Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

[Federation]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

If after all this time, from when the elections took place to today you have not realized what levin attempted and after last weeks declaration at the ARF meeting that a foreign power(s) had attempted to subvert our nation, you can not see this for what it was, a zog/cia/soros sponsored "color revolution" then you have very deep problems.

Kneres aper, bayts do boot es?

It was the authorities that was responsible for widespread social dissatisfaction, --This was the ARF's official line during the election campaign and remains so today. While dark forces attempted to exploit the peoples dissatisfaction, it was nevertheless the authorities that gave cause for mass dissatisfaction. If the people lived normal lives, no one could have made them rise up in protests. Do you not understand this much?

[Armenian]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Well you came off a little more pessimistic than usual bro , but I must say that what you pointed out is not all wrong, it's just that we need to look at the positive aspect of the situation as well. First, Armenia came out of a war that on paper it was supposed to lose, peace (more or less) has been maintained for over 10 years allowing our fledgling economy to grow so that for the past 7 years Armenia has had one of the highest GDPs in the world and double digit growth.

Armenia came out of the war as winners essentially because the population there was coming out of the Soviet Union very excited about its future, thus had the incentive/spirit to fight, and because Russia more-or-less decided it will use Armenia as a leverage against Turks in the Caucasus. Regarding the growing economy: It's because of Russia. It's because the Armenian authorities are willing to sell everything to Russia, and Russians are willing to buy. It's that simple.

My "pessimism" is rooted in the collective ignorance of our people. Having an ignorant population in places like Britain, USA, Canada, German, etc, actually works in favor of the nations in question. Having an ignorant population in Armenia, on the other hand, can be fatal for Armenia. Yes, acknowledge nature of humanity at the same time realize that you must resort to harsh tactics to render that nature harmless.

You mention Armenia is landlocked and surrounded by xxxx nations, I agree, but that it's still amazing how much we have been able to accomplish with so much riding against us. Out of 4 borders we have 2 closed, and we still manage to pull off double digit growth, not to mention our northern neighbor is close to being a "failed state" and the one to the south has been the target of an impending attack for the last 3 years.

I agree. What Armenia has accomplished under dire circumstances has been remarkable. However, this "success" was a result of the Kocharyan/Sargsyan administration. You can't give this credit to anyone else. We criticize Kocharyan and Sargsyan to no end. But where is the objectivity here? Where is the balance? Nonetheless, this "success" is also related to Armenia's close relations with Russia. So, selling everything in Armenia to Russia has had a positive impact.

One looks at georgia and even with their 2 breakway republics they should still have as nice of a country as Armenia if not better but they are at least 5 years behind Armenia in development. In Armenia we do not have nearly as much fertile land as they do, for example one can spit almost anywhere in georgia and the next day something will grow there, however look at how little they have been able to do with such great land?

You are essentially speaking of the Russian factor here. If Georgia is a failed state it's because of Russia. If Armenia is surviving well considering the dire circumstances in the region - again, it's because of Russia. I bet you, once you topple the current authorities in Yerevan, the replacing government will ruin the fragile relations Armenia has with the Russian Federation.

Get this through your "nationalistic" heads: without the pro-Armenian Russian factor in the Caucasus, not even a million "azatamartikner" can save the Armenian Republic from doom.

Or azerbaijan with all its oil wealth, which the vast majority of people will not see and most of the money is ending up in swiss bank accounts, still can not really challenge us militarily, even with a near $2 billion budget.

Again, Russia. While Armenia may be a well kept well armed, happy "slave" of Russia - Azerbaijan is a willing 'hostage' of Russia. Besides, wealth trickles down to the general public very-very slowly. This has been the nature of civilizations throughout history. Take a close look at how and when the general public in the western world began to live a high standard of living.

You also mention the ignorance of the masses, what nation has a trully "illuminated" populace?

While in the West ignorance of the population is something we laugh about and ridicule, in Armenia this ignorance can be fatal to the state. We can't afford to be ignorant just because the rest of the world is. Our republic, a tiny, impoverished, landlocked nation, lives in the turmoil of the Caucasus and it is surrounded by historic enemies.

99% of people the world over are stupid, and governments like to keep it that way. Or the 80/20 rule in economics, 20% of people do 80% of the work. What we need is a highly motivied, ideologically driven, group of patriotic Armenians to really sustain our nation. All major revolutions have been carried out by highly movtivated groups with the drive and tenacity to succeed with their mission; only then can we try to educate the people and make the lives of all our countrymen better. Remember it is about the quality of the person and idea(s) not the quantity, which is often trash.

I agree. But the quantity of trash we have today is a serious cancer in the Armenian Republic because they, the trash, are being used against the state.

So in conclusion lets not be too pessimistic or too optimistic, balance is key as in all things, keeping a clear, cool, and emotionless head. I have faith in God and people like ourselves that Armenia will be guided in the right direction and will prosper.

Yes, let's place faith in God. Let's also pray that Moscow continues treating Armenia as a strategic partner, and let's pray that the Republican party in Armenia maintains its tight grip over the country. Armenia's situation is much more vulnerable/fragile than we are willing to admit.

And that in itself is a national security threat.

