Armenian Language Reforms (?)

[ara87]

I was reading about the Turkish language reform that took place in the '30's in Turkey to remove loan words from, Persian, Arabic, French, Greek, Italian, etc, and replace them with newly made words derived from Turkish roots and older Turkish words which had fallen out of use over the centuries. The older generations still mainly use the loan words however the people born post 1940's use the Turkish ones. Some words have failed, and the old loan word has returned, and other new words have taken on new meanings so they cannot be used for their original intentions, however the reform was mostly successful and removed several hundred loan words.

I know, that this would be hard to do with armenian, as there's 3 million of us in Armenia, and 5 million everywhere else, however i still think it would be a good idea, and to follow it's example. Reforms could start in Armenia, and new dictionaries and curriculum can be passed through the dioceses to the armenian school. Russian, Arabic, Persian, etc words can be removed and be replaced with armenian ones, bringing the different armenian dialects closer together. I realize that our generation wouldn't really grasp it, however i think the following ones will, just like the Turks that were born after the reforms did.

Do you think this is good idea? Why or why not?

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian Language Reforms (?)

I was reading about the Turkish language reform that took place in the '30's in Turkey to remove loan words from, Persian, Arabic, French, Greek, Italian, etc, and replace them with newly made words derived from Turkish roots and older Turkish words which had fallen out of use over the centuries. The older generations still mainly use the loan words however the people born post 1940's use the Turkish ones. Some words have failed, and the old loan word has returned, and other new words have taken on new meanings so they cannot be used for their original intentions, however the reform was mostly successful and removed several hundred loan words.

I know, that this would be hard to do with armenian, as there's 3 million of us in Armenia, and 5 million everywhere else, however i still think it would be a good idea, and to follow it's example. Reforms could start in Armenia, and new dictionaries and curriculum can be passed through the dioceses to the armenian school. Russian, Arabic, Persian, etc words can be removed and be replaced with armenian ones, bringing the different armenian dialects closer together. I realize that our generation wouldn't really grasp it, however i think the following ones will, just like the Turks that were born after the reforms did.

Do you think this is good idea? Why or why not?

They have done a "reform" and still their language sounds like a cacophony of Persian and Arabic?? LOL, I wonder what it was like before the "reform"...

First of all, it is pointless and silly to compare a beautifully elaborate language such as Armenian with Turkish whether it's the vocabulary- the amount of loan words- or the grammar, not to mention the literature.

Second of all, it is silly to consider Turkish- a not so elaborate language- as a model or example that Armenian as a language should follow.

Third of all, what you call loan words exist in all languages to a degree and Armenian is not an exception. We have loan words on different levels. Some can easily be replaced by Armenian words while others cannot. The majority of our "loan words"/ vocabulary come from the (ancient) Persian, Pahlavi and I must say they are beautiful. Not so many people can point to existing Persian words in Armenian. I see no need to change them, they have become an integral part of our language, they stem from our ancient culture, and they are a witness to our long history. The same would apply to some Latin or Greek derived words. What I would suggest is to wipe out/ cleanse the language from certain Russian words and expressions used commonly in Armenia while we have simple Armenian words for them; you may hear words such as kukhni, trutsik, multik, marojni, afto,etc. These are just simple words for which we obviously have equivalents in Armenian while some people make NO effort to use them. This cannot be tolerated.

Concerning the soviet orthography in use in Armenia currently, yes I am all for change. It should return to its original, unique Mesropian version, being used outside of Armenia, by the Western Armenians and Iranian Armenians.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Armenian Language Reforms (?)

.

Third of all, what you call loan words exist in all languages to a degree and Armenian is not an exception. We have loan words on different levels. Some can easily be replaced by Armenian words while others cannot. The majority of our "loan words"/ vocabulary come from the (ancient) Persian, Pahlavi and I must say they are beautiful. Not so many people can point to existing Persian words in Armenian. I see no need to change them, they have become an integral part of our language, they stem from our ancient culture, and they are a witness to our long history. The same would apply to some Latin or Greek derived words. What I would suggest is to wipe out/ cleanse the language from certain Russian words and expressions used commonly in Armenia while we have simple Armenian words for them; you may hear words such as kukhni, trutsik, multik, marojni, afto,etc. These are just simple words for which we obviously have equivalents in Armenian while some people make NO effort to use them. This cannot be tolerated.

