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Liberation of Western Armenia

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  • Liberation of Western Armenia

    Liberation of Western Armenia

    The question regarding whether or not we Armenians would be able to 'liberate' our western lands have been raised recently. I would like to address this by first saying that this issue in question is a very complex geopolitical matter, thus it cannot be answered quite that easily.

    No one but God knows when the day will come when we will able to send Armenian army units into Van, that glorious day may or may not happen within our life times. However, we as a nation need to be vigilant and ready if and when that day arrives. If we are not ready to take our lands back - then there is no chance what-so-ever. However, if we are ready and work towards that particular goal - then there is a chance, a good chance. Therefore, its up to us as a people to decide what we want for our future. Sadly, many Armenians today have already given up, and that is the main obstacle we face, not Turks.

    The enemy is us.

    The last thing I want is for us to be asleep at the wheel when the opportunity comes. Most Armenians were sleeping at the wheel or scared into inaction during 1915. Had we been well organized back then we would have been able to carve a huge amount of our historic lands and there would not have been an Armenian Genocide to lament over. Of course, the Bolshevik revolution and the chaos in Europe did not help our cause either, but that's - Hayu [email protected] - for you again. However, that was then this is now, lets look ahead.

    Anyway, getting our lands back is based upon various geopolitical socioeconomic factors. We need to work on these various factors, we need to be patient, and we need to hope for the best. I firmly believe we will liberate our lands, I just don't know when that time will be. That is one of the fundamental reasons why I say "no relations with Turks what-so-ever." Yes, of course our Republic needs to engage in political dialoug and give lip service to the superpowers that be, but our real national interests must burn bright within us. I will now briefly address the arguments regarding the aspects of getting our lands back:

    How will we defend the land?

    Those lands in question can easily be protect and defended by a well armed, well trained modern military force. The land is rugged and alpine, once you aquire it and dig in, you are in total control - look at Artsakh. Also, if you do have a nuclear bomb behind you, you are virtually untouchable - look at North Korea, Pakistan and very soon Iran. Besides, I only envision making a move onto western Armenia when the Turkish nation is unable to defend its-self. What's more, if the time is right, Russia and/or Iran may want to participate. In other words, when the Turk is vulnerable you stomp on its head as fast as you can and as hard as you can and you don't stop until you accomplish your mission. Let's not forget, politics is dirty business, we also need to dirty ourselves once in a while.

    We need to get rid of our Genocide complexes. We need to get rid our our Diaspora mentalities. Unfortunately, we Armenians think small. When one thinks small one accomplishes small. In this respect, I have a lot more hope in Hayastantis than in diasporans. Hayastantsis don't have these Diaspora derived mental hang ups, as we saw in Artsakh. Moreover, they are free thinkers, shrewd, rash and they are cut-throat, all these work well in politics. As a result, the foreign policy formulations of Yerevan today is excellent, they are well balanced, nationalistic and clever. That is also the reason why I respect the ARF: Regardless of your sentiments are towards them, I know them to be shrewd, well organized, well disciplined and aggressive. And today, they are the only ones in the diaspora that preserves our nationalistic pride and cause.

    What about the Kurds?

    The Kurds will have a nation they may want to move to in norther Iraq or the south of Van. Those who decide to remain in our historic lands will simply have to become Armenian citizens, just as they are Turkish citizens now. If they decide to give us a hard time, then they simply have to pack and leave as well, its no big deal. In times of geo-political chaos, these things occur naturally. Israel has been able to displace close to a million Lebanese in two shot weeks. The Artsakh army was able to do the same with Azeris in 1993. The Kurds are quite disorganized and disunited, therefore Armenians need not worry much about them as a military/politcal factor.

    What is so important about our lands?

