The Struggle for Caucasia

[Catharsis]

Re: The Struggle for Caucasia

Our struggle in Artsakh is not one of religion, but one of national liberation that all people deserve. Armenia and Armenians are much older than any of the monotheistic religions of today so they can keep their fossilized books of "God" to themselves. Shamil Basayev found out the hard way the level that Armenians are willing to go to fight for our ancestral native land and we are determined as ever. If they would fight in Chechnya for their national liberation I would at least understand the logic, but when they incorporate this messianic global "jihad" especially in the Caucasus that is when the lose because they automatically make millions and millions of non-fundamentalists (including Muslims) their sworn enemies.

[Armanen]

Re: The Struggle for Caucasia

Our struggle in Artsakh is not one of religion, but one of national liberation that all people deserve. Armenia and Armenians are much older than any of the monotheistic religions of today so they can keep their fossilized books of "God" to themselves. Shamil Basayev found out the hard way the level that Armenians are willing to go to fight for our ancestral native land and we are determined as ever. If they would fight in Chechnya for their national liberation I would at least understand the logic, but when they incorporate this messianic global "jihad" especially in the Caucasus that is when the lose because they automatically make millions and millions of non-fundamentalists (including Muslims) their sworn enemies.

Agreed! I hope Russia crushes them like the cochroaches that they are.

BTW: Why are there ukrainian volunteers with these idiots?

[Catharsis]

Re: The Struggle for Caucasia

BTW: Why are there ukrainian volunteers with these idiots?

Ukrainian resentment against the "moskals" or "katsaps" (both are Ukrainian derogatory terms for Russians) is quite great, especially in Western Ukraine. They view Chechnya (and also Georgia amongst others) as sharing similar destiny of fighting "against greater odds" and "resisting Russian imperialism." In Ukraine, Russia is often painted as an "imperialistic power" which had a negative impact on "Ukraine's independence" and has even usurped "real Russian identity" which is that of Kiev and not of Moscow. This is of course quite biased because Ukraine has been given vast segments of land (including as recently as 1954 with transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine) after its union with Russia. There are parts of Ukraine (especially in the east and in the south around the Crimean peninsula) where population identifies more with Russia rather than Ukraine. As 2017 encroaches (when Russian Black Sea fleet will have to abandon Sevastopol naval base) there will be much more confrontation with Ukraine.

I think that report on how history is presented in Ukraine also touched upon how Russia's role in (Ukrainian) history is presented.

[hipeter924]

Re: The Struggle for Caucasia

Well the Chechen rebels are just as bad as al qaeda and in league with them, they hostage take schools to murder children, bomb trains and all sorts of things. So naturally the Chechen rebels are real 'angel' figures. Of course they will be defeated eventually but probably not for 50-100 years the way things in the middle east, Pakistan and India are going.

[Armanen]

Re: The Struggle for Caucasia

Ukrainian resentment against the "moskals" or "katsaps" (both are Ukrainian derogatory terms for Russians) is quite great, especially in Western Ukraine. They view Chechnya (and also Georgia amongst others) as sharing similar destiny of fighting "against greater odds" and "resisting Russian imperialism." In Ukraine, Russia is often painted as an "imperialistic power" which had a negative impact on "Ukraine's independence" and has even usurped "real Russian identity" which is that of Kiev and not of Moscow. This is of course quite biased because Ukraine has been given vast segments of land (including as recently as 1954 with transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine) after its union with Russia. There are parts of Ukraine (especially in the east and in the south around the Crimean peninsula) where population identifies more with Russia rather than Ukraine. As 2017 encroaches (when Russian Black Sea fleet will have to abandon Sevastopol naval base) there will be much more confrontation with Ukraine.

I think that report on how history is presented in Ukraine also touched upon how Russia's role in (Ukrainian) history is presented.

I figured as much. Idiot ukrainian nationalists have always painted Russia in a bad light. It is sad that Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarussians couldn't all live within one state, as their histories are so closely linked together and they share a close common ancestor. The current borders are artifical for the most part. The Western part of ukraine I can see as wanting to be independent as many there are have a different ethnic make-up than those in the east. Also, western ukrainians are mostly catholic, so this is another factor as to why Russia isn't popular with them.

[Catharsis]

Re: The Struggle for Caucasia

I figured as much. Idiot ukrainian nationalists have always painted Russia in a bad light. It is sad that Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarussians couldn't all live within one state, as their histories are so closely linked together and they share a close common ancestor. The current borders are artifical for the most part. The Western part of ukraine I can see as wanting to be independent as many there are have a different ethnic make-up than those in the east. Also, western ukrainians are mostly catholic, so this is another factor as to why Russia isn't popular with them.

Yes, Ukraine went as far as to supply Georgia with arms during the Russo-Georgian '5 Day War' of August 2008. A number of volunteers fought on the Georgian side as well (as they did during the previous wars in the 1990s against the Abkhaz and South Ossetians). Most of the resentment is in Western Ukraine, but not only. The current president Yushchenchko (came to power in 2004 after the "Orange Revolution") is also very much in the anti-Russia camp - being the Godfather of (the 2003 "Rose Revolutionary") Saakashvili's son.

Ukrainian propaganda on "break up of Russia." Soros got his moneys worth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb7vFyga6Wk

[bell-the-cat]

Re: The Struggle for Caucasia

I figured as much. Idiot ukrainian nationalists have always painted Russia in a bad light.

Pogroms, genocide, and Kremlin-created famines don't help.

What you have written is the same as writing "idiot Armenian nationalists have always painted Turkey in a bad light".

[Armanen]

Re: The Struggle for Caucasia

Pogroms, genocide, and Kremlin-created famines don't help.

What you have written is the same as writing "idiot Armenian nationalists have always painted Turkey in a bad light".

They should blame the bolsheviks, especially the earlier ones who were not even ethnic Russians. Also, whereas Russians and Ukrainians share a common ancestor, language, and culture, Armenia and turkey do not.

And Russia never had a policy of Genocide against Ukrainians, do not throw that term around lightly, especially on an Armenian forum.