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The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

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  • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

    SPETSNAZ



    During the Cold War, simply the name itself struck fear into the hearts of many across the world. This vast organization, who along with their KGB and Internal Ministry counterparts once numbered around a hundred thousand highly trained warriors, performed on a regular basis operations that their western counterparts could only dream of in their wildest Hollywood derived fantasies. From Vietnam to Afghanistan, from the Middle East to Europe, from Africa to South America this highly specialized and ruthless force shaped the history of the world for half a century. While western intelligence heavily relied on electronic surveillance and paid informants to carry out their tasks, Russian special forces performed tasks hands-on. I vividly remember the abduction of Russians in Lebanon during the mid-1980s. Four Russians were kidnapped by the Palestinian Fatah forces, known at the time to have been funded by the CIA. One of the abducted Russians was subsequently murdered in captivity. The Soviet union responded. Using their vast network of regional informants and intelligence contacts, KGB led Spetsnaz forces managed to swiftly 'abduct' the abductors. What followed was quite symbolic of the KGB; ruthless, efficient and effective. They cut the abducted Palestinians into pieces and sent their body parts, in boxes, to the hostage takers' families. Soon thereafter, the surviving three Russian captives were released... Needless to say this swift, brutal and effective action made a great impression upon me at the time. It is now also becoming increasingly apparent that Russia's current resurgence as a global superpower is in large part due to surviving KGB/GRU/Spetsnaz elements within Yeltsin's western backed government that succeeded in retaking power in the Russian Federation. The resilient and warlike nature of Russians, their legendary military ingenuity and, most importantly, their control over a vast landmass containing vast amounts of natural resources is what makes the Russian Federation poised to become a global superpower with no rival. Thus, I fully understand where western fear towards Russia comes from. For the longterm security and prosperity of the West's financial/political elite Russia had to be tamed. The West lost their chance, however, when Putin took over control of the Russian government from Yeltsin. The following video presentation (see below) is a western produced documentary about the Russian Spetsnaz that places this organization in proper perspective, albeit a western perspective.

    Armenian

    ************************************************** **********
    Inside The Russian Special Forces - Spetsnaz



    During the 1970s, when the Cold War was at its height, the West became aware of the existence of Soviet Spetsnaz troops, which were grouped into what were known as "diversionary brigades." Today, although the Cold War is long since ended, Spetsnaz units are still part of the Russian order-of-battle, although their missions have changed. Spetsnaz (Spetsialnoye nazranie = troops of special purpose) were raised as the troops of the Glavnoe razvedyvatel'noe upravlenie (GRU) (= main intelligence directorate [of the General Staff]) and in the 1980s numbered some 30,000. These were deployed: one Spetsnaz company per Army; one Spetsnaz regiment in each of the three "theaters of operations"; one Spetsnaz brigade in each of the four Soviet Fleets; and an independent Spetsnaz brigade in most military districts of the USSR. There were also special Spetsnaz intelligence units, one to each Front and Fleet: total 20. A Spetsnaz company was 135 strong, normally operating in 15 independent teams, although they could also combine for specific missions. A Spetsnaz brigade was 1,000-1,300 strong and consisted of a headquarters, three or four parachute battalions, a communications company, and supporting troops. It also included an anti-VIP company, composed of some 70-80 regular troops (ie, not conscripts) whose mission was to seek out, identify and kill enemy political and military leaders. A naval Spetsnaz brigade had a headquarters, two to three battalions of combat swimmers, a parachute battalion, supporting units, and an anti-VIP company. It also had a group of midget submarines designed to deliver combat swimmers to distant targets. The existence of Spetsnaz was a closely guarded secret within the Warsaw Pact and individual troops were not allowed to admit membership, to the extent that army Spetsnaz wore standard airborne uniforms and insignia, while naval Spetsnaz wore naval infantry uniforms and insignia. There is a broad spectrum of such forces in Russia, ranging from the army, where dolphins and beluga whales, especially trained by specialists of the Defense Ministry's Scientific Research Center No. 172, serve as underwater saboteurs, to social structures worthy of the attentions of the Russian special services. (1) But the units which are of the greatest interest are those which enable Russia's rulers to achieve their political goals. There are more than enough such units in Russia today. As the magazine Ogonek observed, if someone assumess that the Russian armed forces consist of only an army, a navy, and an air force, they are mistaken. (2) There are other, less visible, armed forces. There are the internal troops, the border troops, the railroad troops, Communications Ministry troops, armed units of the Federal Security Service (FSB), of the Federal Agency for Government Communications and Information (FAPSI), and Ministry of Emergency Situations troops.


