Politics in Hayastan

[HyeSocialist]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

It is not fair to take tiny countries which are the exception rather than the rule and imply somehow that these are the majority or the norm when the exact opposite is true. Democracy was born in Greece and we have seen how corruption has destroyed that country, we have seen a democratically elected government execute people simply for not following the narrorative, and criticizing the government. We saw a democratically elected government spit on its own people who voted against the bailout and side with foreign powers selling out the countries wealth and heritage. We have seen democracy being used over and over again to justify invasions which brought nothing but disaster to the people. The modern leader of democracy is in a constant state of war while claiming somehow democracy brings peace and prosperity. You argument is very much like o I know a guy who survived pancreas cancer so do not worry about you pancreas cancer nor the fact that 90% of people who have it die from it.

Small country? Armenia is a big country? Small like Canada or Australia?

A democratic government spit on its own people? Like Putin's democracy did when he unilateral invaded the Crimea, causing his people's wealth to disintegrate over night?

Greece failed due to corrupt government officials, many of whom entered politics not when Greece was a democracy but when it was under the authoritative rule of the military junta.

[Haykakan]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

I never claimed Armenia is a big country and yes Canada and Australia are indeed small countries because they are easily bullied into doing whatever USA wants. Russia is not really a democracy and its people are quite used to some pain when it comes to doing what is in Russia's interest. Russia will come out of this much stronger as a matter of fact she already has. Between the Crimea and the Syrian port Russia has extended her power and reach across a much larger expanse then before. Taking Crimea was hardly an "invasion" as a huge majority of that population supported it plus it is a historical and cultural part of Russia to begin with and its inclusion into Ukraine was just as wrong as giving Kharabagh to azeris. Russia and her people will be far richer because of these actions.
The argument regarding Greece is also very weak because it does not address the point I made earlier. Here we had a government that was just elected by the people and promised them it would not take the bailout. The people voted specifically to express their will against the bail out. And as the world watched their democratically elected government went ahead and stabbed its people in the back as clear as day!
To be clear I am not saying Democracy cannot work. There are examples of working democracies one can point to but unfortunately they are rather few compared to how many dysfunctional democracies there are. The point I am making is that Democracies are far from perfect and in many cases they may not be the best form of government. Forcing it on countries or making it "The Cause" is wrong and should never be done. There is a reason why Democracies are the most corrupt and violent forms of government ever contrived but that is another story.

[HyeSocialist]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

I never claimed Armenia is a big country and yes Canada and Australia are indeed small countries because they are easily bullied into doing whatever USA wants. Russia is not really a democracy and its people are quite used to some pain when it comes to doing what is in Russia's interest. Russia will come out of this much stronger as a matter of fact she already has. Between the Crimea and the Syrian port Russia has extended her power and reach across a much larger expanse then before. Taking Crimea was hardly an "invasion" as a huge majority of that population supported it plus it is a historical and cultural part of Russia to begin with and its inclusion into Ukraine was just as wrong as giving Kharabagh to azeris. Russia and her people will be far richer because of these actions.
The argument regarding Greece is also very weak because it does not address the point I made earlier. Here we had a government that was just elected by the people and promised them it would not take the bailout. The people voted specifically to express their will against the bail out. And as the world watched their democratically elected government went ahead and stabbed its people in the back as clear as day!
To be clear I am not saying Democracy cannot work. There are examples of working democracies one can point to but unfortunately they are rather few compared to how many dysfunctional democracies there are. The point I am making is that Democracies are far from perfect and in many cases they may not be the best form of government. Forcing it on countries or making it "The Cause" is wrong and should never be done. There is a reason why Democracies are the most corrupt and violent forms of government ever contrived but that is another story.

The United Kingdom, Germany, and Japan are bullied by the US in doing whatever it wants? Is that why German and Japanese companies are making a killing in the US markets and that Germany is now at the helm of one the world's largest economies, the Eurozone? Are you sure you're anti-Democracy or is that just a flag you're waving to be anti-West?

Democracies are the most corrupt and violent forms of government ever? Which democracies? The Democratic People's Republic of Korea? Most democracies are dysfunctional? Which ones?

Armenia should move towards democracy and away from the nonsense it learned from the Russians.

[Haykakan]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

The United Kingdom, Germany, and Japan are bullied by the US in doing whatever it wants? Is that why German and Japanese companies are making a killing in the US markets and that Germany is now at the helm of one the world's largest economies, the Eurozone? Are you sure you're anti-Democracy or is that just a flag you're waving to be anti-West?

Democracies are the most corrupt and violent forms of government ever? Which democracies? The Democratic People's Republic of Korea? Most democracies are dysfunctional? Which ones?

Armenia should move towards democracy and away from the nonsense it learned from the Russians.

You are either very ignorant or yet another stooge like a few that crawl in this forum already. In case you are ignorant I will inform you. Japan has not been independent since it lost the war. To this day USA will not allow it to have a proper army. That whole society went from a proud nation to Hollywood worshiping idiots in a generation or two because USA forced it upon them.
Germany showed just how powerless it is when it did not want to impose sanctions that would cripple its own economy but was forced to do it by USA. Its politicians did a 180 just like in Greece.
You show your true lack of knowledge and understanding when you bring Korea into the discussion. Because of USA that country has been split and its people divided for generations. It is truly a sad story of a broken country whose fate was sealed by imperial ambitions of USA. To understand the scale and scope of this tragedy you should compare Korea to Vietnam. Unlike Korea, Vietnam succeeded in maintaining its sovereignty and as a result remains unified and prosperous and at peace.
It is normal to have misconceptions about the world around you for you are surrounded by lies and deceit. The truth is far different then the narrative.

[Hakob]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

Democracy is preferable of course. But it cannot be imposed. It is a cultural phenomenon.
Just like corruption is a cultural phenomenon too.
But the talk is about what system or level is more suitable.
Russian democracy will never be like French. People are different.
For us, a president is one target that can easily be controlled. Or be a horrible authoritarian.
Parliamentary system is one where opposition has a chance.
But if people cannot keep straight demand for their rights and elections are bought then we are screwed again.
We can be worce than Greece.
That is why some opposition do not want it.

[HyeSocialist]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

You are either very ignorant or yet another stooge like a few that crawl in this forum already. In case you are ignorant I will inform you. Japan has not been independent since it lost the war. To this day USA will not allow it to have a proper army. That whole society went from a proud nation to Hollywood worshiping idiots in a generation or two because USA forced it upon them.
Germany showed just how powerless it is when it did not want to impose sanctions that would cripple its own economy but was forced to do it by USA. Its politicians did a 180 just like in Greece.
You show your true lack of knowledge and understanding when you bring Korea into the discussion. Because of USA that country has been split and its people divided for generations. It is truly a sad story of a broken country whose fate was sealed by imperial ambitions of USA. To understand the scale and scope of this tragedy you should compare Korea to Vietnam. Unlike Korea, Vietnam succeeded in maintaining its sovereignty and as a result remains unified and prosperous and at peace.
It is normal to have misconceptions about the world around you for you are surrounded by lies and deceit. The truth is far different then the narrative.

If you are anti-USA then you should just come out and say it. You shouldn't use your feelings about the USA to derail Democracy in Armenia. No one is flocking to authoritarian nations, they are flocking to nations that empower their people and give them a voice in government. Armenia can be like that.

Democracy is preferable of course. But it cannot be imposed. It is a cultural phenomenon.
Just like corruption is a cultural phenomenon too.
But the talk is about what system or level is more suitable.
Russian democracy will never be like French. People are different.
For us, a president is one target that can easily be controlled. Or be a horrible authoritarian.
Parliamentary system is one where opposition has a chance.
But if people cannot keep straight demand for their rights and elections are bought then we are screwed again.
We can be worce than Greece.
That is why some opposition do not want it.

I agree with you on this.

[Haykakan]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

If you are anti-USA then you should just come out and say it. You shouldn't use your feelings about the USA to derail Democracy in Armenia. No one is flocking to authoritarian nations, they are flocking to nations that empower their people and give them a voice in government. Armenia can be like that.



I agree with you on this.

I have neither the power nor the will to derail Democracy in Armenia. If you think USA is not authoritarian then you again do not understand the world you live in. I am not antiUSA as a matter of fact I am educating the people of USA so they can understand their own country and their places in it. There are three main reasons why people are not flocking to Armenia. One reason is threat of war on both eastern and western borders. Second reason is stagnant economy due to closed borders. Corruption is a distant third. Non of these issues have anything to do with "authoritarianism" as democracies are far more corrupt and warlike. People do not go to other countries to have a voice in that country's government, they go there for economic opportunities.

[Shant03]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

Haykakan is a bit extreme, but I have come to learn our country's government is a baby compared to the US. We aren't prepared for democracy the way you have it here, however I do feel we have adopted many of the essentials. That being said, the US's system still isn't perfect, there is large scale corruption and unlike Armenia, the US government is controlled by corporation, where as Armenia's is influenced by Russia.

[HyeSocialist]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

Haykakan is a bit extreme, but I have come to learn our country's government is a baby compared to the US. We aren't prepared for democracy the way you have it here, however I do feel we have adopted many of the essentials. That being said, the US's system still isn't perfect, there is large scale corruption and unlike Armenia, the US government is controlled by corporation, where as Armenia's is influenced by Russia.

A lot of how Armenia runs is like a mini-Russia. Becomes political power is consolidated into one party, the rule of law only applies when that party sees fit. This consolidation of power also leads to the consolidation of the economy into the hands of the oligarchy and formation of monopolies.

The USA isn't a role model by far. But in democracies, you do have to have a high level of rule of law. Democracies break up monopolies on businesses, on political power, and social rights. You give more people and businesses the chance to play in society, empower them. Authoritarian governments stamp out the little guys in favor of the big guys. This is why we shouldn't slow down our progress to a more democratic and equal state for our motherland. It could very well be somewhere we migrate to or do considerable business with.

[Haykakan]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

"The USA isn't a role model by far. But in democracies, you do have to have a high level of rule of law. Democracies break up monopolies on businesses, on political power, and social rights. You give more people and businesses the chance to play in society, empower them. Authoritarian governments stamp out the little guys in favor of the big guys. This is why we shouldn't slow down our progress to a more democratic and equal state for our motherland. It could very well be somewhere we migrate to or do considerable business with."

You keep repeating the typical brainwashed ideologies regularly fed to the public. Is it not in these wonderful democracies where inequality has reached ludicrous levels that will make the worst dictator look like a socialist? Is it not these democracies that are responsible for plunging the world economy into the abyss as a few multibillionaires profit from it? Yes there sure is a rule of law in these democracies alright and these laws protect the super wealthy as they usurp all of the income and start wars to plunder other countries as well. I find it very fascinating that someone with the term socialist in his/her username is so unaware of these issues and is actually using them as a model to aspire to. You sir/mam are the reason why I have chosen to educate people for many years now despite the laughable salary involved with this profession. You may find it hard to believe but today Armenia has much higher equality and far less corruption then the USA.