If you had to choose between Christianity and being Armenian.

[SoyElTurco]

Re: If you had to choose between Christianity and being Armenian.

reading the header if you had ...
again I was born in a family belonging to the armenian apostolic church, and raised such as. I read the Bible several times and frankly speaking the stories narrated there are a little bit childish because they can't stand any logical criticisim or analysis, a person must have a blind and absolute faith to beleive in the stories-I repeat the physical stories-, but on the other side the ideas, the philosophical concepts are universal and if applied will reach the mankind to it's perfection.

obviouslly you could tell i believe God is real. i do however share the same concerns. According to us, the Qu'ran is continuation of the message. But the question is, could any semi-intelligent person believe in such stories.

I think the question does not lay in the authenticity or believabilty of such stories. The theory of any religion entails submission. According to the theory of submission, one would have to surrender, suspend and reside all of their intelligence, ego and pride simply to submit to an ideal, and my ideal is God. Take for example, if God himself came and told you that 1+1=3 and the mathematical, scientific and physical truth is 2, then what would you pick in order to fulfill your duty of submission?

This theory can be applied to abuse, in other words, you can manipulate the masses of the people. But what if the overall system was designed for the benefit of the people? What if, you just make a small sacrifice in pride and intelligence, invest all you trust into a system, and the system will deliver its promise? And what if that's all the system needs - just a small sacrifice as such? It does seem like a self-fulfilling prophecy that the system you choose to believe in will be successful if you simply choose to believe it - but what if that's the point?

A lot of difference are arguable and there are valid points on the pro and anti relgionists sides. But I really find that at the end of the day, my religion is what works best for me.

This consumerisitc hedonism that was a product of Europe's self-procalimed bastard enlightenment teaches nothing but self worship - Satanism. I hate worshipping myself.

[Armanen]

Re: If you had to choose between Christianity and being Armenian.

obviouslly you could tell i believe God is real. i do however share the same concerns. According to us, the Qu'ran is continuation of the message. But the question is, could any semi-intelligent person believe in such stories.

I think the question does not lay in the authenticity or believabilty of such stories. The theory of any religion entails submission. According to the theory of submission, one would have to surrender, suspend and reside all of their intelligence, ego and pride simply to submit to an ideal, and my ideal is God. Take for example, if God himseld came and told you that 1+1=3 and the mathematical, scientific and physical truth is 2, then what would you pick in order to fulfill your duty of submission?

This theory can be applied to abuse, in other words, you can manipulate the masses of the people. But what if the overall system was designed for the benefit of the people? What if, you just make a small sacrifice in pride and intelligence, invest all you trust into a system, and the system will deliver its promise? And what if that's all the system needs - just a small sacrifice as such? It does seem like a self-fulfilling prophecy that the system you choose to believe in will be successful if you simply choose to believe it - but what if that's the point?

A lot of difference are arguable and there are valid points on the pro and anti relgionists sides. But I really find that at the end of the day, my religion is what works best for me.

This consumerisitc hedonism that was a product of Europe's self-procalimed bastard enlightenment teaches nothing but self worship - Satanism. I hate worshipping myself.

I actually agree with you.

[truAnatolian]

Re: If you had to choose between Christianity and being Armenian.

. in what concerns paganism this was the religion which preceeded christianity in Armenia and was mostly inspired from the nature and it's forces, so they prayed to and for his tree, river, fire, sun, forests, etc and also before the paganism there were other prereligions with human sacrifices and all the stuff. so religions come and disappear as the level of civilisations change, I mean intellectually, politically, socially

There was also zoroasterianism shared with the Persians, and Hellenistic religions shared with the greeks. See statues of Mt.Nemrut, built by the armenian king of Commagene and depicting figures of hellinistic idols including Apollo.

There is still some practice of pagan rituals today in Armenian. See "Vartavar"

[vasbourakan1]

Re: If you had to choose between Christianity and being Armenian.

concerning zooroasterianism, the old testimony of the bible narrates several facts as belonging to the xxxish people, but in fact they appear with very small differences in the early assyrian religions. concerning pagan uses, apart the vartavar festivities, you can also mention the blessing of bread, grapes, water, the distribution of madaghs (I can not find it's equivalent) on a given holiday, etc, and also the preparation and use of the muron itself is 100 pct pagan since this was not created by the christians (refer to the three wise men gifts in the cavern)

[Shaumian]

Re: If you had to choose between Christianity and being Armenian.

The significance of Christianity in the Armenian nation should not be overstated. Remember that Armenians existed for hundreds of years before they converted to Christianity. When religious influence in 20th century Armenia underwent a sharp decline, national identity did not weaken but became stronger. If anything, Christianity serves to undermine national identity.

[Armanen]

Re: If you had to choose between Christianity and being Armenian.

The significance of Christianity in the Armenian nation should not be overstated. Remember that Armenians existed for hundreds of years before they converted to Christianity. When religious influence in 20th century Armenia underwent a sharp decline, national identity did not weaken but became stronger. If anything, Christianity serves to undermine national identity.

Or it works hand in hand with national identity. If Armenia does become a true nationalist nation then I'd expect the Church to play an important role within the system.