    And almost each of these agencies have their own units or detachments which could be called elite. There is also the General Staff's Main Intelligence Directorate's [GRU] spetsnaz, which the military men do not discuss. The security services' elite detachments--the anti-terrorist "Alfa" and "Vympel" units--are well-known. The Ministry of Internal Affairs' special detachments are also well-known-- they specialize in fighting street disorders, organized crime, and terrorism. There is talk of creating a special border detachment. To make a long story short, there are about as many special detachments as there are agencies. Whether or not a unit is "elite," according to the magazine, is defined, for the most part, by three things: by fulfilling a special function or mission distinct from that of the army as a whole, by its special equipment: material, technical, etc., and by the amount of money spent on the unit. All the rest--a special way of selecting personnel, special training--is secondary. In addition, service in such units is always considered prestigious and thus the spetsnaz has rarely experienced a shortage of people wishing to fill its ranks, either in Soviet or in post-Soviet times. Naval Spetsnaz also continue to serve in the Northern, Baltic, Black Sea, and Pacific fleets. Most of these are subordinate to the Fleet commanders, but some are under the direct control of the Naval Commander-in-Chief in Moscow. Again, their manning levels are not known and it may be that, like other areas in the Russian armed forces, they are seriously under strength. Russian naval special-designation forces, or spetsnaz, have been less visible in the wake of the USSR's dissolution. Recently, however, the Russian navy's commander in chief, Admiral Vladimir Kuroyedov, reaffirmed that naval special-operations units – which have a long, active history in the Soviet armed forces – remain assigned to the Russian Baltic, northern, Pacific and Black Sea fleets. Although the admiral provided few specifics on the size and capabilities of the units, he did indicate that they were elite, that they were equipped with special weapons (including small submarines), and that they were comparable to U.S. Navy SEALS or the Israeli Navy's 13th Flotilla.


    Other Spetsnaz Troops: Alfa was set up by the KGB's Seventh Directorate in 1974 and appears to have been inspired by the British SAS and US 1SFOD-D (Delta) as a c ounter-terrorist and hostage-rescue group. Al'fa is generally credited with being the unit that attacked the Presidential palace in Kabul, Afghanistan, on December 28 1980 and murdered President Hafizullah Amin and his family. Al'fa is now controlled by the FSB (Federal'naia sluzhba bezopasnosti = Federal Security Service) in general terms, equivalent to the USA's FBI. Current strength is estimated to be about 300, with the main group in Moscow and three smaller groups elsewhere in the federation. Today it is difficult to determine in which operations Alpha will have to participate in the near future, but it is already clear that together with carrying out its fundamental mission, it will have to participate in guaranteeing the safety of the coming political maneuvers, linked in particular with the presidential elections. What kind of participation this will be depends not on Alpha's members, but on the country's political leaders, who have now put Alpha back under their own direct control for a reason, subordinating it directly to the Federal Security Service. But to this day, Alpha remains the Russian special services' most effective anti-terrorist unit, and has substantial capabilities to carry out the missions with which it is entrusted. According to the Russian press, Alpha has about 200 universally-trained fighters who have made it through a rigorous selection process, physical, psychological, and special training, who are able to master any kind of weapon and any form of land transportation.

