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Military Forces of the Republic of Armenia

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  • Re: Military Forces of the Republic of Armenia

    We Armenians are cursed.....Vrej I know of stories of Armenians ending up killing each other serving opposite countries in war, I thought that was in ancient times until my eyes were opened as a kid. The one for me that hits the nerve is when an Iraqi Armenian cries for his Mom after getting shot by an Iranian Armenian.
    Also our sacrifices and contributions in WWII are immense for the size of our population at the time, some like 50 percent I think.

    We owe our gratitude and deep respect for all our Fedayees.
    B0zkurt Hunter

    Comment


    • Re: Military Forces of the Republic of Armenia

      From Wiki...half of us didn't return.
      Also many Armenians contributed to the war efforts in other ways than fighting.....I have heard half a capita but not sure.

      WWII
      Armenia

      Armenia was spared the devastation and destruction that wrought most of the western Soviet Union during the Great Patriotic War of World War II. The Nazis never reached the South Caucasus. An estimated 300–500,000 Armenians served in the war, almost half of whom did not return.[4]
      One hundred and nineteen Armenians were awarded with the rank of Hero of the Soviet Union.[5] Armenians living in the areas occupied regions of the Soviet Union formed partisan groups to combat the Germans.[6] Over sixty Armenians were promoted to the rank of general, and with an additional four eventually achieving the rank of Marshal of the Soviet Union: Hovhannes Bagramyan (the first non-Slavic commander to hold the position of front commander when he was assigned to be the commander of the First Baltic Front in 1943), Admiral Ivan Isakov, Hamazasp Babadzhanian, and Sergei Khudyakov.[6] Armenian SSR provided weapons and rebuilt broken airplanes. Workers donated to the Defense Fund 216,000,000 rubles. Armenian SSR, as a gift, sent to the front 45 wagons of provisions. The 89th Tamanyan Division, composed of ethnic Armenians, distinguished itself during the war. It fought in the Battle of Berlin and entered Berlin. Like the Georgians, Azerbaijanis and other peoples of the Caucasus who were upset with Soviet rule, some Armenians joined the side of Germany and formed the Armenian Legion.
      B0zkurt Hunter

      Comment


      • Re: Military Forces of the Republic of Armenia

        Sad reality is, we tended to serve blindly under other's flag, rather than ours.
        That servility comes from our tragic fate, but also from the catastrophic influence of the armenian church...
        The most tragic of the episodes you describe, for me, is Sarikhamish, in Dec14-Jan 15, where Armenian soldiers serving under Ottoman flag, faught against Armenian soldiers under Russia's flag, and sacrificed their lives, to save.... ENVER pacha.

        The numbers given in the link of Wiki are erroneous.
        I'm not a great specialist, but it is admitted, that Armenian participation under CCCP flag, was approx 650.000, from which, 300-350.000 never returned home.
        The fog comes from the fact, that in 1939, Huge proportions of Armenians lived outside the borders of the SRA. As a matter of fact, soviet statistics give the territorial/republican origin, and not ethnic.
        Thus all Nakhitchevan, Artsakh, Kartmank Armenians are registered as coming from Azerbaijan, not mentioning those from Baku, Shamakh, Shaki, Gudgashen, Vartashen...
        Same for Javakhtzis, Treghktzis, and Hamshentsis of Abkhazia, registered as coming from Georgia, without mentioning Tiflis.
        I have just the NKO (Nagorni Karabagh Oblast, without Shahumian, etc...): 44 000 to the front, more than 22000 never returned.
        In comparison, Azerbaijanis and partly Georgians tended to evade conscription fulfilling the plan by Armenian conscripts.
        One of main famous example being Heidar Aliyev, who falsified his age, to evade conscription (he was older by 2 years, from his original registration. As he was born in Sisian district, Aghuti village, in a Kurdish family, his birth certificate's original, is in archives of Armenia)

        Comment


        • Re: Military Forces of the Republic of Armenia

          Originally posted by Vrej1915 View Post
          http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25589709

          MIA of WWII: sad reality
          We too, have tens of thousands registered as missing, among our more than 350 000 losses.....

