The Struggle for Caucasia

[xBaron Dants]

I hope that doesn't mean you'll stop coming around these bards since talking to you if one of the reasons I stick around. As an accomplished writer myself, I will always envy your ability to make on the spot arguements that shoot down the other person's (whether they acknowledge it or not).

Actually at this point I could care less about this guy, let us talk about our home. You said you went to Karabagh, how is it? I'm almost more anxious to visit there than Armenia proper when I go next summer.

Well, I do not consider myself a writer, let alone an accompished one, but thank you.

As for Artsakh....akh...where to begin?
We went to Artsakh for only two nights. The whole experience, from the moment you drive by the sign that says "Azad Artsakhe Voghchunum e Tsez", is out of this world. The drive there, while pretty long, offers breathtaking scenaries and interesting conversations with whoever your minibus driver may be. We actually got our passports stamped with an Artsakh visa, which was quite a thrill also. We headed straight for Shushi, which was pretty depressing, I must admit. Seeing such a beautiful city reduced to rubble was tough....and motivating at the same time. We spent the night at Hotel Shushi (great accomodations, even better food) and headed to the hospital the next morning, where LCO volunteers from LA and France were working with locals, renovating the building. So we got to know them, and decided to go for a huge picnic together. After buying our provisions, we headed down to a beatiful spot next to waterfalls, and set up our table. Actually, we didn't have a table, so we made a tablecloth out of the plastic bags we had brought along. We then noticed that we had forgot both salt and cups. One of the locals said that he was sure that there would be some salt lying around. Indeed, he found a bag of salt placed behind a tree. It seems people leave their extra provisions on location, so the next picnickers can use them. As for the cups, we had to be a little more original. We used cut out bottles, and carved out peppers and cucumbers to make our toasts. The oghi was flowing, and in no time, we were singing and toasting and not shutting up. We were supposed to return to Yerevan on that very day, but one of the locals (a war hero, actually) told us to spend the night at their house in a village called Karindag. When we arrived there, the fedayis were telling us stories about how they defended the village. It was really special because you could actually SEE the places and mountains that they were talking about. We then had a big conversation around the "entrik" table, and went to sleep. The next day, we left the house (everybody being very emotional.....even the fedayis were crying) and headed for Stepanakert. For a city that was in war 10 years ago, Stepanakert blew me away. It was sooooo cleaaaaan and new. Nicer than Yerevan, some might say. Seeing the Parliament of Artsakh was definitely quite an experience, and we then drove to the notorious statue of Mamik and Dadik, which was suprisingly small, but nobody really cared. We bought some honey (ok, lots of honey) from an old lady in Stepanakert, and headed back to Yerevan.

Definitely one of the greatest experiences of my life.

[HyeJinx1984]

Wow, I can't wait to go... for some reason the idea of Waterfalls was one that never occured to me. I always thought of Armenia as a place very closely related to the Earth element, not really water since (to my knowledge) our only water source is Sevan (and even that is slipping away from us a little bit every year...) but in any case, when I get there and I see a waterful, I'll think of you, lol. I wouldn't use the word "surprised," but it really is something that you became so close with the locals so quickly. I hope I can give off the same friendly aura as you did. After all, my group is made up of three havs

In any case, the moe I hear, the more I wanna go.

[bell-the-cat]

100% fiction? I think you're confusing this film with a Turkish schoolbook...

...or maybe an Armenian one.

If you believe it is not fiction then try to cite me a single accurate fact / scene that is in the film.

[xBaron Dants]

Sevan's water level has been increasing lately, actually.

They built a canal sorta thing that brings water directly from rivers to Sevan. The government has also implemented semi-sucessful quotas on irrigation. Armenia also had a lot of precipitation these past 2 years, which helped the cause.

Other than Sevan, you obviously have little streams and rivers running around everywhere.

[HyeJinx1984]

I heard about that pipe thing, but I also heard that it didn't work. but I'll take your word over my step-mom's. In anycase... I can't wait til next summer!!!