    The lands we want hold great sentimental value. That is where our genealogy began, it is where human civilization began, its where our martyred ancestors lie in unmarked graves. More importantly, the land belongs to us legally. Moreover, the land has vast economic, strategic and political value. The region is rich in natural resources and agricultural potential. I envision the Republic of Armenia growing in population within the next hundred. Therefore, we will eventually need our lands back. Every Armenian wants to see a prosperous Armenia, right? Well, a prosperous Armenia will need to expand eventually. So, what better land than 'ours' to expand into? What's more, the only way we Armenians can get respect from the international community is by creating a large powerful nation. A nation that would be able to sit on the table, as an equal, with the regional superpowers.

    As long as we remain small, dependent and vulnerable, the international community will spit on us - its quite natural. Whether or not we will be able to get our lands back is based upon the following factors. We are making good progress in many areas, but there is a lot more to accomplish:

    The out-come of the Artsakh issue

    The strength of the Armenian economy

    The strength of the Armenian military

    The strength and ideological conviction of the Armenian Diaspora

    Whether or not Armenia develops and nuclear bomb

    Superpower interests within the region

    Strong Armenian-Iranians relations

    Strong Armenian-Russian relations

    Armenian-Kurdish relations

    Armenian-Arab relations

    Armenian-EU relations

    Turkey's internal problems - social and economic

    Turkey's external problems - political and military

    Unexpected "natural" disasters

    The above are the factors that would potentially dictate whether or not we will be able to regain our lands. Obviously, its not simple, but as I said: If we keep this within our sights then there 'is' a chance, if we don't then there is 'no' chance. Thus, the pivotal factor is played by nobody but us.

    Our people can be our worst obstacle, or our catalyst to a greater future.
    Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:


    Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog:

  • #2
    Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

    how are we going to beat back the US backed turkish army?
    even if we wait their weapons are much better. and they have many more soldiers.
    "An eye for an eye makes the world blind"


    • #3
      Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

      Originally posted by ArmenianKid
      how are we going to beat back the US backed turkish army? even if we wait their weapons are much better. and they have many more soldiers.
      You did not understand the essence of my message. You are thinking in the present. Things change over time. No one believed that the Soviet Union would fall apart. No one believed that Armenians would be able to beat the Azeri enemy that was much larger and much beter eguipped. American Turkish relations are based upon political interests. When politics change so can their relationship. What's more, Turks in reality, have not been able to do much militarily against Kurds, who are just a bunch of disorganized disunited gaurillas.

      Also, Turkish military hardware is not modern, its about 20-30 years old. Yes, they have superior numbers, but numbers are relative. Re-read the essey I wrote, I am not calling for a war against Turkey, I simply want us to be ready for the day when Turkey is weak and the political situation is right. There might come a time when Turkey falls into civil war and the regional powers of Iran and Russia might want to take advantage of the situation by allowing and assisting the Armenian army's move westward.

      Don't panic, I don't see this happening within the near future. Just keep western Armenia in your heart and be ready for an opportunity.
      Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:


      Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog:


      • #4
        Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

        Dashnaks Insist On Territorial Claims To Turkey

        Armenia does not recognize Turkey’s territorial integrity and may in the future lay claim to lands that were populated by Armenians before the 1915 genocide, a senior member of the governing Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutyun) claimed on Friday.

        “The current government of which we are a part and the president whom we have supported and will support will not abandon territorial claims,” Giro Manoyan, a spokesman for the nationalist party’s ruling Bureau, said. “Armenia’s official position is that the issue is not on our foreign policy agenda. That means it can be on the agenda tomorrow.”

        Recognition of Turkey’s current borders has been one of Ankara’s preconditions for normalizing relations with Armenia. Official Yerevan says it recognizes the existing Turkish-Armenian border which was set by the Treaty of Kars signed in 1921 following the country’s takeover by Bolshevik Russia. The government of the then Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic was among the treaty’s signatories

        “Armenia is the successor state of the Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic,” the Armenian Foreign Ministry explains on its website. “All of the agreements which the ASSR signed continue to be in force unless new agreements have been signed to replace them.”

        At the same time the Armenian government has repeatedly dismissed Turkish demands to officially declare that it will never claim any lands in what is now eastern Turkey.

