The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[Mher]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Could this be viewed as a give and take that was negotiated in some part by the calculated actions of our government?
There is much positive benefit for Armenia in the quoted post above. There is also significant & positive benefit for Russia.
Each country tries to get the best deal they can through a variety of methods. Through negotiating from the strongest position they can muster.
Could it be that Armenia by negotiating with the EU & USA was able to negotiate with Russia an even better deal than was initially offered or intended by Russia?
As has been pointed out, we have got pressure from Russia. Could it be that Russia felt pressure from us by our negotiations with the west such that they sweetened their original intended offer?
Because I have said that Russia is not our mother should in no way be construed as hateful speech or intentions towards Russia.
To me the above mentioned deals at least in part are better deals than I'm seeing offered by the competing element.
Am I being premature in saying... Way to go Serj?
Artashes

That's an interesting point
It might not be the case though because the negotiations for the EU started long time ago, with the partnership talks beginning in 2008. The Customs Union only came into existence in 2010. So When Armenia began its aspirations of joining the EU in the early 2000s, they probably didn't think Putin would one day start his pet project and demand Armenia be a part of it. Furthermore, when the EU aspirations began, the Armenia and Azerbaijan budget didn't have the wide discrepancy they had today and oil prices hadn't exploded. So Armenia's existence wasn't dependent on Russian military support.

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:ARM:AZE&ifdim=region&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false

But it true that now Armenia will get plenty of offers from the other side, as has already happened, in attempt to maintain some influence in Armenia.

I do think though ultimately, even when ignoring the military aspect, on a purely economic basis, the Customs Union is the way to go.
What would signing the EU partnership yield Armenia in the next 10 years? Realistically Armenia wouldn't be allowed to become a member of the EU before 2020. Right now Armenia's biggest existential threat is not Azerbaijan, but the emigration problem. Armenia needs to improve now, not in 10 years. All joining the EU would do is get a chance to follow directions like dog (i.e Turkey) to get in line with the guidelines and principles of the EU. By the time Armenia joined the EU there might not have been anyone left in Armenia. Moreover, the EU is broke. It has bailed out so many of its failing economies, it doesn't simply have money to throw around. Even if such money was to be thrown around, it wouldn't be done without serious reforms which would have taken years. The aid already given, and the aid that will continue to be given is essential in developing Armenia where the standard of living to reverse the trend in immigration.

[Haykakan]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

"So Armenia's existence wasn't dependent on Russian military support."
Hmm really? So who was guarding the Turkish border at the time?

[Mher]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

"So Armenia's existence wasn't dependent on Russian military support."
Hmm really? So who was guarding the Turkish border at the time?

I meant to say not nearly to the same extent as it is today
Turkish attack on Armenia is not nearly as likely as Azerbaijani attack, and Armenians primary concern is that military budget balance, which was much closer in 2004 than it is today

[bell-the-cat]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

"So Armenia's existence wasn't dependent on Russian military support."
Hmm really? So who was guarding the Turkish border at the time?

A few years ago, when the BTC pipeline was being constructed, the Kars airport was closed for resurfacing. Some vital pieces of equipment (I think it was pumping equipment - and my source for the story was a resident of Kars) were urgently needed for the completion of this pipeline, a pipeline designed to further isolate Armenia and enrich Azerbaijan. It was not possible to fly the things in to Erzurum because the land route between Erzurum and Kars was unsuitable for their transport. Turkey gave Russia a call, and it was arranged for the equipment to be flown in to the Russian-controlled airstrip at Gyumri and then transfered across the border to Turkey through the Russian-controlled border crossing with Armenia. The supposedly independent county of Armenia had no control over any of this, and probably wasn't even aware of it.

[Haykakan]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Yes Bell once again you verify my point that Armenia was not then nor is it now anywhere near independent. We are nowhere near ready to assume our own security needs thus in no way are we now nor were we then independent.

[Hakob]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

A few years ago, when the BTC pipeline was being constructed, the Kars airport was closed for resurfacing. Some vital pieces of equipment (I think it was pumping equipment - and my source for the story was a resident of Kars) were urgently needed for the completion of this pipeline, a pipeline designed to further isolate Armenia and enrich Azerbaijan. It was not possible to fly the things in to Erzurum because the land route between Erzurum and Kars was unsuitable for their transport. Turkey gave Russia a call, and it was arranged for the equipment to be flown in to the Russian-controlled airstrip at Gyumri and then transfered across the border to Turkey through the Russian-controlled border crossing with Armenia. The supposedly independent county of Armenia had no control over any of this, and probably wasn't even aware of it.