[Armenian]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Kneres aper, bayts do boot es? It was the authorities that was responsible for widespread social dissatisfaction, --This was the ARF's official line during the election campaign and remains so today. While dark forces attempted to exploit the peoples dissatisfaction, it was nevertheless the authorities that gave cause for mass dissatisfaction. If the people lived normal lives, no one could have made them rise up in protests. Do you not understand this much?

Kneres aper, bayts doo hastat boot es!

The ARF, as a true nationalist party, a responsible party, needed to better assess the political climate in Yerevan during the presidential elections. By not supporting the Republican party in Armenia today the ARF is in essence supporting the treasonous HHSh party. It's that simple. When the Republican party gets overthrown, it is the Levonakans that will replace them - no one else. Has party worship blinded you to this obvious fact?

So, is what the ARF doing "stupidity", "irresponsibility" or "treason"? I don't see any other explanation at this point.

A fledgling nation, tiny, landlocked, without natural wealth, surrounded by enemies, will take a very long time before it can securely stand on its feet. As a matter of fact, it will require Armenia several generations, and an inherently peaceful neighborhood, before it can stabilize and begin to prosper. Does this mean that in the meanwhile every asshole on the street in Armenia with an empty pocket should be allowed by the authorities to attempt a bloody coup d'etat every few years? Does this means that every idiot in the diaspora that wants Armenians to "live like westerners" be allowed to support an uprising in Armenia every few years?

Irrational, ignorant and narrow minded "nationalists" like you are the fundamental reason why I have lost hope in our abilities as a nation. I reluctantly understand when the masses act stupid. However, when members of a "nationalist" party, take for example the "War Hero" Sefilian, begins to act stupid that's when I say: let's give the house keys to Moscow and get it over with. There is no point in relying on Armenians to do what right for Armenia.

[Siamanto]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Ruben Hakobian, former Dashnak leader, criticizes current leadership, gets booted from party for criticizing government's actions after Feb. 19 election and calling for new elections. http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeni...6F7903CC3C.ASP

No, he got booted from the party because he broke basic party rules that state that you cannot publicly disagree with the official position of the ARFD.

Intolerance and "persecution" are acceptable as long as it's institutionalized??????? *wonders if article 301 rings a bell*

[Siamanto]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

This from an individual who previously blamed the editor of the Armenian Assembly of America's related publication, Armenia Now, for inciting the protests and subsequent destabilization.

The Armenian expression "Or@ nor, lour@ nor," becomes "Or@ nor, soud@ nor" when talking about the illiterate skinhead - aka "Armenian."
Is it to compensate for his ignorance????

[Siamanto]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

I have great sympathy and admiration for the ARF. I see the ARF party as the only organization worthy of representing Armenians in the diaspora.

Considering that during 70 years the A(rmenian) R(eactionary) F(orces) have spread false rumors against, terrorized, persecuted Armenian organizations and/or individuals who aimed at building bridges between the Diaspora and Armenia;
Considering their long and proven track record of criminal activities - at least, in the Diaspora - targetting other Armenians
Considering that, in some communities, far more was achieved as soon as they were "pushed back" and relegated to a secondary role;

I can only find amusing the skinhead's statement. Thank you for your jokes!!!!

[TomServo]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

ArmenianIf they don't like our government and our leaders then they should pack up and fuk off!

Everyone wants to leave. Even some government officials have left. Did you leave?

P.S. Mark my words: If they jeopardize the safety and the security of our State, or even should any of their actions cause a major political or socio-economic hardship to our country then THE PEOPLE will shut the door on Dashnaks and the ARF in Armenia and Artsakh will become history.

Isn't this what LTP did in the mid-90's? But that wasn't the people, I guess?

[HayotzAmrotz]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Everyone wants to leave. Even some government officials have left. Did you leave?

Whoever wants to leave can leave, including government officials. I don't care about those who want to leave because there is no mass exodus and therefore there is no danger. But I do care about those who want to come in, for example I want all of our 100 000 odd youngsters who left the country from 1992 onwards in order to avoid the army and/or the war to return home. The best news is that the vast majority of them would like to return. Now they can do that, legally and without any problems. Contact your nearest Armenian mission for more information.

BTW. Dashnaks showed a great deal of support for the legislation which allows our youngsters to return. And I did liked that.

And who are you Tommy boy?
Did you leave, or have you actually been to Armenia?

Isn't this what LTP did in the mid-90's? But that wasn't the people, I guess?

What LTP did was an unprovoked and vicious attack on an organization he personally hates. He got that hate with his mother's milk, his father was a Syrian communist who hated the ARF and they hated him too. Anyway, what LTP did and what I said are two completely different things. People not only have the power to create, they have also the power to destroy. People Power, young Thomas, should never be underestimated.

[TomServo]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Did you leave, or have you actually been to Armenia?

I've been to "the State" once, and nearly every person I talked to, every average Hovo, wanted to leave. And I wasn't born in the Armenian SSR, nor were my parents or theirs, so I never left... what about you?

People Power, young Thomas, should never be underestimated.

Something Serzh Sargsyan knows real well.

[HayotzAmrotz]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

And I wasn't born in the Armenian SSR, nor were my parents or theirs, so I never left... what about you?

I was born and bred in the Armenian SSR and so were my parents and their parents. Republic of Armenia is our country, we have never left it and we will never leave it.