Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black World

[Haykakan]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

Cat and Arman, i respectfully disagree with you gentlemen. I know for sure there was much assimilation of other peoples into the Armenian genepool and i stated that Azizian is persian not turckish but other names do have turckish roots. I think it is naive to say there is no assimilation of other people into our genepool and there never was. The existance of the non Armenian names is not just a literary thing, there were many persians, turcks, georgians, azeris, russians who inetrmarried with armenians and lived and live in armenia, this includes countless kurds and yezdis who did assimilate. The armenian diaspora certainly clings to its own heritage and its religion but the obvious fact that assimiulation happens can hardly be denied, this is also very true of the kurds and the yezdis and it has always been the case with everyone throughout history. While i am all for welcoming the diasporans to hayastan, i know that many if not most wouldnt move there even if they could find a decent job there and if a nonarmenian wants to come live in hayastan and be its contributing citizen then i would welcome such a person with open arms. By being inclusive we will have a much better society in Armenia, one that can appreciate more things from more angles and be stronger because of it.

[CRDA-France]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

As I said before, the debate is positionned on several different spaces :

- 1/ race
- 2/ sexuality (or lack of sexuality)
- 3/ sociological : 2a/ integration 2b/ assimilation
- 4/ (unspoken) psychology (personality, agressivity, guilt, etc.) http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2001/545/profile.htm
- 5/ psychic (Collective unconscious : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious )
- 6/ social (labor)
- 7/ economical
- 8/ political
- 9/ diplomatical
- 10/ cultural
-11a/ patriotism -11b/ nationalism - 11c/ racism
-12/ Armenia
-13/ Diaspora
with different environments :
-14/ (Old*) West Europe [* = according to former US State Department Minister, Rumsfeld . LOL ]
-15/ Russia
-16/ Turkey
-17/ Middle East
-18/ Africa
-19/ Asia
-20/ America, Canada, Australia, New Zeeland

What has been said formerly can be available with mixed marriages with Russians, French, English, Italians, (white) Americans, etc, etc. The debate should not be on race, but on how children are going to be raised, if Armenity is going to be transmitted, if the couple is going to participate with Armenian life, to encourage Armenian schools, etc, etc...

I happened to meet Armenian personnalities or officials during the soviet period. Some were married with Russian women. Some spouses encouraged Armenian life in their family, some did not at all. We know the phenomenen of assimilation, how many common or not common Europeans or Americans behave with Armenians : what effort do they do inordrer to foreward Armenian Culture in their families ?

This debate becomes an untold or openly racist debate if only we debate on inter racial level and we do not speak on mixed marriages. And do we speak or not for Armenia or for Diaspora ? Adding the fact that there are many families with both Armenian parents who do not do much to raise their children as Armenians.

Nil (Paris)

http://www.globalarmenianheritage-adic.fr/fr/4diaspora/4psychosociologie/4assimilation.htm

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

#1280

[Armanen]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

I think, it is you Haykakan, that is off the mark. As others pointed out Armenian is not a dominant culture like the anglo-american, French, Arabic, or Chinese to name a few. There just is not enough Armenians in the world. And as Catharsis pointed out just because an Armenian has a surname which has a non Armenian root does not mean they have non Armenian roots. Many joos have Germanic and Slavic surnames, does that mean they must have had some non jooish blood in them? Maybe, but it is not necessarily 100% at all.

It should be the priority of the Armenian government and leaders in the Diaspora to make Armenia a place where Diaspora Armenians can feel welcome to move to, prosper and most importantly, remain Armenian. All this talk of non Armenians moving to Armenia or if they are good to have seems absurd when we still have more Armenians living outside of the country than with in.

[Catharsis]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

You guys are way off the mark on this one and it is most probably because you havent been to Armenia much if at all. There are thousends of kurds and yezdis who have fully assimilated and are now more armenian then most of us in this forum. Also look at our history and many of our last names such as Azizian(obviously a persion origin), Melikian(turckish) and many others which obviously show that people from other countries have been assimilated into our own culture and nation. The dominant society and culture changes over time but even at its peak it does not hold a monopoly on assimulation. Plenty of people would prefer to be armenian if they new about what it is and are made to feel welcome by those who call ourselves armenians.

