Armenian Air Force and Air Defense

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

i agree, especially with the whole Russia vs Georgia conflict, i think turkey and Azerbaijan are wishing that the pipeline went through Armenia, b/c if Russia were to bomb it that would be disastrous, and there are supposed to be plans for new pipe lines if i'm not mistaken. But overall if the borders were open it would help trade between Turkey and Azerbaijan too, because goods wouldn't have to be shipped around Armenia via Georgia or Iran.

Open borders with Azerbaijan is an impossibility. That border will remain permanently shut because Artsakh will be in Armenia (or independent) permanently.

[RSNATION]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

Not sure if you guys have seen this very god article on the air-war over Artsakh:

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_280.shtml

[ara87]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

Open borders with Azerbaijan is an impossibility. That border will remain permanently shut because Artsakh will be in Armenia (or independent) permanently.

Well i never said tomorrow. Maybe in like 15 years.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

Well i never said tomorrow. Maybe in like 15 years.

No, never. You missed my point that it will NEVER open as long as Baku does not control Artsakh or that by some miracle Baku has a change of heart. A third option would be if we enter Baku with tanks and force them to sign stuff.

Maybe you are ready to give up Artsakh in 15 years?

[ara87]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

And Panturkism already died

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q2f7QolgOQ (video is in turkish, but read the more info)

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

Our already weak air force took another bad turn today with an accidental crash of a Mi-24 helicopter during training which killed captain Arshak Nersissian



Source (in French): http://www.armenews.com/article.php3?id_article=46278

[SoyElTurco]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

Because it's expensive and we won't be able to match the one Azeris have so we concentrate on strenghening our air defense which is the best in the Caucasus.

realistically, it would be impossible and useless for Armenia to pursue an Air Force. Singapore has a population of 5 million, that is 2 million more than Armenia and a fully developed economy. With its weatlh, it has only about 80 F16's and a substantial amount of them are leased.

The Turkish Air Force has over 200 F-16's. Adequate for its needs of bombing the PKK and muscling Greece.

These things are expensive unless you have a real need for them. Its good what Armenia does, just let the Russian supply their air force for Armenia.

Assuming Armenia did have a fully developed economy, its GDP simply wouldn't be able to support it effectivly - if it went to war, it wouldn't be sustainable.

I agree that Armenia's strategy of just keeping up a good air defense is sufficient, efficient, and prudent. No need to waste your time and money on something that will only be half-baked.

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

We have the lion on the ground but time has come for our Eagle to claim its God given Airspace; I don’t care what it takes. This must be done.

I know Russians may not like it (frankly I don’t give a damn) but they will respect it. This will be a big blow to Azeris and a major intimidation factor against Turkey. This sends a message of seriousness of our self-determination and our sovereignty. This will also create a new civilian industry and many jobs if we could pull it off.

In today’s world if you can’t even control your own airspace you may not be taken seriously in certain dealings.

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenian Air Foce

Armenian Air Force will be in big trouble if Azerbaijan decides to attack. This comparison will show how disproportionate the differences are.

Azerbaijan:

Not covering the Transport and Utility category Aircraft, Azeris possess a multitude of Jet fighters, interceptors, and bombers backed by 15 Israeli UAV reconnaissance and observation Aircraft that can send real time data on Armenian positions back to their bases for evaluation and targeting.

Their arsenal contains close to 50 Mig-29 Multi role Fighters (upgraded recently and bought from Ukraine), over 20 Mig-21 Fighters, 26 Chinese JF-17 Fighters, 4 all weather bombers like SU- 17, 19 SU-24 Attack bomber Aircraft, and 30 SU- 25 close air support Fighters. They also have 50 Mil Mi-24 and 20 Mil Mi-28 attack helicopters.
They get extra help from US on modernization of their airfields (modernization of the Kurdamir airfield is being negotiated right now including unprecedented ‘Flight Control System’ in the region that has been installed in Dallar airdrome with support of the United States). The Russians are also helping their modernization including multitude of sophisticated ground to air defense systems.