I can only think of one: hazar (thousand) and there's even a Dari-speaking tribe in Afghanistan who's name is Hazara. But then again, I don't know Persian.

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian Language Reforms (?)

I can only think of one: hazar (thousand) and there's even a Dari-speaking tribe in Afghanistan who's name is Hazara. But then again, I don't know Persian.

Actually a large percentage of the Armenian vocabulary is ancient Persian in origin. Ancient Persian loan words that readily come to mind are պատուհան (window), հրեշտակ (angel), վեհ (noble), կարմիր (red), դանակ (knife), զրահ (armor). Actually, Armenians use ancient Persian words more that the modern Persians themselves. I'm sure you know why this is. Before Armenia's adoption of Christianity and before the Persian submission to Islam, Armenia and Persian were very close (physically and culturally) for about a thousand years. While Persian culture changed greatly due to Islam and the consequences of being a vast empire, Armenia stayed more-or-less isolated and unchanged. Nonetheless, most of Armenia's greatest ancient figures like Tigran the Great and Saint Gregory were of Persian decent. Also, many (if not most) Armenian proper names are also derived from Persian. Tigran, Vazgen, Artashez, Vahram, Gurgen, Khosrov, Artak, Artavazd, Zareh, Sebuh, Suren, etc... Ancient Persians are our closest kin.

I was reading about the Turkish language reform that took place in the '30's in Turkey to remove loan words from, Persian, Arabic, French, Greek, Italian, etc, and replace them with newly made words derived from Turkish roots and older Turkish words which had fallen out of use over the centuries. The older generations still mainly use the loan words however the people born post 1940's use the Turkish ones. Some words have failed, and the old loan word has returned, and other new words have taken on new meanings so they cannot be used for their original intentions, however the reform was mostly successful and removed several hundred loan words. I know, that this would be hard to do with armenian, as there's 3 million of us in Armenia, and 5 million everywhere else, however i still think it would be a good idea, and to follow it's example. Reforms could start in Armenia, and new dictionaries and curriculum can be passed through the dioceses to the armenian school. Russian, Arabic, Persian, etc words can be removed and be replaced with armenian ones, bringing the different armenian dialects closer together. I realize that our generation wouldn't really grasp it, however i think the following ones will, just like the Turks that were born after the reforms did. Do you think this is good idea? Why or why not?

What the hell are you talking about? What a silly statement. A vast majority of the Turkish vocabulary is European, Persian and Arabic. Very little in the Turkish lexicon is actually of Turkish origin. Literary Armenian, not the street jargon, has borrowed very little foreign words since the fourth/fifth century AD. Most of the few borrowed foreign words have to do with technology.

[ara87]

Re: Armenian Language Reforms (?)

They have done a "reform" and still their language sounds like a cacophony of Persian and Arabic?? LOL, I wonder what it was like before the "reform"...

First of all, it is pointless and silly to compare a beautifully elaborate language such as Armenian with Turkish whether it's the vocabulary- the amount of loan words- or the grammar, not to mention the literature.

Second of all, it is silly to consider Turkish- a not so elaborate language- as a model or example that Armenian as a language should follow.

First of all, don't discredit the argument just b/c the example is Turkish, that's immature.

Secondly, i don't mean to replace every single loan word, while Turkish still may have many Persian and Arabic words, they got rid of many, and manged to get rid of loan words that came later from other languages. What I'm suggesting is that we take a similar approach to words from Russian, Turkish, Farsi, Arabic,etc, but for words lets say that have only been in Armenian from the past few centuries or less, especially this past century. It's already been done before to get rid of "muslim" words in Armenian, so i think it can be done again

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian Language Reforms (?)

