.

No one bothered to consult the more experienced politicians and leaders, and instead focused their attention on "libertee, egalitee, fraternitee, Ottoman Constitution" with banners of "Vote for Ittihad" carried by Dashnak youth. To his credit, Aram Manugian - an exception to the Dashnak rule - was actually trying to cooperate with Yergarian. The older Hnchak party was also a non-national leftist movement at the core that had no intention of joining an Armeno-centered movement, and they simply also ignored all warning against such rash and impatient acts that would, and always did, only manage to garner retribution in the form of massacres.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Londontsi one thing she does say which I very much agree is that we cannot (nor have the ability) to fight two fronts at the same time....

[hagopn]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

The Ittihad simply leveraged this "leftism" and disarmed, completely the "brave revolutionaries." Played like an banjo they were.

[hagopn]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Londontsi one thing she does say which I very much agree is that we cannot (nor have the ability) to fight two fronts at the same time....

Much of her thoughts are correct, but she too seems to be out of the loop and following the lead of "revolutionary" sources.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Hakob yes you can look up stuff on google about anything including Armenian things but did you know that google is scanning all books and other sources information and making itself pretty much the sole source of knowledge..once it establishes a monopoly on knowledge what do you think it intends to do with it? Don't you think the same sources which control our media today will control the internet?
Eddo jan i like many things about you but your inability to realize how powerful our enemies and allies are and how insignificant our diaspora is has been frustrating to watch bro. You really think that if Turkey wanted to attack Armenia that the diaspora or the EU would be able to stop it? I think you do believe this despite the fact that i have so many times pointed out the utter fallacy of such presumtions. There is nothing besides Russia between an Armenian republic and a panturkist wet dream but a lot of Armos just refuse to accept this out of pride or hate.
Hagopn you yet again give us great examples of how the inability to unite and centralize is our weakness (the dashnak traitor example). Yes i agree that our urge for independence is there and is strong yet our ability to survive in the present world(even in the past) depends on unity and centralization.
I prefer Russia over the west because the west is being run by special interest groups which care nothing about the western nations let alone us. This means the western nations will decline since their interests are secondary to corporate interests. Russia also has much stronger interests in this region then the west with Armenia being a most important wedge against panturkism..

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Eddo jan i like many things about you but your inability to realize how powerful our enemies and allies are and how insignificant our diaspora is has been frustrating to watch bro. You really think that if Turkey wanted to attack Armenia that the diaspora or the EU would be able to stop it?
I think you do believe this despite the fact that i have so many times pointed out the utter fallacy of such presumtions.

No I don't believe that.....when I say Turkey fears Diaspora more than Armenia means that Turkey knows that militarily they can conquer Armenia no problem but they can never take out the Diaspora scattered all over the world and being the biggest pain in their butt. The Genocide card remains in play forever
and Armenians cannot be destroyed
They would love to have us all in Armenia

What I say has nothing to do with Armenian volunteers from Diaspora in case of war.

There is nothing besides Russia between an Armenian republic and a panturkist wet dream but a lot of Armos just refuse to accept this out of pride or hate.

This is where I have a problem....its not pride or hate, its the desire for liberty and sovereignty and having destiny in our hands, not Russia or US or Iran or Turkey. We must work towards that goal of full independence in future but we will never get their when we put our faith in others.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

"We must work towards that goal of full independence in future"
I agree with you there but today the facts on the ground dictate sticking to Russia.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I just was watching about situation in Bulgaria after becoming a member of EU.
The economy s pretty bad, about 60% unemployment in cities. Noting promised by EU has become reality so far. There is widespread corrupion on such level that even some western diplomats and businesses are involved in stealing EU grants. There is a big energy crisis because countriy's only nucklear power plnt was shut down to 25% capacity and Bulgaria has to buy "green" electricity from west 8-10 times more expencive.
This is a country with beutifull black sea beaches and very fertile land and was a major agricultural exporter. Now most of the products on shelfs are from turkey. The agriculure is in ruins because Bulgarian farms cannot compete with french, German, Belgian or dutch subsidised products, or turkish onslaught.
Population has dwindled down from 9mln to 7. There is widespread migration in such levels that some villages have no young residents anymore.