    A Spetsnaz team prepares for a mission at Kabul airport, in Afghanistan, 1988


    To these men are added specialists in narrower professions, including snipers and the best shots with various weapons, specially trained frogmen, alpinists, rock climbers, psychologists, and, in recent times, hostage-negotiation specialists. This unit has no contract system; everyone passes through real military service in the military ranks from lieutenant to colonel. Incidentally, similar units exist in Kazakhstan, Ukraine, and Belarus, where individual Alpha units existed in Soviet times, and Russian special operations troops maintain professional and friendly relations with them. Alfa first won international renown after the storming of Afghan president Hafizullah Amin's palace, in which it participated together with the anti-terrorist unit Vympel. The Vympel group was created in 1979 as the special operations unit of the KGB's First Main Directorate, and its first mission was to carry out special missions, to carry out military actions and sabotage abroad. The Vympel group was manned only by officers who knew two or three foreign languages, and it was said that they knew the maps of about thirty world capitals by heart. After August 1991, Vympel was passed on from one Soviet, and later, Russian, security structure to another, and after October 1993, it was put under the MVD and thrown into the fight against organized crime. After that, 110 of the group's 180 officers applied for discharge so that they wouldn't have to take orders from police bureaucrats. With what was left of Vympel, the MVD leadership tried to create its own anti-terrorist unit, Vega, to fight nuclear terrorism. As a result of the latter's unprofessional efforts to neutralize terrorists in Mineralnye Vody (in the Northern Caucasus) on July 29, 1994, four hostages were killed. At the same time, the KGB's main successor -- the predecessor of the present FSB, left without its own anti-terrorist unit for about a year, began to create the so-called USO, or Special Operations Directorate.

    Chechen terrorist Shamil Basayev killed by Russian special forces in Ekazhevo, Ingushetia.


    After Basayev's fighters' raid on Budennovsk last year, a few of the remnants of Vympel were returned to Russia's security system. And after last year's presidential decree on the formation of a so-called Anti-terrorist Center in the FSB system, this organ began to coordinate or attempted to coordinate the anti-terrorist efforts and capabilities of these disparate groups--USO, Alfa, and Vega. In addition to the security forces' spetsnaz troops mentioned above, there is also the well-known Vityaz, the special operations forces of the MVD's special Dzerzhinsky division. It was formed on the eve of the 1980 Olympic Games in Moscow, when the Soviet authorities feared the possible acts of "terrorists sent by the CIA." In distinction from Alpha and Vympel, this unit was staffed by soldiers who served for a fixed period, who received excellent training in hand-to-hand combat and showed impressive mental toughness.

    [...]

    Source: http://warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=239&linkid=1561

    Last edited by Armenian; 06-02-2008, 09:05 PM.
    Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

    Նժդեհ


    Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

    Comment


    • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

      VIVA LA FRANCE!

      Originally posted by Armenian View Post
      'Putin's presidency were great years' - Chirac: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJwSZuypND0
      It seems like and pro-American Nicolas Sarkozy is trying really hard to be Russia's friend too.

      October 10, 2007,
      The Kremlin, Moscow

      Joint Press Conference with President of France Nicolas Sarkozy on the Results of Russian-French talks


      PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen!

      Our talks with the President of France, Nicolas Sarkozy, have come to an end. This is his first visit to Russia as head of state. And we hope that it will be an important milestone in the development of our bilateral cooperation.

      In a relatively short period of time we have now met twice. We first met “in the margins” of the G8 summit in Germany, and the principal result of that meeting was to confirm the stability and continuity of the Russian-French partnership. Today's full-scale summit was devoted to a thorough, detailed and in-depth discussion of all aspects of bilateral cooperation, and an exchange of views on the current situation in various areas of concerted action to determine the specific outlook for our relations.
      Let me say at once that we are pleased with the outcome of these talks. We extensively discussed key regional and global issues, the critical issues on our bilateral agenda. We noted that there has been significant progress in political, cultural and economic cooperation between Russia and France.

      ....


      PRESIDENT NICOLAS SARKOZY (translated from a Russian translation): Thank you, Mr President, my dear Vladimir!

      We have had in-depth, open and cordial discussions. France wants to become a privileged partner of Russia. It seems to me that our Russia friends are of the same mind. Incidentally, I have invited the next President of Russia to come for a visit on the occasion of the launch at Kourou. That will be in late 2008. And, in addition, I said to Vladimir that I would be happy if he took me up on my invitation to make this his first trip abroad after the end of his term as President of Russia. I think that he has agreed.
      Russia is an essential partner. Russia is a powerful country. Russia has international responsibilities and wants to live up to them. I think that is positive for stability and the fundamental strength of the world. That is why we discussed all the major issues. We have thoroughly discussed the Iranian issue. We listened Mr Putin’s views on the eve of his visit to Tehran. And, in general, I think that our positions are somewhat closer.
      Now with regard to Kosovo: I think it is very important that Europe remains united on the issue, indivisible. And to do so we are counting on our partnership with Russia. We believe that this is a European matter, but we are trying to work out a solution that will not humiliate anyone.


