Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Beacuse they think Armenia and Diaspora are trying to partition Turkey.

Partition turkey? Partition turkey? What about our anscestral lands after having them and the turks slaughtering us in our own homeland and then having the turks stealing our lands after having committed the Genocide? What about paying back the 3 Million Armenians heirs reparations? The J'ews got from the Nazi Germans even the golden teeth of their deceased from the Haulocaust, then why would we not get our reparation rights? Huh? Huh? Huh? The Jews think that their deceased's blood are dearer than our 1.5 Million deceased's blood? Or do they think that their heirs are worthy to be paid gross, I mean gross amounts of money, but not the heirs of the Armenians? And this is called justice? This is called ethics? This is called morals? This is called humanity? This is called Humility?

[Army]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Partition turkey? Partition turkey? What about our anscestral lands after having them and the turks slaughtering us in our own homeland and then having the turks stealing our lands after having committed the Genocide? What about paying back the 3 Million Armenians heirs reparations? The J'ews got from the Nazi Germans even the golden teeth of their deceased from the Haulocaust, then why would we not get our reparation rights? Huh? Huh? Huh? The Jews think that their deceased's blood are dearer than our 1.5 Million deceased's blood? Or do they think that their heirs are worthy to be paid gross, I mean gross amounts of money, but not the heirs of the Armenians? And this is called justice? This is called ethics? This is called morals? This is called humanity? This is called Humility?

Why are you attacking me, I just told you what 'they' think.

And yet, Germany did a lot for reparations but still gave no land to J'ews.

Nobody likes it. Would you like if I want Գուգարք back to Georgia, because its "historical land of Georgians" ?

It wouldn't surprise me if Turkey gets partitioned into provinces after entry into the EU.

Currently some columnists and proffessors in Turkey disgussing on a more federative unitaire (unitary) system instead of the current total unitaire state regime.

Kurdish extremists sometime talk about a total-federative state; however that does not seem possible since the support to that idea is very weak. And West Turkey is heavily insdustrial and economically-strong; East can not stay alive in a so-called-federative-state without the West.

I do not believe that Turkey could be fallen into a partition after joining EU. But it may have a German-style federative but still unionist (central) regime. However, in my opinion, if a partition does happen; it would be Kurdish nationalists that would benefit much and as far as I could see, majority of the Kurds dislike Armenians more than they dislike Turks.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

As far as the negotiations are conserned i think everyone is missing a important point (eventhough i mentioned it several times), Armenia does not make its decisions on its own! We do what our big brother(russia) tells us to do which is usually but not always in armenias interest. There is a big game being played in the caucuses involving the greatest powers of the day and Armenia is a pawn in this game and a pawn is all it can be for now. The maps will be redrawn soon but more then likely not the way most people think. We are far from getting western armenia and it is not on russias agenda either. Control of trade and oil routes is whats important today and this means Armenia serving as a antipanturckish wedge and a alternative to georgia. Regardless of any document we sign Armenia is in a strong position here because of its location. Remember you cannot give up what you do not have- we do not have western armenia thus signing a document giving it up is meaningless. The strong make and break the rules as they see fit and documents are worthless-hell the wilsonian and serves treaties should show you just how worthless documents are for gods sake people look at reality for what it is not through some utopic shades. Armenia is as strong as russia wants it to be, i think the georgia example is a dam good one of how russia can make or break you. Now before people go trashing russia please remember there would not be a armenia without russias help (i dont care who tells you what otherwise). Russia needs Armenia there thus there it is, the moment it doesnt need us anymore we will not exist in the caucuses. This may not be what many want to hear but reality is not about pleasing you, it is about the difference between fantasy and the real situation on the ground. We have kharabagh and may yet get javakh to, this means russia wants a bigger wedge-influence in the region and is using us to get it, this is in our interest as well. You need to look beyond the obvious and your own emotions to understand what is good and what is bad.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Karabakh will never be Azerbaijani: MP
From: "Katia M. Peltekian" <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 23:11:08 PDT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Information-Analytic Agency NEWS.am, Armenia
Sept 19 2009


Karabakh will never be Azerbaijani: MP

13:16 / 09/19/2009If Turkish side keeps laying down preconditions and
state that border opening is impossible without Karabakh conflict
settlement, RA President Serzh Sargsyan will not go to Turkey for
October 14 football match. Republican Party Press Secretary Edward
Sharmazanov told NEWS.am, adding `President clearly stated in which
event he will go. His position is precise and principled.'

Commenting on RA Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandyan's statement that
`Attempting to link Armenian-Turkish and Karabakhi processes, Turkey
might fail both' Sharmazanov said: `Minister's statement is logical,
as Armenian side have always stated on various levels that
Armenian-Turkish rapprochement cannot be directly linked with Karabakh
peace process. Saying there are no preconditions in the Protocols, we
mean the Armenia-Turkey rapprochement cannot be linked with any other
process, and any attempt in doing so conflicts the documents.'

MP also touched upon yesterday's statement by Turkish Premier Erdogan,
that `Border will not be opened without Karabakh conflict settlement',
emphasizing: `Establishment of the relations based on preconditions is
unacceptable to us. Any ultimatum is inapplicable for Armenia. If
Erdogan intends to present an ultimatum, he better do so to his
friends ' Azeris and explain them that Nagorno-Karabakh will never be
within Azerbaijan boundaries.'


Dont say i didnt tell you so.

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Why are you attacking me, I just told you what 'they' think.

And yet, Germany did a lot for reparations but still gave no land to J'ews.

Nobody likes it. Would you like if I want Գուգարք back to Georgia, because its "historical land of Georgians" ?

Listen I didn't attack anyone, I just stated facts, and the facts are that obviously Germany couldn't have given land to Jews because Germany has never been a Jewery land ever. Instead Germany gave millions and millions of dollars to every heir of the survivors and to Israel so that they can build their Israel which is where they wanted the land to begin with. But Germany is still giving Jews monies to the heirs of the Haulocaust survivors.

Yet turkey after slaughtering more than 70% of Armenians within their own homeland, turkey stole all our anscestral historical Armenian lands. These are facts and you nor I cannot rewrite the facts.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Armenians are the indigenous people of Javakh, Eastern "Turkey", Nakhichevan and Artsakh, as the indigenous they have the right to reparations in their own land, xxxs were never even in Israel and they have severely brutalized Palestinians to get their land and with German money, yet one Armenian like Hagop Hagopian attacks a civilian and the entire world is Anti Armenian, this in my opinion is just purely anti Armenian bias, Armenians get the raw deal as they are not willing to bend over for America and Nato and even if they did, it wouldn't help as Turkey is where the money is, and NATO loves Money.

As a friend of mine said 'Indigenous rights and no compromise" in the very least the UN should protect Armenian historical sites, it is an ancient part of human history that without it a chapter is lost in the culture of all of humanity, as humans with a conscience we owe it the world and to Armenians to protect Armenian history from further revision and have the truth presented to the world.

In my opinion Armenians cannot lose Artsakh, next the Azeris will want to take Yerevan, I agree with Avo, the Artsakh (not Nargorno Karabagh, its not a Turkish land, the indigenous people and majority call it Artsakh therefore it is Artsakh) stays Armenian or no deals should be made.

Armenians have been severely stabbed in the back by Turks, what is the real reason for this "altruisitc" border opening, my bet is to try and take control of Armenia, it should be rejected

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Currently some columnists and professors in Turkey discussing on a more federate unitaire (unitary) system instead of the current total unitaire state regime.

Kurdish extremists sometime talk about a total-federate state; however that does not seem possible since the support to that idea is very weak. And West Turkey is heavily industrial and economically-strong; East can not stay alive in a so-called-federate-state without the West.

I do not believe that Turkey could be fallen into a partition after joining EU. But it may have a German-style federate but still unionist (central) regime. However, in my opinion, if a partition does happen; it would be Kurdish nationalists that would benefit much and as far as I could see, majority of the Kurds dislike Armenians more than they dislike Turks.

The Kurds don't like anybody in the region and their biggest chance of independence is taking a chunk out of Turkey. So which makes more sense, giving part of Eastern Turkey back to Armenians through peaceful settlement or letting the Kurds kill Turkish soldiers on a daily basis until they get something that was never theirs in the first place. Obviously we know the answer to that question but since there is big money to be made on the military, peace is never really the goal.

Armenians are the indigenous people of Javakh, Eastern "Turkey", Nakhichevan and Artsakh, as the indigenous they have the right to reparations in their own land, xxxs were never even in Israel and they have severely brutalized Palestinians to get their land and with German money, yet one Armenian like Hagop Hagopian attacks a civilian and the entire world is Anti Armenian, this in my opinion is just purely anti Armenian bias, Armenians get the raw deal as they are not willing to bend over for America and Nato and even if they did, it wouldn't help as Turkey is where the money is, and NATO loves Money.

NATO was created to fight the Red Army which it did with flying colors. Unfortunately like all bureaucracies once its goal is complete, everything it does after is just to justify its existence. Hopefully the "mission" in Afghanistan is the last couple nails into the coffin of NATO.

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

......Remember you cannot give up what you do not have- we do not have western armenia thus signing a document giving it up is meaningless....

Not so at all.........it matters a great deal.

Also it doesn't appear so meaningless to our enemy now does it, in fact it is their most important objective.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Erdogan: border with Armenia will be closed till Karabakh conflict resolution
18.09.2009 12:19 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has stated that his country’s position has not changed and that the border with Armenia will be kept closed unless the Nagorno Karabakh conflict is resolved.

“Azerbaijani and Armenian Presidents intensified talks between with mediation of their Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev,” he said.

“If we do not see Armenia taking action, the border will not be opened,” Milliyet quoted Erdogan as saying.

Does any one know how the Armenian government has reacted about this?

[Joseph]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Erdogan: border with Armenia will be closed till Karabakh conflict resolution
18.09.2009 12:19 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has stated that his country’s position has not changed and that the border with Armenia will be kept closed unless the Nagorno Karabakh conflict is resolved.

“Azerbaijani and Armenian Presidents intensified talks between with mediation of their Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev,” he said.

“If we do not see Armenia taking action, the border will not be opened,” Milliyet quoted Erdogan as saying.

Does any one know how the Armenian government has reacted about this?

Not sure yet. Armenia should most certainly end discussions. Turkey has already violated the signed protocols by trying to link Artsakh with the issues that were stipulated to be discussed. No surprise.