Regional geopolitics

[lampron]

Re: Regional geopolitics

If that is the case why does the US Secretary of State goes round the world to raise support as well as consult for its policies.

I assume you regard the US as an unsuccessful state.

.

Absolutely! Totally unsuccessful! Even Armenia is ahead of them.

There is some justice in the world after all.

[lampron]

Re: Regional geopolitics

Objective history requires faithfulness to primary sources as well. Therefore, his objectivity is also suspect. I think he is a die hard leftist, but on order, depending upon which direction the wind blows. As I explained, which is strangely being ignored: He was on the extreme Right on the Armenian nationalism issue right alongside the US State Department until the break up of the USSR. That should be more than enough to deny him any credibility.



My opinion is that it was forced, at least in terms of the timing. The SEIM http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictiona...caucasian+Seim was a better security blanket, but the pan-Turkists were already poised to abandon it and leave Armenian isolated in the region.



Interestingly, so would Armen Ayvazyan who, in his book, also considers Hovanissian a trusted source on the latter's own research material.



Yes, at the time that is what they were vying for, but not because of trust, but because a large chunk of their population were murdered and another large chunk were orphans or destitute. Armenia was a country barely recovering from genocidal tactics. They didn't have any choice on the matter. They didn't necessarily wish to have no statehood, but didn't see any practicality in having one at the time in the condition that we were in.

Yes there was the aftermath of genocide, but the problem of trust goes back a long time.

Today over 60% of people in Armenia praise Putin and Medvedev.

They don't thank the Armenian political parties,the Armenian church or Armenian leaders.

In the Ottoman empire most Armenians did not trust Armenian revolutionaries, Armenian organizations or fellow Armenians in general.

[Eddo211]

Re: Regional geopolitics

I agree with Lampron, we Armenians are our own worsts enemy and the Turks knew that very well......we would go out of our way to screw one of our own but won't do it to others.

[londontsi]

Re: Regional geopolitics

In the Ottoman empire most Armenians did not trust Armenian revolutionaries, Armenian organizations or fellow Armenians in general.

I agree with Lampron, we Armenians are our own worsts enemy and the Turks knew that very well......we would go out of our way to screw one of our own but won't do it to others.

I think sometimes we do not understand the social atmosphere of the time.
I have in mind the fear from the authorities because of misrule and oppression of the government, the gendarme etc.
The lack of education and the concept of progressive though of peasants and artisans.

A brief history of the time would indicate why the population would have been divided into risk takers and no risk takers.

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/hamidian.html

The hamidian Massacres
The Armenian Massacres in 1894-1896 were the first near-genocidal series of atrocities committed against the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire. They were carried out during the reign of Abdul Hamid (Abdulhamit) II (1876-1909), the last sultan effectively to rule over the Turkish state. The massacres broke out in the summer of 1894 in the remote region of Sasun in southern Armenia, where the government relied on the excuse of Armenian resistance to Kurdish encroachment into the last recesses of the mountains to order the sacking of the alpine hamlets. The incident resulted in strong Armenian protests against the sultan's brutal policies and European interventions to quell further disturbances by persuading the Ottoman government to adopt reforms for the Armenian-populated provinces. The police responded to a demonstration held in Constantinople in September 1895 by Armenian political organizations which sought to pressure the government and the European Powers to implement the promised administrative reforms by letting loose a massacre in the capital city. Thereupon, beginning without provocation in the city of Trebizond on the Black Sea, and in a pattern indicating a premeditated plan, a series of massacres spread south through nearly every major Armenian-inhabited town of the empire. It culminated in the single worst atrocity in those months with the burning of the Armenian cathedral of Urfa (ancient Edessa) within whose walls some 3,000 Armenians had taken refuge during the siege of their neighborhood. To a last desperate attempt by Armenian revolutionaries to draw the attention of the world by seizing in Constantinople the European-owned Ottoman Bank in August 1896, the government responded by unleashing wholesale reprisals during which five to six thousand Armenians were killed in the space of three days within sight of the European embassies.

The massacres marked a new threshold of violence in the Ottoman Empire, especially because they occurred in peacetime with none of the exigencies of war invoked as justification for summary action. Their ferocity reflected the sultan's determination to dissuade the Armenians from entertaining any notions of seeing reforms introduced under Western pressure. They were also designed to strike a severe blow to Armenian efforts to organize politically by undermining their expectations and the sense of self-reliance they hoped to develop in order to cope with the aggravated disorder and misrule in the eastern provinces of the empire. Estimates of the dead run from 100,000 to 300,000. Tens of thousands fled the country. Thousands of others were forcibly converted to Islam. The associated plunder of homes and businesses economically ruined countless families, and the destitute counted in the hundreds of thousands. The conflicting interests of the European states, the steady support of the sultan by Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany, and the reactionary policies of Tsar Alexander III in Russia, all adduced to neutralize the capacity of the Great Powers to hold in check the brutal autocracy of Abdul Hamid. Labeled infidels by their Turkish overlords and Muslim neighbors, the Armenians remained second class citizens expressly denied equal protection of the law. The impunity with which the entire episode of systematic massacres were carried out exposed the serious vulnerability of the Armenian population as the Ottoman Empire went into further decline. It also revealed the absence of resolve among the Western states for any kind of humanitarian intervention sufficient to remedy the problems described at the time as the Armenian Question.

