Armenian-Turkish Relations

[hipeter924]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Also I wanna say sth. about the opening of Turkey-Armenia border too.
I crazily want it to occur. But I can't understand people who hates Turkiye and Turks.
I like Armenia and I would love to hear the opening of border.
But I wanna ask all of you this question;
If you hate Turks, why do you want the border to be opened for economic reasons?
Is it faif to be fed by enemies' bread?
I say I want it also, but I like both Armenians and Turks which I represent both.
As for you, Why do you want to be in relation with your enemy?
You don't accept Turkish border and demand nearly half of Turkish lands but still you want the border to be opened. Is it moral?
If you hate someone you simply don't contact him.

1. In answer to hating Turks. Do Israeli's hate people who deny the Nazi Holocaust. Yes they do. Also Israel and Armenia are in a similar situation, hostile Arab neighbours that want to destroy them. Would you hate someone that wants to destroy you? I would.

2. The Turks want the border open. The area on the Turkish side of the border is far poorer than the Armenian side of the border. The real reason for Armenia is they want to send goods into Europe (by taking it through Turkey) to nations friendly with Armenia and bypass the Turkish economy altogether.

3. For the border/land rights issue tell that to the Greeks on Cyprus. Armenian's may want their land back that was stolen from them but at least they don't take lands by force* and kill people, which is the Turkish and Azeri way. Also it was never Turkish land...it was land that was cleared by committing Genocide against the Armenian people.

*All the wars were in response to Azeri's and Turk's killing Armenian's

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Hi i just want to ask something;
Armenians and Turks lived together for centuries with no problem just like brothers.
Armenian language was not disappeared, which we can speak today, religion was not an obligation also.
Armenians lived with 'murderer Turks' for centuries.
But in a time when Turks has lost their power, and when France and Russia used Armenians against the events occured.
Now here comes the main question:
Turks were ok for centuries, but within a short time period they turned into monsters ha?
I can't understand this.
Maybe we should look for some other guiltyies too..

1.) Armenians were persecuted while under ottoman control for not being muslim and not converting. turks teach that to there students so when they grow up they think "Oh it was the Armenians that started to attack us".
2.) We werent used by anyone, while we were being attacked by the turks the Russians said they would help us. but what you didnt learn in a turkish school is when turks claim Armenians were siding with the enemy, there were Armenians in russia who were in the army, only a handful of ottoman Armenians joined the Russians. its not an excuse to say because Russian Armenians were fighting with the Soviets that all Armenians betrayed the turks.
3.) here is an part from talaat pashas black book:
“[Talaat stated that]… they had already disposed of three quarters of them [Armenians], that there were none left in Bitlis, Van, Erzeroum, and that the hatred was so intense now that they have to finish it. . . . He said they would take care of the Armenians at Zor and elsewhere but they did not want them in Anatolia. I told him three times that they were making a serious mistake and would regret it. He said, ‘We know we have made mistakes, but we never regret.’”
—8 August 1915 diary entry of conversations between Talaat Pasha and U.S. Ambassador Henry Morgenthau, United States Diplomacy on the Bosphorus: The Diaries of Ambassador Morgenthau, 1913–1916
3.) The Black Book cites official figures from the 1914 Ottoman population survey, with a note explaining that this figure, like the figures for Armenians registered in 1917, should be increased by a factor of 30 percent to account for undercounting. The note thus increases the main Apostolic (or Gregorian) Armenian community from 1,187,818 to 1,500,000 people before deportations. The note also mentions the figure for Catholic Armenians in the Ottoman Empire as 63,967 (which could also be revised upward to 83,157). There is no figure given for Protestant Armenians. These figures bring the number of Ottoman Armenians, based on official figures, close to 1,700,000 people.
According to these figures, the total number of Armenians who were missing in 1917 was around 1,000,000 people. If one discounts those who might have fled to Russia, the number of missing Armenians was still in the region of 800,000 to 900,000 people.
4.) Armenia wants the border open because, like stated above, for trade. The georgia border is unreliable as we have seen in the past and we need something more stable. turkey keeps using Artsakh as a precondition, do you think thats right? Maybe Armenia should use Cyprus as a precondition. Armenia will leave Artsakh as soon as turkey leaves Cyprus.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Hi i just want to ask something;
Armenians and Turks lived together for centuries with no problem just like brothers.

You are either a liar or an idiot to say that. If you are the right sort of idiot, you could find yourself a happy home on this forum. But you seem to want to be the wrong sort of idiot.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

You are either a liar or an idiot to say that. If you are the right sort of idiot, you could find yourself a happy home on this forum. But you seem to want to be the wrong sort of idiot.