          What the article does not say is that Putin wants their activities stopped because their findings puts Russia's authoritarian past (and, by implication, Putin's authoritarian present) in a bad light. He has proposed a law making it illegal for them to continue their work unless they get permission from army commanders and are supervised by members of the armed forces. The same armed forces that have shown no inclination at all to seach for their dead for the last 70 years.
          Plenipotentiary meow!

          Comment


          • Re: Military Forces of the Republic of Armenia

            Originally posted by Vrej1915 View Post
            One of main famous example being Heidar Aliyev, who falsified his age, to evade conscription (he was older by 2 years, from his original registration. As he was born in Sisian district, Aghuti village, in a Kurdish family, his birth certificate's original, is in archives of Armenia)
            Why nothing about this on the demigod's hagiography on Wikipedia (except for a brief mention made in 2004 on its talk page?).
            Plenipotentiary meow!

            Comment


            • Re: Military Forces of the Republic of Armenia

              This history of harshness towards their own army has been around since Peter the great. Part of it was to keep strong controll and make sure that army did not involve against rulers, like streltsy were before and during early Peter's rain. And as after him most of conscripts were sons of serfs, did not present value as individuals. In soviet times, after cyvil war and during stalin's rain this bad treatment got even worse. Despite this, russian soldiers have been known for very high level of patriotism and self sacrifice at time of need.
              In late 70's or 80's the level of lawlessnes and burocracy was very high also.
              Some of those bad habits towards conscripts have filtered tru in our and other republic's armies early on, as majority of officer core was ex soviet personnel. But thanks god that this is changing. New generation is replacing the old guard, where for Armenians, especially being a small nation, value for soldiers is going higher every year and old habits are fading away.
              Last edited by Hakob; 01-15-2014, 05:24 PM.

              Comment


              • Re: Military Forces of the Republic of Armenia

                15.01.2014
                Ադրբեջանը բացահայտել է Ղարաբաղյան պատերազմում զոհված զինծառայողների թիվը
                Գեւորգ Ստամբոլցյան

                Ըստ Բաքվի հրապարակած պաշտոնական տվյալների՝ 1991-94 թվականներին զոհվել է ադրբեջանական բանակի 11 հազար 557 զինծառայող:
                Հրադադարի կնքումից մոտ 20 տարի անց Ադրբեջանի իշխանությունները հրապարակում են Ղարաբաղյան պատերազմում զոհված զինծառայողների պաշտոնական թվաքանակն ու անվանական ցուցակը: Ադրբեջանի զորակոչային-մոբիլիզացիոն պետական ծառայության պաշտոնական կայքում շաբաթասկզբին հրապարակված տվյալների համաձայն՝ 1991-94 թվականներին հակամարտության գոտու ղարաբաղյան հատվածում, Հայաստանի և Ադրբեջանի պետական սահմանագծին` ներառյալ հայ - նախիջևանյան սահմանը, զոհվել է ադրբեջանական բանակի 11 հազար 557 զինծառայող:

                Ռուսական լրատվամիջոցները, ի դեպ, անդրադառնալով Բաքվի կողմից զոհերի քանակի պաշտոնական հրապարակմանը, հիշեցնում են, որ 90-ականներին` դեռ մինչև հրադադարի կնքումը, ադրբեջանցի պետական գործիչները միանգամայն այլ թվեր էին հրապարակում: «1993-ի հոկտեմբերին Իրանի նախագահ Հաշեմի Ռաֆսանջանիի հետ հանդիպման ընթացքում այն ժամանակ Ադրբեջանի ղեկավարի պաշտոնը զբաղեցնող Հեյդար Ալիևը խոսում էր 11 հազար զոհերի մասին: Դրանից մեկ շաբաթ անց ադրբեջանական հեռուստատեսության եթերում նույն Ալիևը խոսեց արդեն 16 հազար զոհերի մասին», - գրում է Lenta.ru-ն:

                Տարիներ անց արդեն Իլհամ Ալիևը մեկ այլ թիվ էր մատնանշում` խոսելով 12-15 հազար զոհված ադրբեջանցիների մասին: Այժմ ահա պաշտոնական Բաքուն կարծես որոշել է կանգ առնել հենց 11 հազար թվի վրա:

                Սա մի թվային ցուցանիշ է, որ նախկինում հանդիպում էր առավելապես ադրբեջանցի անկախ հետազոտողների աշխատություններում: Հայտնի բաքվեցի քաղաքագետ և պատմաբան Արիֆ Յունուսովը, օրինակ, դեռ տարիներ առաջ հրապարակած հոդվածում նշում էր 11 հազար զոհերի, ինչպես նաև 30 հազար վիրավորների մասին:

                Ի դեպ, ուսումնասիրելով Ադրբեջանի զորակոչային-մոբիլիզացիոն ծառայության հրապարակած ցանկը՝ կարելի է նկատել այն անհամաչափությունը, որով բաշխած են պատերազմում զոհված ադրբեջանցի զինծառայողներն ըստ շրջանների:

                Այսպես, պատերազմի սկզբնական շրջանի գլխավոր թատերաբեմերից մեկը հանդիսացած Շուշին տվել է ընդամենը 29 զոհված զինվորական, Խոջալուն՝ ավելի քիչ` ընդամենը 23: Փոխարենը, այսօր հայկական ուժերի հսկողության տակ գտնվող շրջաններից զորակոչված և պատերազմում զոհված զինծառայողների ցանկերից յուրաքանչյուրը ադրբեջանական գերատեսչության կայքում մի քանի էջ է զբաղեցնում: Օրինակ, տարածքով և բնակչութամբ ոչ այնքան մեծ Ջաբրաիլի շրջանը, պաշտոնական տվյալների համաձայն, պատերազմում 110 զոհ է տվել, հարևան Ֆիզուլին` շուրջ 300: Միանձնյա առաջատարը, սակայն, 1993 թվականի հուլիսին հայկական ուժերի հսկողության տակ անցած Աղդամն է` 577 զոհված ադրբեջանցի զինվորական: Հրապարակված տվյալներից դատելով` Աղդամից հյուսիս գտնվող Թարթառի շրջանը (նախկին Միր-Բաշիր) ևս լուրջ զոհեր է տվել պատերազմի ընթացքում` ավելի քան 200․ սա ևս պատահական չէ, քանի որ պատերազմի վերջին ամիսներին` 1994 թվականի գարնանը, Մարտակերտի և Թարթառի շրջանների սահմանագիծը ռազմական ամենաթեժ գործողությունների թատերաբեմն էր:

                Ադրբեջանական պաշտոնական վիճակագրության համաձայն՝ երկրի զինված ուժերը բավական լուրջ զոհեր են տվել նաև անմիջականորեն Հայաստանի Հանրապետությանը սահմանակից շրջաններում: Այսպես, Տավուշի մարզին սահմանակից Ադրբեջանի երեք շրջանները` Թովուզը, Աղստաֆան և Ղազախը միասին 1991-94 թվականներին շուրջ 600 զոհ են տվել: Զորակոչա-մոբիլիզացիոն ծառայության տվյալների համաձայն՝ երկրի մայրաքաղաք Բաքվին բաժին է հասնում զոհված զինծառայողների ընդհանուր թվաքանակի մոտ 10 տոկոսը` շուրջ 1300 մարդ:

                Հայկական կողմը Ղարաբաղյան պատերազմում կրած ռազմական կորուստների մասին որոշակի տեղեկատվություն նախկինում արդեն իսկ հրապարակել էր: Դրա համաձայն՝ Հայաստանի Զինված ուժերը, Լեռնային Ղարաբաղի Պաշտպանության բանակն ու ինքնապաշտպանական ջոկատները պատերազմի ընթացքում շուրջ 6 հազար 500 զոհ են տվել:
                «Ազատ Եվրոպա/Ազատություն» ռադիոկայան © 2014

                Ըստ Բաքվի հրապարակած պաշտոնական տվյալների՝ 1991-94 թվականներին զոհվել է ադրբեջանական բանակի 11 հազար 557 զինծառայող:

                Comment


                • Re: Military Forces of the Republic of Armenia

                  Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
                  Why nothing about this on the demigod's hagiography on Wikipedia (except for a brief mention made in 2004 on its talk page?).
                  Aliyev's family origin is an open secret for azarbaijani elite, at least.
                  Same goes about sizable proportion of Nakhitchevan's nowday's 'azeri' inhabitants.
                  They are originally from Iranian Kurdistan/Gharatagh, having replaced deported Armenians during Shah Abbas deportation , or the decades preceding Russian expansion (just as the Kurds of what is used to call "Red Kurdistan", corresponding to Kashatagh district of NKR, and Karvadjar).
                  This is the reason for now days outburst of anti-kurdish hysteria in panturkist azari press, from time to time, about expansion of Kurds to Northern Artzakh (Getapek, Gandzak..).
                  This is also the reason why, during his career in the CCCP's KGB, the Kurdish dossier was given to Heidar Aliyev, who was in charge, among others, in the creation of the PKK. This element too is an open secret.

                  Regarding his age factor, it is less known, probably because evading draft is seen as a 'wise guy' characteristic, rather than as a dishonor in Azerbaijani society.

                  -----

                  While Abulfaz Aliyev (renamed Elchibey), was in power, Ilham Aliyev was self exiled as president of Nakhitchevan Autonomous Republic.
                  In that period, he had to have very polite, some may say warm relations with Armenia's LTP and his aides.
                  Among others, Ashod Manutcharian, who was National Security Advisor, or similar posts, according periods..., was the main interlocutor of Heydar.
                  They used to make jokes about their common birthplace, since Manucharyan is also from Sisian.
                  The soviet 'Governemental' lines were still in use ( a parallel, secure net, covering the decision making centers, and executive offices).
                  Back then, the talk was that Manucharyan sent or the original or a copy of the Birth certificate, he asked specially from the archives, to Haydar...
                  Last edited by Vrej1915; 01-15-2014, 11:36 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Military Forces of the Republic of Armenia

                    Many of the "Azerbaijanis" from Armenia, Nakhchivan, and Karabagh are actually Kurdish, aren't they? I'm guessing they were "ascribed" Azerbaijani nationality by the Soviet government due to their faith and culture?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Military Forces of the Republic of Armenia

                      Originally posted by TomServo View Post
                      Many of the "Azerbaijanis" from Armenia, Nakhchivan, and Karabagh are actually Kurdish, aren't they? I'm guessing they were "ascribed" Azerbaijani nationality by the Soviet government due to their faith and culture?
                      Not exactly soviet general policy.
                      Rather the policy of Azerbaijan SR.
                      The Kurds in Armenia were most of the time registered as such, as was the case in Georgia.
                      In Armenian muslim Kurds were registered as Kurd, while Yezidis separately.
                      When Azareis where expelled, most Kurds joined them, and yes, were registered as azari once in azarbaijan.

                      At the early stage of the fighting, some kurdish village chiefs, wanted to keep a neutral position north of Perzor specially.
                      Some did help, in a very minor way, to the passage of first arms from Armenia to NKR.
                      But pretty quickly, the azari national front managed to force them to their side.

                      This alliance with the azari turks, and the bad memory of major massacres in 1918-20, of major Armenian villages of Kashatagh (aka-Lachin & Ghubatlu), notably the "Minkent" (more than 800 killed in a night by neighboring kurdish tribes) & Harar massacres (with survivors living just in Sissian district of Zankezur), sealed their fate.
                      Already, 80% of Kurds of Karvajar & Kashatagh were registered as azari before 89 census.
                      Once in or around Baku, they were totally 'integrated'.

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