      READ MORE - http://www.kremlin.ru/eng/text/speec...5_147984.shtml



      October 10, 2007

      LEFORTOVO, MOSCOW. With French President Nicholas Sarkozy at the unveiling of a monument to the Normandy–Nieman Regiment.













      October 10, 2007

      LEFORTOVO, MOSCOW. With Second World War veterans and the President of France, Nicolas Sarkozy, at the unveiling of the monument to the Normandy-Neman squadron.

      Новости, стенограммы, фото и видеозаписи, документы, подписанные Президентом России, информация о деятельности Администрации

      Comment


      • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

        Thank you for the video, Armenian.

        It was interesting to watch and I did learn something new.
        I have a question however...

        The second part of the video speaks about the failed coup de taut of 1993 and the actions of KGB Spetsnaz group Alfa which didn't want to storm the White House to avoid massacre. Later Yeltsin visited the KGB headquarters and had a chat with its leaders, and then he made some changes in its structure.
        Here's a quote from the second video:

        Yeltsin ordered the interior unit of the KGB Spetsnaz group Alfa was transferred to his personal control. The proud secret warriors of the Soviet Empire were in a blink of an eye reduced to the body guards. Their monolithic world began to collapse. The foreign intelligence Spetsnaz unit was tranformed in its entirety to the Interior ministry.

        Does it mean that the KGB doesn't have a Spetsnaz groups anymore?

        Comment


        • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

          Originally posted by Armanen View Post
          I also think it would good for there to be a union between Russia and Belarus, I mean the people are almost the same i.e. ethnic Russian and Belarussian, also like you said Belarus is being pushed on by all sides, and their economy is already dependent on Russia. I have not heard about those other nations wanting to join the union, Serbia would be nice, maybe those two central asian nations, but not sure if it would be a good idea for moldova to join as they are more "western" leaning in their foreign policy. As for Armenia joining the union, I would be in support of it if it meant Armenia was still an independent country, at this point I wouldn't favor a soviet sytle system with Armenia being a "republic" but in reality it, along with all the other republics (except Russia) were autonomous regions. I guess what I'm trying to say is that a confederation would be better than a federation.
          .
          I agree with you also I would only want a nation to be autonomous region if they voted and wished so . Or else's be independent country/republic in a confederation. Kazakhstan has expressed interest in forming a separate customs union with Russia and Belarus by 2010. There is talk of Kazakhstan fully joining the Union of Russia and Belarus after some time. http://www.gtk.gov.by/en/news?id=633. Also Kyrgyzstan, as of June 2007, opposition in Kyrgyzstan, which has been locked in political turmoil, has initiated a nationwide referendum to join the union of Russia and Belarus. http://news.trendaz.com/index.shtml?...941962&lang=EN. In 2001 Moldova wanted to join but they seems to quiet down I assume(like you said) to there 'western style leaning now'. Also it would not surprised that many support for Serbia joining.

          Does anyone have any english information on Usman Ferzauli? He is a Chechen commited in here about Kosovo. rebel.http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...38576020080218

          Comment


          • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

            Originally posted by North Pole View Post
            Does it mean that the KGB doesn't have a Spetsnaz groups anymore?
            Good question. This question interests me as well. I am not too sure of the answer, however. I am only exposed to Western publications regarding this topic and information found on the internet. I have read conflicting information regarding the command structure of Russia's current intelligence agencies and their affiliated special forces. It seems as if many of the things Yeltsin changed in the early 90s were reinstated by the late 1990s. Nonetheless, the FSB today is considered to be in many ways more powerful than its predecessor, the KGB. While the KGB served the Communist party, the FSB today more-or-less serves itself; it is in essence running the Russian Federation. Thus, they are to be given credit for saving the Russian nation from certain doom.