[TJ]

Sounds like a really nice experience. I actually really want to go to Artsakh myself also. As for Sevan, it is indeed rising, something that i cant blame the government for, at least they payed attention to that, thank god it didnt turn into the Aral sea situation.

As for the cat, you are an idiot, how about you go to an educated country, this means not turkey, and look at their textbooks, see what matches up with theirs better, our Armenian textbooks or your turkish propoganda being hammered into those kids heads. but you cant really be blamed, you are simply a product of that same system and now you are just propogating it and it is a cycle. Try to break out of that and educate yourself, read some 3rd party documents before you start running your obnoxious mouth.
Ill cite you a scene you idiot, the first thing that came to my mind, the brides being torched to death. do you remember that your heartless animal?

[SULTAN]

Bullxxxx

I don't buy it.

Sultan let me ask you somthing...

How would you feel if you were in place? Take a look at the subject from my point of view. You claim that "bygones are bygones", well, if indeed "bygones are bygones" why the stance on Artsahk? Why not condemn the actions of Azeri generals who directly state that they will invade Armenia in the near future?

I totally understand why you deny the genocide. Hell, if I was in your place I wouldn't want future historians associating a genocide with my culture, but after 100 years it is time to put this behind us. It is time to put it "behind us" on the basis that, as Armenians and as the "victims" of the crime, you, as Turks and perpetrators of the crime, offer some sort of "bridge" or "trust". Why should I trust you as a Turk when at the moment my country need Turkey, it turned its back on it?

Do you guys notice that Turks in general want to put their "past" behind them on their terms? I mean really, if you weren't trying to get into the EU, would you really give a dam about Armenians? About Kurds? About the genocide? About Artsahk? About Cyprus?

This is a double standard and truly hope you Armenians do not buy into it. Furthermore, I am not a Jew and in no way do I think paying me off will make up for what you did. Basically you DISPLACED a generation of Armenians and because of you we are heading towards extinction. Your nation was built upon my ancestors. There is no way around this, either you accept it and move on or you continually make yourselves look like a ass. I, as a Armenian, don't want anything from you. I am not going to "beg" my historicaly rival to give me land nor am I going to whine about it like you and your Azeri buddies.

A LOT of nations have done bad things and in general commited attrocities. The Japanese butched 200,000 thousand Chinese. The English subjigated the Irish and Scotts, while their ancestors the Americans butchered natives. The Spanish colonized, butchered, and destroyed natives. Hell, even the Jews have commited atrocities. However, in all cases except for maybe Israel and Japan, all these nations have admited they were wrong. They have not given compensation, but they admitted they were wrong.

I think you people are not improving yourselves.You are stuck to the history and to the same things.World and politics are changing with time.Turkey is changed unbelievablely in the last 10 years.But you are not aware of that.Our military controlled rather nationalist not democratic system drastically changed.Even we are surprised to the things happening here.A Turkish Armenian can talk on the tv just like you talk here and nothing is happening.All this happened because we want to join EU.And we are adopting their laws and system.İf they take us in,you will have EU as a neighbour and you will not have any border problems and no problem to access to Europe.Turkey will lose partially its independence.But will become a very civilised and wealthy country.Turkey will not be threat to you.But if they reject us.Than Turkey may turn back and become an even more nationalist country again.And will be together with Azeris and the other Turcomen countries.Than you may have a problem with Turkey.But believe me even if we join EU, we will still not accept the genocide.Because we are not believing what we did was a genocide.This is not official government politics.People dont believe it too.About Karabagh we will have to join what EU decides.About today,I am not approving Turkish politics about Karabagh and Azeri conflict.We should have been more neutral.But again if they reject us I am afraid we even can unite with Azeris.So why French Armenians, DİASPORA,and nationalist Armenian government is strongly opposing Turkey to join EU.I think you are doing a historical mistake.I advise you people to think wider.Future looks very bright for all of us.You will be surprised to see how good relationship will start between Armenia and Turkey in the very near future.But may be most of the Diaspora will be very unhappy of this.