As much as i dont like cat i still have to agree that this guy is crazy or more likely misinfirmed when saying turcks and armenians got along fine. If you call being labeled "xxxx" and taxed to death and periodically slaughtered for no reason and having your property confiscated for no reason and being denied the right to have schools that teach our languadge and having your testimony mean absolutly nothing in court of "law" and having your women kidnapped and raped and your livestock stolen....then yeh we got a long just dandy.Sadly I bet there are a lot of misinformed people like this shmuck in turckey who are taught nothing but bs.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

damn dirty turks:

Armenian monuments in Turkey being transformed into ‘Ottoman heritage’ (Photo spread)
21.05.2009 12:45 GMT+04:00
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The ruins of ancient Armenian capital Ani will probably have the fate Holy Cross Church on Ahtamar Island.

As a PanARMENIAN.Net corresponded reported from the scene, restoration works are being carried out by Turkish specialists on the ruins of Ani.

According to RA Ministry of Culture spokesperson Gayane Durgaryan, Armenia offered Turkey to send specialists but received no response so far.

Presently, the foundations of temples and support pillars of the Cathedral and city wall are being fortified.

http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/...ate=2009-05-21 (for pictures)

they have a memorial and on the plaque say:
"This monument is put up by the Kars governorship on 1992, in the memory of our inncent civilians who lost there lives during the Armenians trial of wiping the village of subatan off the map." ...
this horrible plaque keeps on going, http://www.panarmenian.net/addons/ani/p1010690.html

[Federate]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

The article presents some potential problems, that are from not brought up usually, if the Armenia-Turkey border opens.
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Instead of border opening, Armenia must require security blanket from Turkey
It would be naive and dangerous to consider that on the other side of Ararat there live people, who are looking forward to peace and friendly relations with us.
21.05.2009 GMT+04:00

Normalization of Armenian-Turkish relations, that has been much spoken about lately, simply does not exist. There are only various meetings organized between diplomats, representatives of community and others. Presidents of the two countries may once more meet within the framework of the football match between the Turkish and Armenian teams in Kayseri. And the entire normalization process will be concluded at this. The whole intrigue is reduced to the plot of what to do: not to pay attention to the powers that have made up their minds to reconcile every state in the region in order to then launch a war for a new repartition of influence spheres or to agree on the conditions proposed.
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Meanwhile, it is important to bear in mind that evil peace is better than a good war. But there is also another danger for Turkey and Armenia: the desire of Kurds to at any cost join hands with Armenians, which would be a painless job with the boundary open. According to Ankara’s version, once the Armenian-Turkish, or - to be more exact – the Armenian-Kurdish boundary is open, there will begin the commerce of weapons, exchange of militants, and as a result Armenia will share the fare of Northern Iraq. Turkey has thoroughly counted this version, but it’s difficult to say how official Yerevan pictures this, since cases of information leak are more frequent in Turkey than in Armenia. Under the conditions of total secrecy of Armenian-Turkish negotiations and occasionally appearing “analytical” surveys, it becomes difficult to judge how deeply Yerevan realizes the “advantages” and the “charms” of the open border.

If we take as basis the pessimistic version, we can forecast that no one in the world will stir a finger to help Armenia, like in 1915, when, however, we drew no lesson. It would be naive and dangerous to consider that on the other side of Ararat there live people, who are looking forward to peace and friendly relations with us. Armenia may simply drive herself into just another trap, similar to the one into which the Dashnaks drove themselves in 1908, by supporting the Young Turks who had actually given carte blanche for extermination of our nation.

There is also a less pessimistic view: Armenia slowly dissolves in Turkey or Kurdistan, undertaking nothing, but wants to survive. This way leads if not to an instantaneous destruction, at least to a complete assimilation in a maximum of a couple of generations. There are still some Armenians living in the desolate villages of Western Armenia. They remember their origins, but know no single word in Armenian, and naturally, practice Islam. Alas, no optimistic view can be expected in the current situation: we are few in number, we are deserted, we have not finally formulated our national idea, and lastly, we do not have a statesman, similar to Ataturk. It sounds unpleasant, sad, but it is so.

Of no less importance is the economic factor. In all probability, Armenia will gain outlet to the Black sea ports, such as to Trabzon. But to what extent will the safety of loads and the security of their attendants be guaranteed against the background of the splash of nationalism and the caught-in-war regions of the Turkish and Kurdish militants? It is difficult to picture a more incorrect and a more inconvenient way, saturated with high prices for the transit. The tariffs will definitely be established Turkey, and how she is able to dictate her will can be easily seen by the example of Nabucco. It is not even excluded that transportation through Georgia, under the entire unpredictability of Georgian authorities and Russian pressure, will cost considerably less than under the “open” Armenian-Turkish boundary.

As a matter of principle, instead of normalization of diplomatic relations and border opening, which, by the way, is of no value in itself, Armenia must require security blanket from Turkey. And because it is impractical to require safety from Ankara, Armenia has no choice but to rely only on herself.

Karine Ter-Sahakyan

http://www.panarmenian.net/details/eng/?nid=1028

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Interesting developpment... I wonder why they realize it 'now'? Didn't they know before that they would lose "Azerbaijan"?

Karabakh compromise
22 May, 2009 04:26:00

Prime Minister Erdogan’s message of trust delivered during his trip to Azerbaijan; “borders will not be opened until the Karabakh-Nagorno issue is solved” was inspired by the National Security Council.

