Armenian Air Force and Air Defense

[yerazhishda]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

Kanki is a precious Turkish girl. Don't be too mean to her.

We should definitely begin a new thread on how to improve the Armenian economy because this is the Air Force thread, but in short, there are many options.

First off, Armenia suffers greatly from a brain drain. Many talented Armenians left the country for better jobs after the Soviet Union fell. 1-2million Armenians from the Armenian Republic have settled abroad or are in continuous migration to send money back to their families. What we need to do is strengthen the school system and its ties to Western and Russian institutions. Armenians who have bachelors degrees in the West should be encouraged to go back to Armenia. Sure there are not many jobs, but if you could land one, there is no reason why you should not take it.

Secondly, the Armenian state should fund programs that make Armenia fully capable of producing its food and water supply. The State should take measures in building special factories that could produce small scale transportation and farming equipment and subsidize farms throughout the country. The State should also fund the construction of hundreds of man-made lakes that double as reservoirs and rain catchers to serve for future use in farming, drinking, recreation, and to create micro-biomes that will help regrow the forests.

Thirdly, Armenia should be fully independent when it comes to small and medium arms design, development, and production. Basically, we should focus on equipment for the individual soldier and basic artillery and then let Russian expertise fill in the need for heavier equipment.

Fourthly, Armenia should dedicate more spending on being energy sufficient by developing more hydroelectric, solar, and wind power stations. Technology could be bought from the outside and used to produce wind plants in Armenia to be used in Armenia or sold to other countries.

With no concern for food, electricity, defense and the constant source of an intelligent population, I see no reason why Armenia can not reach the standard of living that Baltic Republics have by 2020.

RUN FOR PRESIDENT!!!

[Ari]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

i guess its hard to have a proper force where there is no where to really move around, everything is blocked


saw this documentary about the karabagh war and they showed how well our barracks were made, everything was perfect, then the bbc reporter went to the other side and it was in shambles

brains will win a war if something happens not jets

[Hellektor]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

Sevres accepted by Ottoman Empire, We get rid of Ottoman monarchy and gained our independence again from Britain,France, Italy and Greece. They were defeated and had to accept new threaty " Lausanne "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lausanne

Also Ottoman Armenian population had never more than Turkish population.

If we use Wilson principles, we can get many parts of Georgia (Like Batum city)

I am not going to explain everything for the nth time, you can check this post where I have addressed this issue. The “Sevres accepted by Ottoman Empire” crap sounds exactly like “Armenians were 'deported' by Ottomans, today's Turkey has no responsibility” which is utter nonsense.

There was a change of government, not of state. Three consecutive governments: Abdulhamid, Young Turks and Kemal, all took part in the extermination of Armenians and today's Turkey is very much a pan-Turkist state. The proof its unconditional support of fake “Azerbaijan”, itself a pan-Turkist fabricated nonentity to stop Armenia from being established on territory that was not under Ottoman occupation.

But back to Sèvres and Lausanne: when we talk about the Wilson arbitration, we mean the arbitral decision of Woodrow Wilson awarded to him by all the signatories of the treaty of Sèvres, between the victorious nations including Armenia and the losers Turkey. The articles 89 and 90 of the treaty of Sèvres make it clear that the Arbitral Award has nothing to do with the ratification of Sèvres and is in power from the very moment Wilson signed his report regarding the delineation of the border between Turkey and Armenia. That happend on 22, November 1920 and from that precise day on “Turkey ... renounces as from the date of such decision all rights and title over the territory so transferred.” (from Article 90). Therefore, Turkey is illegally occupying Armenian territory already for 88 years, for which they’ll have to pay all the taxes and damages when this territory is transferred to Armenia, its rightful owner legally, historically and morally.

Regarding Lausanne: contrary to what most Armenians wrongly believe it is a very pro-Armenian treaty indeed if you take your time to read it. Here some facts:

I. There is no mention of Sèvres in the text of Lausanne, i.e. nowhere it is mentioned that Lausanne renders the treaty of Sèvres invalid. They couldn't either, because according to international law, all and only all the signatories of a treaty are eligible to sign a treaty, rendering a previous one void.