        “No Armenian government can do that because I believe the Armenia people would not allow that government to remain in power,” Manoyan said during a roundtable discussion in Yerevan.

        “The fact that there are no territorial claims today, does not mean we can’t lay such claims tomorrow,” he told RFE/RL separately.

        The possibility of such claims has never been publicly acknowledged by President Robert Kocharian, Defense Minister Serzh Sarkisian and two other parties represented in Armenia’s government. In a famous 2001 interview with CNN-Turk television, Kocharian sought to assure Ankara that its recognition of the 1915-1918 mass killings of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire as genocide would not prompt territorial demands from Yerevan.

        “Genocide recognition by Turkey will not lead to legal consequences for territorial claims,” Kocharian said at the time. “The problem is that those events have taken place in Turkey, and the Republic of Armenia did not exist at that time, and today's Republic of Armenia is not the heir to those lands,” he added.

        David Phillips, a U.S. scholar who chaired the Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation Commission, wrote in a 2005 book that Kocharian’s interview “helped mollify [Turkish] concerns about Armenia’s intentions.”

        But according to Manoyan, the Armenian leader simply stated that “there is no such issue on the agenda of Armenian foreign policy today.” “The president also said genocide recognition would not automatically result in territorial claims,” he said, denying any disagreements on the issue between Kocharian and Dashnaktsutyun.

        Manoyan revealed last summer that the party, which also has chapters in major Armenian communities abroad, plans a major shift in its long-running campaign for international recognition of the Armenian genocide. He said Dashnaktsutyun will strive to force Turkey to pay reparations.

        Kocharian, however, had told CNN-Turk that for him genocide recognition is “more of a moral issue.”

        Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:


        Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog:


        • #5
          Re: Liberation of Western Armenia


          By Haroutiun Khachatrian: 8/09/05

          A controversial report by an Armenian research and consulting group claims that reopening the Armenian-Turkish border would have a much smaller impact on Armenia’s economy than commonly believed.

          The report was presented July 13 by the Armenian-European Political Legal Advice Center (AEPLAC), a prominent think tank sponsored by the European Union. It contended that Armenia would see its economy expand by only $20-23 million annually, or just 0.67 percent of its current Gross Domestic Product, if Turkey decided to lift its 12-year blockade of the Armenian border. Over the next five years, Armenia’s GDP would see an additional 2.7 percent increase over the country’s level in 2004.

          The gain, the report maintained, would be almost exclusively the result of lower cargo transportation costs associated with the reopening of the Kars-Gyumri railroad that connects the two countries. Currently, Armenian goods can only reach trade partners via Georgia, which charges relatively high cargo tariffs. Transportation costs account for some 25-30 percent of Armenia’s trade costs, according to the report.

          The report’s findings caught many Armenian academics and journalists by surprise. A widely cited 2000 World Bank study predicted that Armenia would see a 30-percent increase in GDP if both Turkey and Azerbaijan lifted their economic embargos. Since then, the Armenian economy has experienced impressive growth. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archive]. Many observers and economists believed that lifting the blockade would boost those numbers still higher.

          Turkey closed its border with Armenia in 1993 in an act of solidarity with Azerbaijan. At the time, Armenian and Azerbaijani forces were battling for control of the Nagorno-Karabakh enclave. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archive]. The blockade cause substantial economic hardship in Armenia for much of the 1990s. In early 2004, Turkey reportedly considered re-opening the border, but eventually decided against it. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archive].

          Turkish goods -- worth an estimated $40 million per year, according to the National Statistical Service of Armenia -- manage to enter Armenia via third countries. A general belief exists that if the border were re-opened, Armenia would be able to export a comparable amount of goods and services, namely electricity – to its western neighbor.

          Many economists have challenged the report’s findings. They note that the analysis contained in the report, which was written by a seven-member team, largely concurs with recent statements made by various government officials, who have downplayed the need for an open Turkish-Armenian border. The daily Azg, for instance, commented on July 7 that the report’s argument provided strong support for Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian’s position that Armenia will not make any political concessions to Turkey in return for the lifting of the border blockade. “If the economic impact of lifting the blockade is negligible, then there is no reason to open the border,” said a recent editorial published by the Russian-language Delovoi Ekspress. “And this is pure politics.”