Recalled by the Armenians as the "Great Massacres" and described in the literature of the time as the "Armenian Massacres," the atrocities of the 1890s are now often called the Hamidian Massacres to distinguish them from the greater atrocities associated with the 1915 Armenian Genocide. The Hamidian Massacres verified the capacity of the Turkish state to carry out a systematic policy of murder and plunder against a minority population and to provide immunity to all parties associated with the crimes in the face of international protest. In retrospect, it had set a precedent all of whose elements, short of organized deportation, would be reproduced during the Armenian Genocide.

[Haykakan]

Re: Regional geopolitics

GEORGIA, AZERBAIJAN AGREE TO COOPERATE ON 'BREAKAWAY' TERRITORIES

http://asbarez.com/119545/georgia-azerbaijan-agree-to-cooperate-on-%E2%80%98breakaway%E2%80%99-territories/

Thursday, February 13th, 2014

Georgian President Giorgi Margvelashvili (left) toasts Azeri President
Ilham Aliyev at a state dinner during his visit to Baku. Feb. 12,
2014. (Photo: official publication)

TBILISI (DF Watch)--Azerbaijan's President Ilham Aliyev said Georgia
and Azerbaijan support each other in issues of "territorial integrity"
during a visit by Georgian President Giorgi Margvelashvili to Baku
on Thursday.

The comment was in reference to Karabakh, relating it to Georgia's
issues with segments of the country that have been demanding
independence, such as South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Tbilisi ended diplomatic relations with Moscow after Russia recognized
the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia following a short war
with Georgia in 2008.

The Presidents agreed to support and cooperate with each other on
the issue.

According to RFE/RL, Margvelashvili praised Azerbaijani President
Ilham Aliyev for helping build a "warm and friendly" relationship
with Georgia.

Speaking at a joint press conference, Margvelashvili also pointed
to the "historic" railroad project his country and Azerbaijan are
taking part in, saying the Baku-Tbilisi-Kars railway line would be
a new bridge between Europe and Asia, RFE/RL reported.

The two presidents also discussed other transit projects involving
Caspian Basin energy resources destined for European markets that
cross both Azerbaijani and Georgian territories.

[londontsi]

Re: Regional geopolitics

[Artashes]

Re: Regional geopolitics

Yes, it's USA road game that everyone seems to know about EXCEPT the general USA public.
How about the public in Britain?

[londontsi]

Re: Regional geopolitics

Yes, it's USA road game that everyone seems to know about EXCEPT the general USA public.
How about the public in Britain?

Same here ......., except we are told how wonderful work “we” are doing in the international arena based on human rights ( whenever it suits us ) and
democracy ( whenever it suits us) and most importantly
we are reminded we are so wonderful that even the sun rises through our arse.

.

[Hakob]

Re: Regional geopolitics

At the end, this all is going to come home in the west and create dangerous situations for whole world. Just like the Russian revoultion that Europe sponsored in order to get rid of czar. But this time any type of McCartyism may not help to stop the waive where needed. Next time, any cold war may not end so peacefully.
You see, if overly successfull, in the future China could be in the works. But once unleashed from it's traditional cultural governing restrains this huge population god knows how will all end up.
Western politicians do not want to see(just like the communists in SSSR for communism) that forced democracy in other societies might not end up like desired, but sometings like chineese maoism or Cambodian khmer roughe the communism morphed.
Western politicians do not want to accept that democracy is a cultural development in society. It is sustained by the culture in particular country or nation which evolved to a certain cultural level. It will not work in reverse and create a society if imported. It will morph to most likely degrading factor for that society.

[Haykakan]

Re: Regional geopolitics

TURKEY, AZERBAIJAN HOLD MILITARY DRILL IN KARS

http://asbarez.com/119912/turkey-azerbaijan-hold-military-drill-in-kars/

Monday, February 24th, 2014

A Turkish tank engaged in a training exercise in Kars

KARS (Hurriyet)--Turkey and Azerbaijan concluded a set of military
exercises near the Armenian border on Monday, the Turkish General
Staff announced on its website.

The General Staff announced that the exercises were held between Feb.

18 and 20 on the Akbaba polygon, in the province of Kars, located on
the border with Armenia.

According to a statement issued on Feb. 24, the aim of the exercises
was to strengthen military cooperation between the two countries and
share information and experience.

The military exercises involved 1,714 army personnel from the two
countries, 85 of whom were from the Azerbaijani army.

"The main aim of the exercise was to strengthen interaction between
the armed forces of the two fraternal states," the statement said. It
also added that the exercises were aimed at developing skills in
tough winter conditions, testing the ability of units "in deep snow
and extreme cold" in the Armenian Plateau.

Last year, the Turkish and Azeri armies launched joint military
exercises between July 12 and 28 in Baku and in Nakhijevan.