            Anyway, I know that during the mid-90 the elite counter-terrorist group called the Vympel was placed under the direct command of the FSB. And of course there is the powerful GRU. The GRU is an independent agency in the Russian Federation. It is considered to be the largest intelligence agency in Russia and unlike the FSB it was never disbanded or reorganized by Yeltsin after the fall of the Soviet Union. GRU's main task seems to be military intelligence and special operations. And there is also the elite Alpha group, another counter-terrorist group affiliated with the FSB. This group seems to be the one that was placed under Yeltsin's control after the failed coup d'etat in 1991. I am not sure of its current command structure. There is very little information on them. However, back in 1999, when the parliamentary assassinations took place in Armenia, an Alpha unit was quickly dispatched to Yerevan to protect the Armenian president.

            This is a very complex topic. The Russian Federation has perhaps the most extensive and most capable intelligence network in the world and much of it remains a mystery. This is a very-very murky world we are talking about. I am interested to learn more about this topic. If you come across pertinent information, please share.

            Here is an interesting documentary.

            VYMPEL


            Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

            Նժդեհ


            Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

              Very Bad news ....
              Good for Russia could be a catastrophe for Armenia.

              Gazprom blocks plans to pump Caspian gas to EU bypassing Russia

              "Moves by the European Commission and the United States on the Caspian have forced Russian natural gas monopoly Gazprom to act. Yesterday its CEO Alexei Miller proposed to Azerbaijan's President Ilham Aliyev that Russia would buy gas from the republic at market prices under a long-term agreement.
              A source familiar with the proposal said purchases could start next year. Gazprom is ready to buy any amount offered by Azerbaijan at world prices, which may rise beyond $300.
              Previously, Azerbaijan imported Russian gas. In 2005, the monopoly sold it 4.5 billion cubic meters at $60 per 1,000 cubic meters, and in 2006, at $110. In 2007, gas supplies were cut by two thirds after prices rose to the average market figure of $230. Azerbaijan chose to increase its own production by exploiting the Shah Deniz gas field and agree a redistribution of gas quotas with Georgia and Turkey.
              Azerbaijan has 1.5 trillion cubic meters in known reserves, including 1.3 million in recoverable resources on the Shah Deniz field, located in the Azeri sector of the Caspian shelf. Azerbaijan consumes 11-14 billion cubic meters of gas per year. Despite this, the field's export potential, even in the first phase, is estimated at 12 billion cubic meters.
              During the second phase there are plans to increase exports by 5 to 7 billion cubic meters. In view of high transportation costs to Turkey and beyond through pipelines not yet built, whose estimated costs are rising all the time, Azerbaijan will find it difficult to compete with Gazprom.
              According to information available to Vremya Novostei, Aliyev said he would consider the proposal. After all, it opens a window of opportunity for further bargaining with gas buyers - Turkey, Greece, Italy and Austria. The fixed and moderately priced contracts have been concluded only with Turkey's Botas, and for 6.6 billion cubic meters.
              On the other hand, Baku is the main bastion of Western diplomacy in the Caspian region. Until now it was Azerbaijan that led the support for plans to create corridors for shipping energy resources to Europe bypassing Russia. There is a mix of interests here: first, transit (Azerbaijan and Turkey are linked by the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline and Baku-Tbilisi-Erzerum gas pipeline, which are far from operating at full capacity), political relations (especially with Washington) and a sort of grievance against Gazprom. In addition, to agree to Russia's proposal would mean leaving its own pipeline to Turkey empty."

              MOSCOW, June 3 (RIA Novosti) Russia, Germany exchange shots ahead of EU-Russia summit / Gazprom blocks plans to pump Caspian gas to EU bypassing Russia / Gazprom top managers sell their stakes / Gazprom improves chances of buying stake in...

              Comment


              • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                Originally posted by Azad View Post
                Very Bad news .... Good for Russia could be a catastrophe for Armenia.
                Why would this be a catastrophe for Armenia? This is nothing new. Russia already has very lucrative relations with Azerbaijan. As a matter of fact, despite Turkey's direct involvement in the Chechen insurgency, even Russian-Turkish bilateral trade have been very profitable for both nations. Economy is one thing geopolitics is another. Moscow and Baku cooperate in the energy sector, politics, trade, etc. In reality, ever since the Alievs took power Baku has been very compliant to demands by Moscow. Therefore, if Russia was to abandon its strategic relations/alliance with the Armenian Republic it could/would have done so many-many years ago. However, what strategic value would that have had for Moscow? How would abandoning Armenia's alliance serve Russian interests? If Moscow today is getting what it wants from Baku its only because Moscow holds the region's geopolitical/geoeconomic cards. It also holds the Karabagh card. Azerbaijan hold no real weight over Moscow. Azerbaijan is essentially a hostage to the Russian Federation. Baku knows that the Kremlin can essentially ruin Azerbaijan if it chose the path of belligerence. So, why would Moscow change what its been doing so successfully in the region? Why change the status quo?