As if that wasn’t enough since September, 2008, Turkey has participated in the project of beefing up their Central Command. According the agreement reached, central command management center will be installed in accordance with NATO standards. A great number of projects such as joint manufacture of Attack helicopters, unmanned aircraft and etc. will be implemented with Turkey in the near future.

Within the next five years they are looking at acquiring SU-27 and SU-30, as well as new generation Migs.


Armenia:

Lets see, 15 Su-25 attack jets and no more than 12 Mi-24 helicopters that are about 30 years old and many probably in questionable working condition. The Su-25 is a relatively slow, low flying aircraft that's meant to provide close air support to troops on the ground.

There are less than 20 Mig-29 fighter jets in Armenia depending on which source you look at and those are Russian fighter jets flown by Russians (3624th air wing) and the number is very small. Will Russians fight the air war for Armenia over Nagorno Karabakh? Most likely not. Russia will maintain impartiality in this conflict and be on good relations with Azerbaijan. Does natural gas going through Russia to customers in Europe ring any bells?

As for Russian Air Defense, it covers only the air space of Armenia proper; I see no indication of Russians protecting NKR Airspace. Moreover, Russians have roughly the same air defense system installed on the territory of Azerbaijan under a similar of agreement as Armenia. In case of a conflict with Azerbaijan, Russians in Armenia will at best prevent Azeris from flying over Armenia. However, Azeris will still have capability to strike anything in NKR almost with impunity even with our diverse range of anti aircraft surface to air missiles from the S-300 long range/high altitude SAM to the SA-16 Gimlet shoulder fired short range/low altitude SAM. We might eventually be successful in stopping them with these SAMs but a big price will be paid with life and property before that happens.

[Eddo211]

Armenia’s joint Air and Air Defense Force structure


Roundel


The Armenian Air Force (Հայաստանի Ռազմաօդային Ուժեր) was formed in 1992 in the wake of the dissolution of the USSR. It is streamlined to provide Armenian ground forces with Tactical Air support in the form of ground attack and airlift in mountainous terrain. Although Armenia began working to establish an independent Armenian Armed Forces as early as 1989, due to a lack of resources, suitably trained personnel and useful infrastructure the government could not create an Air Force until August 1992. As of now Armenia still does not possess any air superiority fighters and relies on the MIG-29s from the Russian Air Force to provide Air Defense under military corporation treaty. As of 2003 Armenian Government has been slowly providing more funds to grow and modernize its air fleet.

Little information has been made public about the Armenian Air Force’s organization. It is known that the Air Force operates within a joint Air and Air Defense Force structure, and in 2004 the Air Force comprised four functional units: the 121st Ground Attack Aviation Squadron based at Gyumri; 15th Mixed Aviation Regiment which is a composite helicopter squadron based at Yerevan; a VIP transport unit probably based at Yerevan; and the 60th Aviation Training Squadron a training center at Arzni.

As a result of a series of defense cooperation treaties beginning with the CIS 1992 “Tashkent”, Collective Security Treaty (CST) treaty which was expanded into the CSTO in 2002, and the Russian-Armenian treaty of Friendship. Armenian and Russian air and air defense forces are closely integrated which is why it is so hard to get correct information. The 1997 friendship treaty provides for mutual assistance in the event of a military threat to either party - which goes further than the CSTO security pact - and also allows Russian border guards to patrol Armenia’s frontiers with Turkey and Iran. Armenia regularly participates in bilateral military exercises with forces from Russia’s GRVS and the Armenian Air Force also participates in the CSTO’s annual air defense exercises.