          Others take issue with the report’s statistical analysis. Economist Eduard Agajanov, who served as minister of statistics under former President Levon Ter-Petrosian (1991-1998), charged that the report underestimated the economic impact of reopening the Turkish-Armenian border in order to provide political support for President Robert Kocharian’s administration. “Its purpose is to preserve the current oligarchic economic system in Armenia, which cannot survive if the borders are opened and competition with Turkish goods becomes tougher,” Agajanov said. If Armenia regains access to markets of the Middle East via Turkey, Agajanov argued, it would stimulate a whole range of industries that were active during the Soviet era, when the Middle East and India were major markets.

          The AEPLAC authors said they took various factors into account, including the 2000 World Bank study and the potential re-entry of Armenian companies into Middle Eastern markets. Ultimately, however, they decided that Armenian producers do not presently have the resources to meet demand in Turkey and the Middle East for goods, such as electricity and cement. At the same time, the report suggested that reopening the Turkish-Armenian border might stimulate economic growth in eastern regions of Turkey, where GDP per capita is even lower than in Armenia.

          Although the authors of the AEPLAC report state that it was commissioned by the Armenian government, Trade and Economic Development Minister Karen Chshmaritian has denied that the government had anything to do with the preparation of the document.

          At a July 27 press conference, Chshmairtian criticized the AEPLAC estimates as too conservative. “They have not taken into account the effect of mutual penetration of capital from the two countries. Turkey obviously hinders its businessmen from investing in Armenia, and when this ban is eliminated, growth may be highly accelerated,” he stated. To prove the point, Chshmaritian told reporters, the government is conducting its own research into the economic impact of Turkey lifting its border blockade. A report is due out later this year, he said.

          Editor’s Note: Haroutiun Khachatrian is a Yerevan-based writer specializing in economic and political affairs.

          Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:


          Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog:


          • #6
            Re: Liberation of Western Armenia


            Noyan Tapan
            Armenians Today
            Feb 07 2006

            of Nagorno Karabakh, including liberated territories near it, are
            unseparable part of the Armenian eternal Fatherland, towards which
            the Armenian people has an exclusive right of supremacy. This is said
            in the Febraury 6 statement of the "Ukht Ararati" (Oath of Ararat)
            union of former political prisoners and freedom-fighters of the
            Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA). Moreover,
            the Artsakh problem hasn't been solved yet, the organization
            sees this solution in completele making Armenian the territory
            of about 43 square kilometers being under the Armenian soldiers'
            supremacy. "We still have many territories of the Fatherland waiting
            for liberation in the direction of what the RA authorities are obliged
            to act," is said in the statement. The organization states that it's
            completely inadmissible for him "appearing of so called international
            peace-keeping forces in the Armenian Fatherland."

            Continuing of the RA borders' blockade and information-psychological
            war, brutal murder of Armenian soldier Gurgen Margarian in Budapest,
            barbarous annihilation of Armenian spiritual heritage in Old Jugha
            and other places planned by the state and numerous other facts,
            according to the document author, leave no doubt that "Turks and
            their kindred Azeris has even not a far wish to recognize even the
            exitence of the Armenian people in its Fathrland." According to the
            statement, "it's necessary not only to make any defeatist step but
            to stop meaningless negotiations with enemies of centuries."
            Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:


            Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog:


            • #7
              Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

              Young Armenians against Normalization of Relations with Turkey And Azerbaijan

              YEREVAN (Armenpress)--A survey conducted by Sociometer polling center revealed that the overwhelming majority of young Armenians are against normalization of relations with Turkey if this requires giving up Armenians' territorial claims to Turkey and without Turkey's acknowledgment of the 1915 genocide.

              According to the Sociometer poll, 90 percent of respondents said they were against the improvement of relations with Turkey in that way.