[guaco]

...or maybe an Armenian one.

If you believe it is not fiction then try to cite me a single accurate fact / scene that is in the film.

My best scene is the one that Turkish pasha's (Cevdet bey I think?) soldier took the Armenian child and take another room and screams started. Maybe he was torturing the child or maybe drinking his blood,
Second best part is when the half Turkish guy (Ali?) act like a stupid because he is a Turk.
Third one is how the son of the ASALA terrorist is proud of his father's murder.

As I read from a paper (Herald Tribune?) Atom Egoyan was ashamed of his Armenian identity when he was at college. And then he realised his identity and become a racist.
I can not understand why diaspora Armenians first feel an inferiority complex about their identities and then become a racist Armenian.

[guaco]

I think you people are not improving yourselves.You are stuck to the history and to the same things.World and politics are changing with time.Turkey is changed unbelievablely in the last 10 years.But you are not aware of that.Our military controlled rather nationalist not democratic system drastically changed.Even we are surprised to the things happening here.A Turkish Armenian can talk on the tv just like you talk here and nothing is happening.All this happened because we want to join EU.And we are adopting their laws and system.İf they take us in,you will have EU as a neighbour and you will not have any border problems and no problem to access to Europe.Turkey will lose partially its independence.But will become a very civilised and wealthy country.Turkey will not be threat to you.But if they reject us.Than Turkey may turn back and become an even more nationalist country again.And will be together with Azeris and the other Turcomen countries.Than you may have a problem with Turkey.But believe me even if we join EU, we will still not accept the genocide.Because we are not believing what we did was a genocide.This is not official government politics.People dont believe it too.About Karabagh we will have to join what EU decides.About today,I am not approving Turkish politics about Karabagh and Azeri conflict.We should have been more neutral.But again if they reject us I am afraid we even can unite with Azeris.So why French Armenians, DİASPORA,and nationalist Armenian government is strongly opposing Turkey to join EU.I think you are doing a historical mistake.I advise you people to think wider.Future looks very bright for all of us.You will be surprised to see how good relationship will start between Armenia and Turkey in the very near future.But may be most of the Diaspora will be very unhappy of this.

Sultan, I don't understand why do you focus this EU issue that much. EU is not a miracle club as you expected. And also I think that when negotiations start and when Turkey will be forced to adopt its industry and especially agriculture policies to EU norms most people like you who support EU will not be happy like today. A lot of farmers will lose their jobs and will force to become an industry worker, social difference will make big problems and also don't expect that big funds from EU which was given to Greece, Spain,etc.

[CatWoman]

Anushik, I don't blame you not to have a sympathy towards Turks, of course very bad things happened to your nation at 1915. Your people suffered and I can understand if you don't have a sympathy. But my point is something different. I observe such a blind and ignorant hate at your diaspora people that I don't find this behaviour mentally healty. It seems from outside like your people teach new born children to hate from Turks, because it becomes a kind of tradition at your community.
In Turkey and Armenia there may be some prejudices between nations but believe me that there is no such kind of hate at Turkey towards Armenians. And I know that people at Armenia don't hate us like that way. This is about diaspora.

That's really funny, I don't recall my parents, grandparents or any adult ever telling me to hate turks or not like turks or etc. However, my great grandma was a genocide survivor and I remember her telling us all these stories about the genocide, we have it on tape actually. Again, she didn't ask me to hate turks. As I get older, and I realize how serious this issue really is, specially with turkish government's total denial of 1915, I get angry, and I mean REALLY ANGRY... you think our parents are teaching us to hate? Nope, as we get older and learn about our history, we realize how barbaric your people were for killing over one million of our people and to make things worse, the cowards are now denying it, and guess what?? hate comes naturally. I don't plan on teaching my kids to hate turks, but I sure will teach them history and their logic will decide the rest. So don't ever call our hate blind and ignorant, you would have felt the same way if you were Armenian and knew your history!