To help with its relative aviation military weaknesses compared to Azerbaijan and Turkey, on 16 March 1995 Armenia signed a treaty with Russia giving them a 25-year-long military presence in Armenia which authorized the establishment of Russian bases at Gyumri and Yerevan. Russian aviation forces in Armenia comprise 18 MiG-29 fighters of the 426th Fighter Squadron and the 700th Air Traffic Control Center, both at the 3624th Air Base at Erbuni Airport outside Yerevan. There are also speculation and rumors that there are MIG-23s there as well bringing the total to 30 aircraft. I have personally seen photos of these aircraft at the airbase but nobody seems to know if the MIG-29s were replacing them or they became an addition to what was already there. Also not known is the Armenian ownership of the MIG-23s which could be unlikely.


MIG-29 Erebuni


MIG-23 Erebuni

The Armenian Air Force experienced a major expansion and modernization in 2004-2005. It tripled its fixed-wing combat arm through the procurement of ten surplus Su-25 from Slovakia for a total of 1 million US$ in August 2004. These twenty-year-old aircraft which had not been flown for a decade and required work to re-certify their flightworthiness were delivered in September 2005. Also in 2004, Armenia received a pair of L-39C trainers from each of Russia and the Ukraine, as well as two Il-76 transports from Russia in May of same year.

In the summer of 1993, the Armenian Air Force had a personnel strength of 2000; this had grown to 3000 by 2004 and reported over 3500 active personnel as of now. Originally dependent on small numbers of returning experienced Armenian military personnel, reservists, conscripts, and contract foreign nationals, during 1993-1994 Armenia established its own military institutions from scratch, among which were its own aviation vocational institute at Yerevan and related training facilities. It remains reliant on conscripts, who serve for 24 months, but also employs volunteers on a contract basis with terms of 3-15 years.

Pilots and technical personnel begin their training at the Military Aviation Institute in Yerevan, which was established in 1993. Pilot candidates undertake a basic and primary flying training course which includes 80 hours on the YAK-52 and is followed by 60 hours of jet conversion and advanced training on the L-39. This training is conducted at the airbase at Arzni 18 miles northeast of Yerevan. The facility also operates a single YAK-55 Aerobatic trainer and three An-2 transports for drop training of paratroopers. A pair of Mi-2 helicopters are also kept available for training helicopter aircrews. Type conversion and advanced tactical training are conducted at operational units.


Col. Daniel Balayan, commander of the Military Aviation Institute, Yerevan, Armenia, Aug. 5, 2009. (Texas Military Forces photo by Tech. Sgt. Rene Castillo)

"Since the institute was established, it has continued smoothly," he said, noting that 99 percent of the pilots in Armenia are Armenian.”
"To train a person, you must know him," said Colonel Balayan. "You must train him psychologically as well as technically."




Armenian Air Force Fleet:


Fix-Wing:

Interceptor:
MIG-25PD QT1 Interceptor fighter aircraft

Close Air Support:
SU-25 QT5 Basic Version
SU-25K QT9 Commercial Export variant built in Tbilisi factory 31
SU-25UBK QT1 Combat trainer

Advanced Jet Trainer:
L-39C QT6 Some have been fitted with Machine Gun Pods

Transport:
Ilyushin Il-76 QT2 Strategic airlifter


Rotor-Wing:

Attack Helicopter:
Mil Mi-24K QT6 Army reconnaissance
Mil Mi-24P QT8 Gunship version,12.7-mm machine-gun with a fixed side-mounted 30-mm GSh-30K twin-barrel cannon.
Mil Mi-24R QT2 Radiation Recon

Transport and Utility:
Mil Mi-8T QT11 Unguided rocket pods with S-5 rockets, four weapons pylons on two sub-wings, PK machine gun.
Mil MI-8MT QT7 Flying crane version
Mil Mi-9s QT1 Airborne command post

Trainer:
Mil Mi-2 QT1 Light utility

Note: actual battle ready aircraft maybe little less than above numbers. Condition of other aircrafts such as YAK-40, SU-17 unknown.



To be continued………