I don't know who you mean here by not being in Armenia. I can personally speak for myself, and I am there a good deal of the year and spend most of the time in the marzes. I actually visit Armenian and Yezidi villages (part of my work for a charity that funds needy families) so I know quite well the situation. It is Yezidis and not Armenians who are having most children being rural and traditional folk and they are far from having "assimilated." If they had, we would not be speaking about them as a separate group for starters. Great people the Yezidis, but they do not want to assimilate, nor as I said have assimilated (naturally). In fact, their leaders constantly point out that they are proud that they live in Armenia which is tolerant and lets them enjoy their cultural freedoms and preserves their identity. Although most Yezidis carry the yan/ian endings they have Yezidi derived (first and last) names and they are clinging to their heritage.

Same thing with the Kurds (if you consider Yezidis a non-Kurdish people, since they often identify themselves as distinct having their own "pagan" faith of the peaxxxx worship) - who have a very strong identity of their own.

The last names you noted (root Melik and Aziz) are not Turkic derived but are Perso-Arabic (Malak and Aziz), one means Lord/King (derived from the Arabic Malik) and the other means Esteemed. The last names do not speak of "assimilation" to the contrary, Armenians as all peoples have used loan words, which is the case here as well.

[Haykakan]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

You guys are way off the mark on this one and it is most probably because you havent been to Armenia much if at all. There are thousends of kurds and yezdis who have fully assimilated and are now more armenian then most of us in this forum. Also look at our history and many of our last names such as Azizian(obviously a persion origin), Melikian(turckish) and many others which obviously show that people from other countries have been assimilated into our own culture and nation. The dominant society and culture changes over time but even at its peak it does not hold a monopoly on assimulation. Plenty of people would prefer to be armenian if they new about what it is and are made to feel welcome by those who call ourselves armenians.

[Catharsis]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

Armenians don't even want to be Armenian.... Armenia isn't a dominant culture, if it were we wouldn't be losing so many Armenian raised to odars.

Indeed, and therein lies the problem. A good deal of Armenians are not even keeping our own culture in Armenia, much the less Diaspora. How do you expect others to embrace our culture and "become Armenians" when we ourselves are not preserving it and thus showing our disregard.

[Catharsis]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

Armenia has a long history and a very rich culture. Plenty of people would call themselves armenian if we armenians were more open and accepting of them. Many people have chosen to embrace the armenian culture without having armenian roots and many more would do the same if we didnt make them feel like "otars" as much. If you want to turn the tide of demographics in Armenia's favor then start being more accepting of others and most will do the same for you.

So you think the Turks and Kurds for instance that would come to Armenia would do this? Perhaps some (very few), but they have their own identities which they are proud of in their own right.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

Armenia has a long history and a very rich culture. Plenty of people would call themselves armenian if we armenians were more open and accepting of them. Many people have chosen to embrace the armenian culture without having armenian roots and many more would do the same if we didnt make them feel like "otars" as much. If you want to turn the tide of demographics in Armenia's favor then start being more accepting of others and most will do the same for you.

Armenians don't even want to be Armenian.... Armenia isn't a dominant culture, if it were we wouldn't be losing so many Armenian raised to odars.

[Haykakan]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

Armenia has a long history and a very rich culture. Plenty of people would call themselves armenian if we armenians were more open and accepting of them. Many people have chosen to embrace the armenian culture without having armenian roots and many more would do the same if we didnt make them feel like "otars" as much. If you want to turn the tide of demographics in Armenia's favor then start being more accepting of others and most will do the same for you.

[Catharsis]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

Unfortunately demographics are used by certain entities to their advantage against others. Armenians carry Armenian culture to different forms. If we take this logic of "open borders" then it would be ok to have a million or two Turks and Kurds come into what remains of Armenia. They will not assimilate because they have their own culture and ways, which they should maintain as we Armenians should maintain ours. The Turkish government thus, by using demographics (and they can spare half a million or million over time - lets say even a decade) will do what it was not unable to do via mass killings.