Iranians in Armenia

[Anoush]

Re: Iranians in Armenia

You so easily forget that Armenians were taken in by muslim countries after the genocide and given a chance not to just survive but prosper. Countries like Syria, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanan... are all majority muslim countries who took the survivors of the genocide and gave us a chance to rebuild and live. You are being very closed minded regarding muslims but i hope for your sake that you are young and still have time to learn vs prejudge.

Haykakan, although after the Genocide most Armenians that had to walk the death marches and miraculously survived the Genocide went into Arab soils; Syria, Lebanon, the Arab Emirates as well as Egypt; but we all lived in Arab countries as Armenians. We lived and breathed as Armenians. We took pride in our culture, went to our Gregorian Churches and practiced Christianity and we were very close knitted within ourselves. Went to our Armenian schools and graduated from them and basically we were not proud to be Arabs as we were to be Armenians. And that sustained us to stay as Armenians within our individual communities, mostly because we were proud to be Armenians. That's how we survived. But here and now we are being faced with a newer generation of Armenians that although they are in our homeland; but still they don't seem to be knowledgeable about their history and not that much ethical and proud of their anscestral rights, ways and culture, I'm afraid. Again, I am not saying the majority, but still, even if they are a quarter or the third of them. I know, Persia and Iran are our only good neighbours; and it's also good to do business with them; but I am not sure if the Iranian men flood our country and start taking advantage of our girls in the homeland. I just hope that they were proud and knowledgeable like the way we were brought up. I hope and wish that they know who they are and would stay in their place and intermarry with Armenians and have Armenian children. Because we as Armenians are very little already in population; we have to intermarry and multiply before we can mix ourselves up with whoever. Remember people that we are hardly a mere 8-10 million around the world. If we weren't annihilated, we would have been today at least 45-50 millions around the world. We have to intermarry and multiply first rather than mixing our very little blood with other blood. Remember that people.

[Armanen]

Re: Iranians in Armenia

All three religions gained popularity by freeing people from governments and/or slavery within their respective time periods and most of what people are told about those religions have little or no bearing on the history that created them. The problem with Judaism is that it has far surpassed the times when people were slaves in Egypt and has resulted in seeking dominance over everyone to ensure their enslavement never occurs again. Also, there is a difference between Orthodox Christianity and all the other bastardized forms that have developed over the years. There are common elements of Islam that share similarities with Christianity and common elements of Christianity that share similarities with Judaism since Christianity was born from Judaism and Islam was born from Christianity. But as far as the laws in most "western" governments, they were developed from Judeo-Christian ideals which is why there is more flexibility between people whereas most Islamic states are strictly enforcing Islamic law.

Christianity was just as influenced by Zoroastrianism/Mithraism as judaism. In fact, contrary to common belief, but judaism was not the first monotheistic religion, Zoroastrianism was.

[ashot24]

Re: Iranians in Armenia

Ok Muahaha I will just understand that what you want is a better world with more tolerance to religions as well to Atheism, you know I have many Atheist friends and all of them are good people, as well as I have Christian, xxx and Muslim friends and all of them are good to me, the problem here is that Western vision of Islam is so manipulated and xxxxed up because they want to convince the world Islam are all terrorists who want to take the world, in order to be able to go in that countries, control that people, and take the resources they have in order to get more money.

You remember why did the US invaded Iraq? They claimed "OMG there's weapons of mass destructions there!". Where were they? "OMG Saddam Hussein is a dictator, a murder and a genocidal who don't respect freedom of any kind, let's save those innocent people" What freedom were they talking about? They have never cared about any people or any human rights, they are the biggest violators of human rights. What genocidal? what dictator? When their own country was the first one to have weapons of mass destructions and threw in to the innocent people in Hiroshima.

Now they claim Iran has the capability of creating weapons of mass destruction, what do you think they want? All the Western world has the same vision of Islam and want everybody to think like that, to be that close-minded to others beliefs, so they can spread hate and hence be free of guilt when they commit the crimes they have committed.

The part of Quoran I read was the real Sharia Law and was read to me by a Muslim Lebanese, not the translated and manipulated version of Quoran in English or any Western languages, which all are manipulated versions.

Also, if you look on the how the United Nations use the definition of racial discrimination, laid out in the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, adopted in 1966:
"...any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.(Part 1 of Article 1 of the U.N. International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination).

As I said and will always say, we are doomed to perish as a specie on this earth as long as we don't start to respect each other, we are the only living being on this earth that destroys deliberately its own kind. As I say to people as a funny example, you see golden tigers living with bengali tigers and they are not "What the xxxx!? He's white!". Being respectful to others differences doesn't mean we are going to turn into them and share the same opinions, but treat other the same way you want to be treated, even if you disagree with them, there's a reason why we have language and is to communicate with each other, not to make our communication worse. The concept of borders and cultural differences in the 21st century must not be the same as the one used centuries ago, we are supposed to go forward not backwards.

If we don't start understanding that, all our centuries of great civilizations and technological advances and discoveries in any area and the intelligence characterizing us, have been worthless.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranians in Armenia

Muhaha i think you are focusing your hate on islam way too much. Christianity and judaism are just as nasty. I can sure understand why you are a aithiest but islam is not all bad as far as religions go, in todays world of narcisism i find the brotherhood concept in islam rather refreshing. Islam does encourages one to seek fortune but at the same time to help those in need-a balanced concept lacking in both christianity and judaism. Sure as all other religions islam is also selfcontradictory and based on bs which wouldnt hold up to any rational critisicm but as far as religions go it is pretty appealing and this explains why it is so popular around the world. Its brotherhood mentality gives people in todays lonely world a feeling of belonging they so soarly miss. Despite what many think, islam is not spread mainly by the sword, most people who accept it do so because they like it.

All three religions gained popularity by freeing people from governments and/or slavery within their respective time periods and most of what people are told about those religions have little or no bearing on the history that created them. The problem with Judaism is that it has far surpassed the times when people were slaves in Egypt and has resulted in seeking dominance over everyone to ensure their enslavement never occurs again. Also, there is a difference between Orthodox Christianity and all the other bastardized forms that have developed over the years. There are common elements of Islam that share similarities with Christianity and common elements of Christianity that share similarities with Judaism since Christianity was born from Judaism and Islam was born from Christianity. But as far as the laws in most "western" governments, they were developed from Judeo-Christian ideals which is why there is more flexibility between people whereas most Islamic states are strictly enforcing Islamic law.

[Haykakan]

Re: Iranians in Armenia

Muhaha i think you are focusing your hate on islam way too much. Christianity and judaism are just as nasty. I can sure understand why you are a aithiest but islam is not all bad as far as religions go, in todays world of narcisism i find the brotherhood concept in islam rather refreshing. Islam does encourages one to seek fortune but at the same time to help those in need-a balanced concept lacking in both christianity and judaism. Sure as all other religions islam is also selfcontradictory and based on bs which wouldnt hold up to any rational critisicm but as far as religions go it is pretty appealing and this explains why it is so popular around the world. Its brotherhood mentality gives people in todays lonely world a feeling of belonging they so soarly miss. Despite what many think, islam is not spread mainly by the sword, most people who accept it do so because they like it.

[Parskahay]

Re: Iranians in Armenia

the fact is:
we need iran and its support no matter what happens cause the good relation between azerbaijan and turkey is really a threat for us
and im totally disagree with anyone who saying that armenia is closer to georgia...
we have relations with persians since a lot years before BC
i lived in iran and armenia and i have seen the cultures
they are actually same
the only different that it makes is religion
armenia's foods names culture is much closer to irans
there are many names we have in common
like azad ara areshvad shahan Aram gadar varos shagig and many other...
even the persian empires kings had armenian names
you cannot deny the historical relation between armenians and persians we are the first rulers of this land(caucasus and middle east)
we also had mihr religion in common(armenians had mihr relegion begore accepting christianity)

[Muhaha]

Re: Iranians in Armenia

They have to pay special taxes, as well Muslims also have to pay other taxes, however refusing to pay special taxes as a religious minority in a Muslim state earns you prison.

What part of the Quran did you read this in? You're making this up. There are no special taxes for people who aren't Muslim, Christian, or xxxish. Those people are simply killed or forced to convert. Atheism is considered to be a direct insult to Islam and allowing them to live is out of the question.

There are laws inside any religion, we all know Islam is very strict and is seriously following what Quoran says, but at least even with that strict laws they accepted other people's beliefs, maybe no happily, but gave Armenians and Georgians the right to have their religion even under the Persian empire, don't they? And the proof of it is that Armenians remain Christian even after being under control of the powerful Persian empire.

That's because the Quran tells them they must respect people of "The Book". They only respected Muslims, Christians, and xxxs. Nobody else. I already said this.

At least they were more decent than the Roman Catholics, who never did the same. Even being contemporary to Islamic empires, the Roman Catholics in Europe, Africa and the Americas burned, tortured, massacred, persecuted, committed Genocide, and sentenced to death everyone who was not Roman Catholic, and crushed anyone who dare to defy their ideas, for over 400 years.

All of this is irrelevant to this discussion.

You're welcome.

Racism means discrimination towards other people's color, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion.

Racism has nothing to do with Religion, which is what we're talking about.

Look, if anyone's telling you how to live just don't listen to him, let him be stupid.

Huh? Don't listen to them? What does this even mean? So what I'm supposed to do is sit here, let them take over the world under the guise of tolerance, and then when they're forcing me to convert, I'm supposed to not listen and let them hang me?

And remember that Atheism, which is respectable, was and is looked down on any religion, not only Islam, just look at history. Only a few centuries ago, being Atheist was the worst crime to commit in the colonies in South America and Africa, and it is still very bad seen all over America, Europe, Africa, Asia.... How many people who refused to believe in any God in particular were subject to destruction and massacres at various times and by various groups? Too many, it's unfair that people have to pay the price of being different.

What's your point? I never said Islam was the only Religion to not respect Atheists.

Still this is about tolerance towards others, as I told you if anyone dares to criticize how you live, you must work your right to believe in whatever you want,

That's exactly what I'm doing, do you realize you won't be able to talk your way out of converting once Muslims are in control? I'm not going to tolerate anybody that wants to gain power so they can then show intolerance towards me or anyone else. The only thing Muslims want to do is make sure whoever they control lives according to the Quran. That is all and that is it.

but at the same time, respect those who at the same time have the same right,

Do you realize what you're saying? What kind of logical basis can you come up with for tolerating such a gross display of violent, militant, and aggresive intolerance?

and by any means you shouldn't be criticizing how they live or what they believe in, because as much as being Atheist for you is important and you love to live like that, other people takes any religion as important part of their lives and love to live like that.

They don't just love to live like that, they want everybody that's under their control to live like that.

[Parskahay]

Re: Iranians in Armenia

sometimes you must do anything for money...

[ashot24]

Re: Iranians in Armenia

Okay, cool, can you point to the part of Sharia Law that guarantees rights to people who aren't Muslims, xxxs, and Christians? Thanks.

They have to pay special taxes, as well Muslims also have to pay other taxes, however refusing to pay special taxes as a religious minority in a Muslim state earns you prison. There are laws inside any religion, we all know Islam is very strict and is seriously following what Quoran says, but at least even with that strict laws they accepted other people's beliefs, maybe no happily, but gave Armenians and Georgians the right to have their religion even under the Persian empire, don't they? And the proof of it is that Armenians remain Christian even after being under control of the powerful Persian empire.

At least they were more decent than the Roman Catholics, who never did the same. Even being contemporary to Islamic empires, the Roman Catholics in Europe, Africa and the Americas burned, tortured, massacred, persecuted, committed Genocide, and sentenced to death everyone who was not Roman Catholic, and crushed anyone who dare to defy their ideas, for over 400 years.

You're welcome.

However, they aretelling me I'm wrong and don't want to allow me to live as an Atheist. What kind of rights would an Atheist have in an Islamic world?

You don't know what the word Racism means, nobody here is talking about races. I also don't have a "Dislike" of other people's beliefs, all I have a "Dislike" for is people who want to tell me how to live.

Racism means discrimination towards other people's color, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion.

Look, if anyone's telling you how to live just don't listen to him, let him be stupid. And remember that Atheism, which is respectable, was and is looked down on any religion, not only Islam, just look at history. Only a few centuries ago, being Atheist was the worst crime to commit in the colonies in South America and Africa, and it is still very bad seen all over America, Europe, Africa, Asia.... How many people who refused to believe in any God in particular were subject to destruction and massacres at various times and by various groups? Too many, it's unfair that people have to pay the price of being different.

Still this is about tolerance towards others, as I told you if anyone dares to criticize how you live, you must work your right to believe in whatever you want, but at the same time, respect those who at the same time have the same right, and by any means you shouldn't be criticizing how they live or what they believe in, because as much as being Atheist for you is important and you love to live like that, other people takes any religion as important part of their lives and love to live like that.

[Muhaha]

Re: Iranians in Armenia

You need to start looking at people as human beings vs religious robots.

If they're not Religious robots, why would 'good' Muslims call themselves Muslims? According to the Quran, to be a good Muslim, you must unequivocally follow the Quran, unequivocally following one book makes a person a Religious robot IMO. The only good Muslims are the ones that don't take Islam too seriously, which of course makes them Non-Muslim according to the Quran.

There are big differences among people in the same religious groups-they do not all think or act the same.

Big differences like what? Are there any Muslims that believe we should all be allowed to make fun of Mohammad? Are there any Muslims that believe Atheists should be treated in the same manner as Muslims? If there are, they simply aren't very Muslim to begin with because their book tells them otherwise.