EU-Armenia Relations

[Mos]

Re: EU-Armenia Relations

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Raul de Luzenberger: EU has opened doors before Armenia

“I believe that the EU policy is a serious program, with a focus on all issues faced by civil society. The key objective of the program is to bring the member states nearer to Europe, and I can confidently say that the main tasks have been fulfilled,” Head of the European Commission Delegation to Armenia, Ambassador Raul de Luzenberger said, addressing the European Integration Forum.

The forum has been initiated by the Armenian-European Policy and Legal Advice Center (AEPLAC), EU Advisory Group to the Republic of Armenia, and the International Center for Human Development (ICHD).

“The European Union has opened the doors, with Armenia going through them. We seek a complete integration of the Armenian civil society to the European community, and we expect a real and interested dialogue,” Luzenberger said.

[lampron]

Re: EU-Armenia Relations

on one hand EU bosses are keen to develop relations with Russia (especially energy), but on the other, want to take Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia away from Russian influence. Essentially EU chiefs want to decide who countries like Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan..should have relations with. So they are probably unhappy about Armenia's relations with Iran. They are basically opposed to karabakh's independence, but are happy to co-operate with the dictatorship in Azerbaijan

[Mos]

Re: EU-Armenia Relations

on one hand EU bosses are keen to develop relations with Russia (especially energy), but on the other, want to take Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia away from Russian influence. Essentially EU chiefs want to decide who countries like Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan..should have relations with. So they are probably unhappy about Armenia's relations with Iran. They are basically opposed to karabakh's independence, but are happy to co-operate with the dictatorship in Azerbaijan

Everybody is willing to cooperate with Azerbaijan because they have oil and gas. That being said, Armenian Government has from the start declared European integration as a centrepiece to our foreign policy, this shouldn't be interpreted as changing our military ties (which lie with Russia). Rather, it our political ties that are becoming more and more involved with EU structures, we are brining laws to EU standards, and of course our economic relations with Europe is also very big.

EU's relationship with Russia is very important, for EU, because they rely on Russia gas. The previous Chancellor of Germany was good buddies with Putin, and same with France. EU is not as anti-Iranian as USA. Actually one EU country, Austria, has very close relations with Iran, especially in economic sector. They even have sent weapons to Iran for which they were condemned. Don't confuse the EU foreign policy with US's.

[lampron]

Re: EU-Armenia Relations

Everybody is willing to cooperate with Azerbaijan because they have oil and gas. That being said, Armenian Government has from the start declared European integration as a centrepiece to our foreign policy, this shouldn't be interpreted as changing our military ties (which lie with Russia). Rather, it our political ties that are becoming more and more involved with EU structures, we are brining laws to EU standards, and of course our economic relations with Europe is also very big.

EU's relationship with Russia is very important, for EU, because they rely on Russia gas. The previous Chancellor of Germany was good buddies with Putin, and same with France. EU is not as anti-Iranian as USA. Actually one EU country, Austria, has very close relations with Iran, especially in economic sector. They even have sent weapons to Iran for which they were condemned. Don't confuse the EU foreign policy with US's.

Ancient civilizations existed in Armenia, Persia, Greece, Egypt when Europeans were tribal societies

The EU is mainly about empire building and today it is more active in the Caucasus than the US

It is important for Armenia to adopt European standards of government, business, legal system, just as Turkey
has been doing. But unless the EU changes its anti-karabakh position, Armenia will not be a very close partner

Armenia's neighbors of influence - Russia, Iran and Turkey see themselves as alternative centers of power to the EU

[Mos]

Re: EU-Armenia Relations

Ancient civilizations existed in Armenia, Persia, Greece, Egypt when Europeans were tribal societies

The EU is mainly about empire building and today it is more active in the Caucasus than the US

It is important for Armenia to adopt European standards of government, business, legal system, just as Turkey
has been doing. But unless the EU changes its anti-karabakh position, Armenia will not be a very close partner

Armenia's neighbors of influence - Russia, Iran and Turkey see themselves as alternative centers of power to the EU

EU is not anti-Karabakh. If you are talking about them supporting Azerbaijan's "territorial integrity" every country has done that, including Russia.