              The percentage of those who would seek economic and other ties with Turkey before it recognized the Genocide and met other Armenian demands was only 4 percent, while 6 percent were undecided.

              Also 91 percent said they were against establishment of normal relations with Azerbaijan without the final settlement of the Karabagh issue. Only 2.9 percent said they would welcome it. The survey was conducted in order formulate Armenia's national youth policy.
              Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:


              Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog:


              • #8
                Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

                Stepan Stepanyan: Armenia Should Urge Turkey to Return Territories

                /PanARMENIAN.Net/ Armenia should raise the issue of returning of historical Armenian territories by Turkey, head of the department of history of the Armenian issue and Armenian Genocide of the Institute of History at the National Academy of Sciences Stepan Stepanyan. considers. In his words, to date 18 states have recognized the Armenian Genocide and this offers the reason to urge Turkey to return the territories. Stepanyan considers that the Armenian diplomats and Diaspora should play a significant role in the issue.

                “We should not wait until all the states of the world recognize the Armenian Genocide. The diplomatic work should be targeted at the returning of historical Armenian territories. Turkey will never acknowledge the Armenian Genocide. Its barbarian attitude to the issue has not changed so far. On the contrary, when Armenia speaks of the opening of the Armenian-Turkish border or Karabakh conflict settlement Turkey tries to oblige Armenia to abandon the campaign on the Armenian Genocide recognition,” he said, reported Novosti-Armenia.

                Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:


                Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog:


                • #9
                  Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

                  About the Denunciation of the Russian-Turkish Treaty

                  Authors Roger Gonnet, Smbat Karakhanian

                  Smbat Karakhanian is chairman of the Armenian National Club of Moscow, Miabanutiun.

                  Source Gazeta SNG (Russia)
                  Reference “О денонсации русско-турецкого Договора”, by Smbat Karakhanian, Gazeta SNG, April 14, 2005.

                  Summary Right now there is too much talking about both the formation of a civil society in terms of law and its integration in the international community. Out of consideration for international laws and regulations, it is really important to re-establish a historical justice. The geopolitical and strategic matters will not be settled without first solving the issue of the Armenian territories of a prior-to-the-revolution Russia. The March 16, 1921 Treaty between the Soviet Socialist Republic of Russia and the government of Kemalist Turkey is a clear example of the breach of the peoples’ rights. It must be borne in mind that since the summer of 1920, there were two government in Turkey: one in Ankara led by Mustafa Kemal (Atatürk); and another one internationally recognized in those days - the Constantinople government.

                  In the first part of the Treaty, Russia factually recognized the superiority of the Turkish decisions about the international conventions and the principles approved by the UN. In the second part - about the Black Sea and the straits - there are a number of articles not accomplished any more. On page 8, Russia recognized the zone controlled by the Kemalists in March, 1921, as an integral part of the «Turkish territories». Neither then nor now is there a single justification for this in terms of international law.

                  The Nakhitchevan province was part of the first Republic of Armenia since 1918, and of the Armenian part of the Czarist Russia since 1828. Mount Ararat (on which Noah’s Ark would run aground) was part of this province, of which Turkey took possession. Then, from February 9, 1924, Nakhitchevan became an autonomous republic within the Soviet Socialist Republic of Azerbaijan. This treaty conflicts with the Vienna Convention «on the laws of international treaties». The rights of the Russian, Armenian, Kurdish and Greek peoples have not been respected. So, the said treaty must be annulled or revised. It equally opposes the Statement of the Human Rights stipulated by the UN in 1948.

                  Together with the Armenian National Club Miabanutiun, we advocate the creation of a program aimed at settling the issue by stages. The first would consist of a Russian-Turkish agreement including the right for the descendants of the inhabitants of those regions to return, and then the right to re-establish our historical and cultural patrimony, the creation of an economic entity and the restoration of the old Christian churches.

                  Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:


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                  • #10
                    Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

                    One day this military parade will take place in Van.
                    Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:


                    Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: