Elections in Armenia

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

You are forgetting the stunning victory of Armenians troops under General Njdeh against the Bolsheviks. There are many other such instances of military victory of armenians in our history where the odds were against us.

Garegin Njdeh is one of those great individuals that come along only every several hundred years. Yes, in skirmishes, he did defeat the Bolshevik several times in his mountainous stronghold. However, militarily speaking the newly formed Bolshevik red army was not prepared to do battle with him at the time, they had more important battles to fight elsewhere in the Caucasus. When they returned, with a real military force, Garegin saw the futility of his fight and made a deal with them.

With you there seems to be a blurry line between reality and fantasy.

Besides, what does any of this have to do with the war in Artsakh? Are you one of them cowboys that think Armenia could have defeated the Azerbaijan without Russian support??? Go and talk your nonsense to Armenian war veterans or active duty military personal, they'll laugh in your face.

What a bunch of morons our nation has turned into...

Morality of troops is a major determinant of the outcome of military hostilities. We prooved this in Karabakh. During the Artsakh War, we faced the most difficulties fighting Russian troops who were on the side of Azerbaijanis.

Yeah ok... Palestinians have morality to, so do Iraqis by the way... And two years ago the Hizbollah defeated the IDF with hunting rifles, modern anti-tank missiles from Russia played no role, nor did their long range surface-to-surface missiles, nor did their funding/training by Syria and Iran...

With politics being politics on the side, Russia allowed some serious wrongs against Armenians, and I for one will never forgive them for this.

No, it was the "Soviets" that allowed some serious "wrongs" against Armenians, not "Russia". However, in politics there is no such thing as right or wrong. The Soviets did what they thought to be right a the time.

You will never "forgive" them?!?!?!

You owe Czarist Russia, the Soviet Union and the current Russian Federation gratitude for allowing the existence of an Armenian Republic in the Caucasus.

Grow the hell up.

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I support close ties with Russia. There is a difference of having close ties and being a w-hore like some clowns suggest. Armenia is independent. And shall remain.

[Federation]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Besides, what does any of this have to do with the war in Artsakh? Are you one of them cowboys that think Armenia could have defeated the Azerbaijan without Russian support??? Go and talk your nonsense to Armenian war veterans or active duty military personal, they'll laugh in your face.

My point was to show you that more weapons, better technology, and numbers do necessarily translate into military victory, that's what this has to do with the war in Artsakh.

Go and talk to Armenian war veterans about how the war in Artsakh was a victory of Russia over Azerbaijan, and they'll probably drop you on the spot. Why don't you go and read a few books on the Artsakh conflict (I mean from credible sources, as your claims are based entirely on Azerbaijani fabrications). Russia at the time couldn't handle its own problems (the chenchens), let alone win a war for the Armenians. If you aren't aware of the Russian obstacle we Armenians faced in the Artsakh liberation war, then I suggest you open up a book and start reading.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

My point...

You don't have a "point," you are a child. I'll try talking to you when you get past puberty.

[Federation]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

You don't have a "point," you are a child. I'll try talking to you when you get past puberty.

You know what, I think it's pretty obvious to everyone here that you some serious pyschological issues. I suggest that you seek professional help. And please quit speaking on behalf of the ARF, get a life you psycho.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

You know what, I think it's pretty obvious to everyone here that you some serious pyschological issues. I suggest that you seek professional help. And please quit speaking on behalf of the ARF, get a life you psycho.

I really want to kno what your problem is with Russia. And did you know that there where weapons coming in from russia and that serj went after new weapons in Moscow. The Russians didn't win the war, but we couldn't have won without their aid. They were one of the few who were providing us with weapons. How do you think we were going to fight if we ddin't have any bullets left or spaire parts for the tanks.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

You know what, I think it's pretty obvious to everyone here that you some serious pyschological issues. I suggest that you seek professional help. And please quit speaking on behalf of the ARF, get a life you psycho.

You got it, Mr. Dashnaktsutyun...

[Federation]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I really want to kno what your problem is with Russia. And did you know that there where weapons coming in from russia and that serj went after new weapons in Moscow. The Russians didn't win the war, but we couldn't have won without their aid. They were one of the few who were providing us with weapons. How do you think we were going to fight if we ddin't have any bullets left or spaire parts for the tanks.

Lima: What was the extent of Russia’s role in the success of Gharabagh’s liberation
struggle? What role does it have in providing for Gharabagh’s future security?
Markarian: I firmly believe that the interests of superpowers—great powers—
in a region are shaped by the actors in the region. Over the past twelve years we
have seen various stances from the Soviet and now Russian authorities. Some
days they have been with us. Other days they have been against us. Some days
they have joined the enemy in attacking us. We have seen all of this. So I don’t
think that’s the right way to formulate the question. The issue is this: through
our power, our own efforts, our initiative, and our will we have created situations
in the region, and around these situations the regional interests of the great
powers have taken shape. These situations might have favored one power or
another. That’s a different issue. What matters is that we created the situation on
the ground. And it is in relation to that new situation that the interests of those
states were formulated. It was not the programs of those states that took us
toward a change of situation. It requires no great feat of remembering to recall
Gorbachev’s original attitude toward the raising of the issue of Gharabagh. If we
think that the current situation in Gharabagh is in Russia’s interests, it could
have been arranged much more readily under Gorbachev than any other time.
Then we must consider that in our successful days—let us say the acme was
the liberation of Shushi—after the liberation of Shushi we had great defeats because
we were fighting not only the Azerbaijani army. We lost Getashen,
Shahumian, an important part of Martakert, and it was not the Azerbaijani military
that defeated us. It was others.
Lima: Russia, to be specific.
Markarian: Naturally.
Lima: You were part of those battles, weren’t you?
Markarian: Personally?
Lima: You personally.
Markarian: I was present, yes. It is another matter that Azerbaijan’s internal
politics turned out such that they themselves expelled the Russians and the Russians
were no longer at their side. But the Russian military has never fought with
us against Azerbaijan. It is we who have fought. It’s just that the Russians were
no longer at the Azerbaijanis’ side, and that in itself was a great help to us. Thus,
Gharabagh’s struggle cannot be considered a result of Russian policy. It is the
result of a purely Armenian program, a purely Armenian initiative, purely Armenian
will, and not of plans laid elsewhere.

http://www.gomidas.org/forum/af8-mark.pdf

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Lima: What was the extent of Russia’s role in the success of Gharabagh’s liberation
struggle? What role does it have in providing for Gharabagh’s future security?
Markarian: I firmly believe that the interests of superpowers—great powers—
in a region are shaped by the actors in the region. Over the past twelve years we
have seen various stances from the Soviet and now Russian authorities. Some
days they have been with us. Other days they have been against us. Some days
they have joined the enemy in attacking us. We have seen all of this. So I don’t
think that’s the right way to formulate the question. The issue is this: through
our power, our own efforts, our initiative, and our will we have created situations
in the region, and around these situations the regional interests of the great
powers have taken shape. These situations might have favored one power or
another. That’s a different issue. What matters is that we created the situation on
the ground. And it is in relation to that new situation that the interests of those
states were formulated. It was not the programs of those states that took us
toward a change of situation. It requires no great feat of remembering to recall
Gorbachev’s original attitude toward the raising of the issue of Gharabagh. If we
think that the current situation in Gharabagh is in Russia’s interests, it could
have been arranged much more readily under Gorbachev than any other time.
Then we must consider that in our successful days—let us say the acme was
the liberation of Shushi—after the liberation of Shushi we had great defeats because
we were fighting not only the Azerbaijani army. We lost Getashen,
Shahumian, an important part of Martakert, and it was not the Azerbaijani military
that defeated us. It was others.
Lima: Russia, to be specific.
Markarian: Naturally.
Lima: You were part of those battles, weren’t you?
Markarian: Personally?
Lima: You personally.
Markarian: I was present, yes. It is another matter that Azerbaijan’s internal
politics turned out such that they themselves expelled the Russians and the Russians
were no longer at their side. But the Russian military has never fought with
us against Azerbaijan. It is we who have fought. It’s just that the Russians were
no longer at the Azerbaijanis’ side, and that in itself was a great help to us. Thus,
Gharabagh’s struggle cannot be considered a result of Russian policy. It is the
result of a purely Armenian program, a purely Armenian initiative, purely Armenian
will, and not of plans laid elsewhere.

http://www.gomidas.org/forum/af8-mark.pdf

I know the Soviets sided with the Azeris but the Russians he's talking about are they soldiers or mercaneries. because if they are mercenaries the goverment can't be blaimed for them. And the soviets is not the same as Russia

[Federation]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

You got it, Mr. Dashnaktsutyun...

I'm glad you understand, Mr. Azerbaijan's consulate to A/C Forum.