First of all, don't discredit the argument just b/c the example is Turkish, that's immature. Secondly, i don't mean to replace every single loan word, while Turkish still may have many Persian and Arabic words, they got rid of many, and manged to get rid of loan words that came later from other languages. What I'm suggesting is that we take a similar approach to words from Russian, Turkish, Farsi, Arabic,etc, but for words lets say that have only been in Armenian from the past few centuries or less, especially this past century. It's already been done before to get rid of "muslim" words in Armenian, so i think it can be done again

What are you talking about? What Russian words? What Muslim words? How old are you?

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Language Reforms (?)

I've noticed that in Armenia they Armenianize certain odar words even though we have the Armenian version! What is up with that?

For example, the word "communist". In Armenia, the word for "communist" is կոմունիստ (comounist)...WHY? We have the Armenian word, it's համայնավար (hamaynavar).
Another example - the planets in the Solar System... all of them have been given foreign names even though we already have all of the planet's names in Armenian. Mars is Հրատ (Hrat) and not Մարս (Mars) etc.
Another example: the word "Internet". The Armenian word for it is համացանց (hamatsants) and not ինտերնետ (internet). While hamatsants is being used more and more, you can still see by a simple Google search of the two words that ինտերնետ gets 300 000+ hits and համացանց gets 20 000+ hits.

These need to be gradually changed for the newer generations. Also, inventing new words for all the latest technology being invented so that we don't loan words from others (if this hasn't been done already).

EDIT: Another funny word that just came to find... the word "parliament". Can you believe that in Armenia, the word for this is պառլամենտ (parlament)? What happened to խորհրդարան (khorhrdaran)?

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian Language Reforms (?)

First of all, don't discredit the argument just b/c the example is Turkish, that's immature.

Were you hurt? I'm sorry.

Turkish is a not so elaborate, cacophonic and more importantly a poor language with various shortcomings on different levels that cannot serve as an example not only to Armenian but to many other languages as well. Maybe you should change your example so your argument is not discredited as easily.

Secondly, i don't mean to replace every single loan word, while Turkish still may have many Persian and Arabic words, they got rid of many, and manged to get rid of loan words that came later from other languages. What I'm suggesting is that we take a similar approach to words from Russian, Turkish, Farsi, Arabic,etc, but for words lets say that have only been in Armenian from the past few centuries or less, especially this past century. It's already been done before to get rid of "muslim" words in Armenian, so i think it can be done again

A similar approach cannot be taken because Armenian language is in nowhere close to Turkish, whether it's about the loan words or the vocabulary or...

Please re-read my post, an overwhelming majority of loan words in Armenian language are from Farsi that are an integral part of our language, culture and history and should absolutely not be replaced by anything, in my opinion. As for Russian loan words, I have already talked about it.

What is "muslim" words by the way? "Muslim" is not a language.

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian Language Reforms (?)

I've noticed that in Armenia they Armenianize certain odar words even though we have the Armenian version! What is up with that?

Like I already mentioned, these foreign words exist mainly in the country's vernacular, they are not officially recognized as Armenian. Of the more annoying borrowed words I often hear in Armenia is "meeting" (ժողով/հանդիպում), "sportsman" (մարզիկ) and "team" (խումբ).

EDIT: Another funny word that just came to find... the word "parliament". Can you believe that in Armenia, the word for this is պառլամենտ (parlament)? What happened to խորհրդարան (khorhrdaran)

The word for parliament in Armenia is խորհրդարան, not պառլամենտ. Like I said, street language, in any nation, is quite different from the proper/literary language.

As for Russian loan words, I have already talked about it.

Lucin jan, what Russian words are we talking about? There aren't any Russian words in proper Armenian. As a matter of fact, you would be happy to know that Armenia today has borrowed more English words than Russian.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian Language Reforms (?)

Like I already mentioned, these foreign words exist mainly in the country's vernacular, they are not officially recognized as Armenian. Of the more annoying borrowed words I often hear in Armenia is "meeting" (ժողով/հանդիպում), "sportsman" (մարզիկ) and "team" (խումբ).



The word for parliament in Armenia is խորհրդարան, not պառլամենտ. Like I said, street language, in any nation, is quite different from the proper/literary language.

You know what is more annoying is the accent; պառլամենտ/ պռոբլէմ/ կոկա կոլա

In any case, it cannot be tolerated since there are beautiful Armenian words for them.