The signatories of Sèvres:

THE BRITISH EMPIRE, FRANCE, ITALY AND JAPAN,
...ARMENIA, BELGIUM, GREECE, THE HEDJAZ, POLAND, PORTUGAL, ROUMANIA, THE SERB-CROAT-SLOVENE STATE AND CZECHO-SLOVAKIA,
...of the one part;
...AND TURKEY,
of the other part;

The signatories of Lausanne:

THE BRITISH EMPIRE, FRANCE, ITALY, JAPAN, GREECE, ROUMANIA and the SERB-CROAT-SLOVENE STATE,
of the one part,
and TURKEY,
of the other part;

II. The treaty of Lausanne deals with the borders of Turkey with Bulgaria and Greece and there is not a single mention of borders with Soviet Armenia or the Soviet Union in general. This means it recognizes the borders drawn by another treaty and the only internationally legal document regarding that with Armenia is the Wilson arbitration.

III. In the next post I will copy/paste the articles 37 through 45 of the Lausanne treaty (SECTION III. PROTECTION OF MINORITIES) where you see how beneficial to Armenians, among other “minorities” of Turkey, this treaty actually is and to what extent Turkey's savage behavior in destroying Armenian monuments (among other monstrosities committed against “minorities”, since 1923) is in breach of this same Lausanne treaty you Turks shove in our faces every time we demand justice.

IV. While the drawing of the border between Turkey and Armenia was awarded by the signatories of Sèvres to the president of the United States of America, making the States an integral part of the treaty of Sèvres, the good old US of A has to this very day (August 2008) refused to recognize the Lausanne treaty, mainly because Turkey has not fulfilled its obligations regarding the Armenian border.

From “Democratic Party Platform of 1924” Search for Lausanne Treaty:

“We condemn the Lausanne treaty. It barters legitimate American rights and betrays Armenia, for the Chester oil concessions. We favor the protection of American rights in Turkey and the fulfillment of President Wilson's arbitral award respecting Armenia.”

This means the USA does not recognize Turkey, its N°1 ally in the so-called Middle East (Israel is another story as we all know).

To emphasize once more: it is not about the treaty of Sèvres itself, it is the Wilson arbitral award which according to international law is final and cannot be revoked at all, not by Lausanne, nor any treaty ever, even if Armenia wanted it. In fact it is “bad” for Armenians because we cannot get Kharbert, the rest of Van and Baghesh, Sebastia, Caesarea and Cilicia back, until the Turkish state is reduced to rubble.

Click on the map for a larger version.

Regarding Batum: there’s no mention in Sèvres of Batum going to Turkey. On the contrary, in ARTICLE 351, there’s only talk of “Free access to the Black Sea by the port of Batum ...to Georgia, Azerbaijan and Persia, as well as to Armenia”. You must have “mixed up” Sèvres with Brest-Litovsk, a treaty that was abandoned, among other things because Turkey behaved in breach of it, constantly violating the stipulations of the treaty.

[Hellektor]

SECTION III of Lausanne Treaty (addendum to my previous post)

From TREATY OF PEACE WITH TURKEY SIGNED AT LAUSANNE

JULY 24, 1923

Known as the Treaty of Lausanne

SECTION III. PROTECTION OF MINORITIES.

ARTICLE 37.
Turkey undertakes that the stipulations contained in Articles 38 to 44 shall be recognised as fundamental laws, and that no law, no regulation, nor official action shall conflict or interfere with these
stipulations, nor shall any law, regulation, nor official action prevail over them.

ARTICLE 38.
The Turkish Government undertakes to assure full and complete protection of life and liberty to all inhabitants of Turkey without distinction of birth, nationality, language, race or religion.
All inhabitants of Turkey shall be entitled to free exercise, whether in public or private, of any creed, religion or belief, the observance of which shall not be incompatible with public order and good morals.
Non-Moslem minorities will enjoy full freedom of movement and of emigration, subject to the measures applied, on the whole or on part of the territory, to all Turkish nationals, and which may be taken by the Turkish Government for national defence, or for the maintenance of public order.

ARTICLE 39.
Turkish nationals belonging to non-Moslem minorities will enjoy the same civil and political rights as Moslems.
All the inhabitants of Turkey, without distinction of religion, shall be equal before the law.
Differences of religion, creed or confession shall not prejudice any Turkish national in matters relating to the enjoyment of civil or political rights, as, for instance, admission to public employments, functions and honours, or the exercise of professions and industries.
No restrictions shall be imposed on the free use by any Turkish national of any language in private intercourse, in commerce, religion, in the press, or in publications of any kind or at public meetings.
Notwithstanding the existence of the official language, adequate facilities shall be given to Turkish nationals of non-Turkish speech for the oral use of their own language before the Courts.

ARTICLE 40.
Turkish nationals belonging to non-Moslem minorities shall enjoy the same treatment and security in law and in fact as other Turkish nationals. In particular, they shall have an equal right to establish, manage and control at their own expense, any charitable, religious and social institutions, any schools and other establishments for instruction and education, with the right to use their own language and to exercise their own religion freely therein.