oscow reiterated its support for Azerbaijan's territorial integrity on Monday in the wake of parliamentary elections in Upper (Nagorno) Garabagh, an Azerbaijani region with a predominantly ethnic Armenian population, Russian RIA Novosti news agency reported.
The region, which has been a source of conflict between the former Soviet republics of Armenia and Azerbaijan since the late 1980s, elected its 33-seat “parliament” on Sunday.
"Moscow is not convinced that the peace settlement of the conflict might depend on the results of the Nagorno Garabagh elections," a spokesman for the Russian Foreign Ministry, Andrei Nesterenko, said.
Ethnic Armenians in Upper Garabagh, backed by Armenia, declared so-called independence in fighting that erupted as the Soviet Union headed towards its 1991 collapse. The war left over 30,000 people dead on both sides. The Armenians invaded Upper Garabagh and seven surrounding Azeri districts before a cease-fire was declared in 1994.
"Moscow supports the principle of Azerbaijan's territorial integrity, as well as other fundamental norms and principles of international law. As you know, we don't recognize Nagorno Garabagh as an independent state," he said.
The conflict is mediated by the OSCE Minsk Group, comprising the United States, Russia and France.
"We are convinced that the future status [of Nagorno Garabagh] should be defined without the use of force, as a result of political negotiations between all parties within the framework of the Minsk process," Nesterenko said.*

Actually EU has been mulling to put sanctions on Azerbaijan. They don't want to really get involved in the Karabakh mess, they leave that to Russia effectively.

[lampron]

Re: EU-Armenia Relations

EU is not anti-Karabakh. If you are talking about them supporting Azerbaijan's "territorial integrity" every country has done that, including Russia.



.

The EU has condemned elections in Karabakh (but it welcomes them in kosovo and Northern Cyprus)

[Mos]

Re: EU-Armenia Relations

The EU has condemned elections in Karabakh (but it welcomes them in kosovo and Northern Cyprus)

So did these countries

Various international organisations and countries issued statements refusing to recognise the 2010 elections in Nagorno-Karabakh, among them the OSCE,[11] the European Union,[12] the United Kingdom,[13] France,[14] Iran,[15] Russia,[16] Turkey,[17] Greece,[18] Georgia,[19] Lithuania,[20] and Romania.[21]

[lampron]

Re: EU-Armenia Relations

So did these countries

So Russia was opposed to it, but it has a military alliance with Armenia. France was opposed to it but has never
offered military assistance to Armenia (but sent humanitarian assistance to Nakhichevan in the 1990s, claiming it
was under "blockade", but not to Karabakh)

In any case I thought the EU was a long way ahead of Russia and Iran when it came to respecting democratic elections

[Mos]

Re: EU-Armenia Relations

So Russia was opposed to it, but it has a military alliance with Armenia. France was opposed to it but has never
offered military assistance to Armenia (but sent humanitarian assistance to Nakhichevan in the 1990s, claiming it
was under "blockade", but not to Karabakh)

In any case I thought the EU was a long way ahead of Russia and Iran when it came to respecting democratic elections

The reason all those nations didn't recognise the elections, including Russian and Iran, is because they don't recognise Karabakh and if they did recognise them that would in turn be recognising Karabakh's government which could be interpreted as very easily as recognising its independence. Which no country is going to do, unless status quo changes somehow.

France out of all the EU nations is probably the most pro-Armenian, given our histories which date back to Cilicia, but also to the fact that they have been very forefront in recognising the Armenian Genocide and other Armenian issues.

You can't expect any country including Russia or Iran to be pro-Armenian in all their actions, in the end of the day there is more to be gained from having relations with Azerbaijan than Armenia in terms of economy. Our strategic relations with Russia stem from Russia wanting to have a military stronghold in Caucasus and us wanting a big power to protect us (this doesn't interfere in our relations with EU), Iran has been good with us given their tensions with Azerbaijan of several issues. That being said, our political future lies and will continue to lie with EU. We will continue to have strategic relations with Russia and also good economic relations with Iran.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: EU-Armenia Relations

We are never going to be politically close with EU, because EU and Russia will always be adversaries and trying to battle each other to gain more battle, I mean political battles no wars. We should try to get closer with them on other levels like law, economy, etc. Europe has so many positive aspect that Armenia can learn and grow, but we can not let us be fooled.