So what kind of equipment is that can't be driven but flown? Too heavy for the roads but ligt enough for air plain? New phisics are working here right? As far as I know there is no modern road between Gumri to Kars that it better than other Turkish roads. Your Kars source has the brain of a cat for sure. And how would your source or you know what Armenian government knows or permits? Here is another BS very easy to see tru.

[Artashes]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

A few years ago, when the BTC pipeline was being constructed, the Kars airport was closed for resurfacing. Some vital pieces of equipment (I think it was pumping equipment - and my source for the story was a resident of Kars) were urgently needed for the completion of this pipeline, a pipeline designed to further isolate Armenia and enrich Azerbaijan. It was not possible to fly the things in to Erzurum because the land route between Erzurum and Kars was unsuitable for their transport. Turkey gave Russia a call, and it was arranged for the equipment to be flown in to the Russian-controlled airstrip at Gyumri and then transfered across the border to Turkey through the Russian-controlled border crossing with Armenia. The supposedly independent county of Armenia had no control over any of this, and probably wasn't even aware of it.

So what kind of equipment is that can't be driven but flown? Too heavy for the roads but ligt enough for air plain? New phisics are working here right? As far as I know there is no modern road between Gumri to Kars that it better than other Turkish roads. Your Kars source has the brain of a cat for sure. And how would your source or you know what Armenian government knows or permits? Here is another BS very easy to see tru.

Iragr (sp), fox news, & bells bull. See the commonality.
There is nothing positive to find amongst the Armenian people's or nation. But to point out the vitality of the worthless hominoids economy, one need not look long or far.
If no one questioned the veracity of the garbage fox, lragr, or bull spews forth...
A country that has been decimated by torture & theft & bell has come here to ridicule & and degrade. To point out every shortcomming. And extols the turk economy & judgment.
Pathetic & disgusting excuse for a ?life?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

So what kind of equipment is that can't be driven but flown? Too heavy for the roads but ligt enough for air plain? New phisics are working here right? As far as I know there is no modern road between Gumri to Kars that it better than other Turkish roads. Your Kars source has the brain of a cat for sure. And how would your source or you know what Armenian government knows or permits? Here is another BS very easy to see tru.

Hakob - who has never been to either Kars or Gyumri - or seen the road between the two - or seen the road between Erzurum and Kars. Unlike a lot of Armenians who seem to always profess knowledge of things they know nothing about, I've seen the roads on each side of the border having been as close to the border on each side as the border posts (of course those on the "Armenian" side are all manned by Russians and fly the Russian flag). The road on the Turkish side (Tiknis/Kalkankalesi to Akyaka to Kars), is modern and in superb condition, there is also the railway - still maintained - that runs right up to the border, in Armenia the road to the border crossing on the Armenian side is still well maintained and perfectly servicable - and it too has a railway though on a different gauge. The line of the border at Gyumri is fully controlled by Russia and its forces can do whatever they like (as in the recent case of them setting up road blocks inside Armenia) without needing permission from Armenian authorities. At the time this hapened the Erzurum-Kars railway was closed for its conversion to a high-speed railway and the road at the Sarikamish pass was being reworked. My source was a Kars resident who knows about such things and has no reason to lie about them and he mentioned the story in passing when we were talking about the airport being closed. The equipment was something large and was needed very urgently by some of the contractors, but I no longer remember what specific piece of equipment it was that he mentioned or, after it had crossed the border, if it arrived at Kars by road or railway.

It is not correct to say that Armenia is Russia's poodle - a poodle implies a dog that is well-treated like a pet. Armenia is Russia's mongrel dog, kept tied-up in the back yard, occasionally kicked, occasionally fed: a process that has gone on for so long that the dog no can longer tell the difference and appreciates both as signs that it is being noticed and is thus of some importance to its master.

[Hakob]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Just one small correction Hakob. They (baboons) got their ass kicked when they tried to prevent us from taking back 20% of our land that they stole. It was never their land.
Everything else in your post is obviously accurate.
Artashes

Thanks Artashes. Sorry for the mistake. I was talking from baboon's point of view. But even that I should not do.

[Eddo211]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

It is not correct to say that Armenia is Russia's poodle - a poodle implies a dog that is well-treated like a pet. Armenia is Russia's mongrel dog, kept tied-up in the back yard, occasionally kicked, occasionally fed: a process that has gone on for so long that the dog no can longer tell the difference and appreciates both as signs that it is being noticed and is thus of some importance to its master.

Such a worn out Turkish comment, and it means alot coming from the Hyeclub admin's pet cat, lol.......the only one barking like junkyard dog around here its you Bells and you been doing for so long that you think you are of some importance to your master.