ARTICLE 41.
As regards public instruction, the Turkish Government will grant in those towns and districts, where a considerable proportion of non-Moslem nationals are resident, adequate facilities for ensuring that in the primary schools the instruction shall be given to the children of such Turkish nationals through the medium of their own language. This provision will not prevent the Turkish Government from making the teaching of the Turkish language obligatory in the said schools.
In towns and districts where there is a considerable proportion of Turkish nationals belonging to non-Moslem minorities, these minorities shall be assured an equitable share in the enjoyment and application of the sums which may be provided out of public funds under the State, municipal or other budgets for educational, religious, or charitable purposes.
The sums in question shall be paid to the qualified representatives of the establishments and institutions concerned.

ARTICLE 42.
The Turkish Government undertakes to take, as regards non-Moslem minorities, in so far as concerns their family law or personal status, measures permitting the settlement of these questions in accordance with the customs of those minorities.
These measures will be elaborated by special Commissions composed of representatives of the Turkish Government and of representatives of each of the minorities concerned in equal number. In case of divergence, the Turkish Government and the Council of the League of Nations will appoint in agreement an umpire chosen from amongst European lawyers.
The Turkish Government undertakes to grant full protection to the churches, synagogues, cemeteries, and other religious establishments of the above-mentioned minorities. All facilities and authorisation will be granted to the pious foundations, and to the religious and charitable institutions of the said minorities at present existing in Turkey, and the Turkish Government will not refuse, for the formation of new religious and charitable institu-tions, any of the necessary facilities which are guaranteed to other private institutions of that nature.

ARTICLE 43.
Turkish nationals belonging to non-Moslem minorities shall not be compelled to perform any act which constitutes a violation of their faith or religious observances, and shall not be placed under any disability by reason of their refusal to attend Courts of Law or to perform any legal business on their weekly day of rest.
This provision, however, shall not exempt such Turkish nationals from such obligations as shall be imposed upon all other Turkish nationals for the preservation of public order.

ARTICLE 44.
Turkey agrees that, in so far as the preceding Articles of this Section affect non-Moslem nationals of Turkey, these provisions constitute obligations of international concern and shall be placed under the guarantee of the League of Nations. They shall not be modified without the assent of the majority of the Council of the League of Nations. The British Empire, France, Italy and Japan hereby agree not to withhold their assent to any modification in these Articles which is in due form assented to by a majority of the Council of the League of Nations.

Turkey agrees that any Member of the Council of the League of Nations shall have the right to bring to the attention of the Council any infraction or danger of infraction of any of these obligations, and that the Council may thereupon take such action and give such directions as it may deem proper and effective in the circumstances.
Turkey further agrees that any difference of opinion as to questions of law or of fact arising out of these Articles between the Turkish Government and any one of the other Signatory Powers or any other Power, a member of the Council of the League of Nations, shall be held to be a dispute of an international character under Article 14 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. The Turkish Government hereby consents that any such dispute shall, if the other party thereto demands, be referred to the Permanent Court of International Justice. The decision of the Permanent Court shall be final and shall have the same force and effect as an award under Article 13 of the Covenant.

ARTICLE 45.
The rights conferred by the provisions of the present Section on the non-Moslem minorities of Turkey will be similarly conferred by Greece on the Moslem minority in her territory.

[Hellektor]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

I apologize that the thread has gone off topic. I had to respond to the false convictions of Kanki.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

I apologize that the thread has gone off topic. I had to respond to the false convictions of Kanki.

No apology enker. A sound kick in the @ss to a turk is always welcome!

[RSNATION]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

i guess its hard to have a proper force where there is no where to really move around, everything is blocked


saw this documentary about the karabagh war and they showed how well our barracks were made, everything was perfect, then the bbc reporter went to the other side and it was in shambles

brains will win a war if something happens not jets

Do you have a link to the documentary?

[Kanki]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

aaahahaha don't look at the avatar, some 52 year old guys love to look like 'precious' teenage girls on the internet.

Really ?

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

The key is IT developpment folks.

[ara87]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

You should improve eco-tourism . . .

And I am sure my govenment will open border in next 5 years.

i agree, especially with the whole Russia vs Georgia conflict, i think turkey and Azerbaijan are wishing that the pipeline went through Armenia, b/c if Russia were to bomb it that would be disastrous, and there are supposed to be plans for new pipe lines if i'm not mistaken. But overall if the borders were open it would help trade between Turkey and Azerbaijan too, because goods wouldn't have to be shipped around Armenia via Georgia or Iran.