The fact that just as Turkey and Armenia had begun to take unconditional steps towards opening up the borders, Prime Minister Erdogan, during a trip to Azerbaijan, offered Baku a sense of security by way of stating; “borders will not be opened until the Karabakh issue is solved,” has been assessed as the ‘erasing of all steps taken with Armenia.’ However, it turns out that prior to the May 13th trip where the Prime Minister delivered the aforementioned message to Baku, the clear position had actually been expressed by generals during a meeting of the National Security Council attended by Erdogan. According to information obtained by SABAH, during the April 28th National Security Council meeting, Erdogan was told; “We do want to go forward with the process between Turkey and Armenia. However, we can not lose Azerbaijan. There may be differences of opinions, however losing Azerbaijan for Turkey can not even be an issue.” The duty of delivering this message to Azerbaijan fell on Erdogan during his visit to the nation on May 13th. The decision made by the National Security Council was openly expressed by Erdogan during his address made at the Azerbaijani Parliament


Source: http://www.sabahenglish.com/politics/7662.html

[Sako]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

lol we are living 1000 years in anatolia.. it seems that we permamnetly stay here.

We've been living all over that region for 5000 years until some mongols appeared and asked for help because their people were dying of illiteracy ! We should've politely said no because soon, they would multipy like ants and start to cut the hands that fed them. Learn more about your own history lad ... you have a lot to learn.

there is no advantage for us to create a good relationship with armenia.

There is and if you weren't so blind, you'd see those advantages.

u want to good realtionship with us because we are rich and u want us to open all turkish borders. so u guys can incerase your export incomes.

Not everything is political and economic Abu. I have friends in Turkey I would GLADLY give an arm and leg for. We want good relations so that there won't be so much tension between our two nations. We want good relations so that innocent people won't have to die, be harrassed or be imprisoned any longer. But why am I saying all this to a materialistic person like you?

but first you need to be polite and show some respect to us . if you wanna solve your poverity.

Haha, I'd rather live the life of a begger then live a life of a Turk like you. And we aren't as poverty stricken as you and neither are we as fear stricken as most Turks ... starting from your pathetic leaders who pay billions trying to hide the AG. We live in a country without pathetic laws that shackle it's citizens. We live in a country with justice and freedom flying around in the air. It's you that should politely ask us to open your eyes and forgive you for what your pathetic grandfathers and gov. did and continue to do.

I've never met an Armenian that wasn't awesome

funny, i've never met an armenian that wasn't trying to be A) black or B) scarface or C) BOTH!

And I've seen lot's of idiotic Turks in my day but you special...

[Sako]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

lol i got this signuture because i saw many racist things about turks azeris and jeews in this forum..

And they are there for a reason! Maybe you'd like to create a sig. showing how racist your friends in Turkey are and have been for centuries, lol. Oh wait, that can't work because your a Turk.

i have armenian friends and i love them.. i dont have any problem with them.

Sorry kardesh, it's hard to believe. Your behavior here proves you wrong.

but u should understand that if you wanna create good relationship with us yopu need to respect our culture. and yes it s a big advantange for you guys to create good realtionshp with turkey since you have alot of economic problems.

And it's a big advantage for ALL of you if you have a good relationship with us because Turkey won't seem pathetic and childish anymore. To have good relations with us, you need to change your attitude and face your past. If you don't do that, you can forget about anything ever happening. And we aren't doing this only for economic gains!

you still live in fairy tale. you never will get anatolia .. anatolia is our land. if want some part you can live with kurds. we dont mind.

Fairy tale? Son, your entire nation lives in one of the greatest fairy tales ever told ! We don't want all of Anatolia. We're not like you Turks. We don't murder people for land. We don't steal people's houses and belongings. We don't do Genocide. How can I remove millions from their homes? No, there are better ways to make you face justice.

if you keep making barbaric turks facist turks propanga there will be no negatiantion.

And if all of you keep denying your hellish past, acting like punks, and walking around like nothing happened, telling us what to do ... nothing will ever happened.

by the way you may not believe but i love armenia and armenian people.

I'm sure we all here can feel the love flowing right from that Turkish heart of yours. Just brings tears to our eyes!

[hipeter924]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

quete;

We don't want all of Anatolia. We're not like you Turks. We don't murder people for land. We don't steal people's houses and belongings. We don't do Genocide. How can I remove millions from their homes? No, there are better ways to make you face justice.

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all the small countries and weak races say that

irish says they are not bad people therefore they couldnt win england

indian says they are so cool and innocent therefore they were used by england


blacks think they are very good people and other all races are murderer and barbaric

always same story no one admit that they were weak and easy target.

now america kills people before ottoman and england empire.

it is bad but truth. weaks suffer from strongs.

i agree that tragedic event was really awful in ww1 but about anatolia thing we just won alot of wars in 10-15 centruires.

Considering Armenia is a small nation are you saying its a weak race? That they are incapable of defending themselves, and their nationhood. What drugs are you on?