                When the milk is free, why buy the cow?
                Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                Նժդեհ


                Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                  Originally posted by Armenian
                  Why would this be a catastrophe for Armenia?
                  As I mentioned many times in the past. Any pipeline that goes from Baku Westwards is Armenia's guarantor of stability and security. Once Western interest dissipate we will be "canon fodder". These last election events got suppressed cause of that energy route .... if that Western interest did not exist Armenia would be burning today. The Caucasus just like the Middle East should always be under checks and balances by more than one power IF smaller countries want to have none polarizing integrations into larger powers.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                    Originally posted by Azad View Post
                    As I mentioned many times in the past. Any pipeline that goes from Baku Westwards is Armenia's guarantor of stability and security.
                    Azad, you are essentially wishing for Armenia to remain an impoverished and backward nation in a hostile geopolitical zone. I agree in that the situation you described elevates the strategic importance of Armenia within the Kremlin. However, such a situation won't necessarily translate as a "guarantor of stability and security" in the region. Such a situation will simply turn the region into a much contested battle zone and as we can see battle zones never prosper.

                    Once Western interest dissipate we will be "canon fodder". These last election events got suppressed cause of that energy route .... if that Western interest did not exist Armenia would be burning today.
                    Why would Armenia burn? Once western interests in the region "dissipate" then and only then will we have an opportunity to build peace and prosperity. Until then the region will be a dangerous zone for active and inactive conflicts. The reason why Washington did not come down harsh on Armenia during the election crisis in Yerevan was because regional instability could have negatively impacted Azerbaijan's oil pipeline to the West. It's quite possible that Washington was also trying to avoid further problems with Moscow.

                    However, you are forgetting that even if western interests are eliminated in the south Caucasus it would still remain in Turkey and other adjacent regions. We 'dont' need western interests 'in' the Caucasus. Without western interest in the Caucasus Azerbaijan, already in a difficult geopolitical situation, will be useless geopolitically. Due to the other potentially anti-Russian republics in the Caucasus, due to Turkey/NATO and due to Iran - Armenia 'will' continue holding its geopolitical weight in the Kremlin. From a geopolitical perspective, all three nations in the south Caucasus are important for the Kremlin. I don't think Armenia's importance for Russia will diminish without the West causing serious troubles in the Caucasus.

                    The Caucasus just like the Middle East should always be under checks and balances by more than one power IF smaller countries want to have none polarizing integrations into larger powers.
                    And like the middle east it should remain a backward war zone for decades?

                    No, thank you.

                    I rather see Armenia 'fully' integrated into some sort of an alliance, a confederation, or even federation with Russia. I rather see western interests eliminated from within the region. Armenia as a nation can't survive under the present circumstances. The Caucasus desperately needs peace and stability. And until you get rid of American, European and Turkish interests in the region you won't see peace and stability.

                    I, generally speaking, agree with you and I fully understand where your thought process is coming from. However, subconsciously, I suspect that your fears regarding Russian-West relations and its impact on Armenia are Bolshevik derived in nature.
                    Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                    Նժդեհ


                    Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

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                    • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                      Originally posted by Armenian View Post
                      I rather see Armenia 'fully' integrated into some sort of an alliance, a confederation, or even federation with Russia. I rather see western interests eliminated from within the region.

                      Armenian, to keep it short. When encouraging the presence of Western interest, I was only wishing it to be part of Azerbaijan's policy and not that of Armenia. There is a reason why few days ago Iran switched camp on the Artsakh issue and Russia is trying to nail the last nail on the Western coffin in the Caucasus. You know very well the azeris are going to whine and precondition their newly friends the Artsakh issue. What do we have to offer in return now? since we are not exclusive.

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