Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I'd like to bring your attention to this article.

Armenia Travel Advisory - Armenian Girl Murdered in Turkey

A significant segment of Turkish society hates Armenians. Therefore, it is not safe for Armenians to visit Turkey in general. The Armenian government should regulate tour agencies that sell Turkish tours, and make sure that their customers know the full extent of the danger they're exposing themselves to.

[Alexandros]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Many examples of turks and Kurds being kind and providing assistance BUT 1.5 MILLION TOO FEW!!!!!!!!

Why would a husband travel from Emirates to turkey and leave his wife there???

Has he no brain????

Alexandros, your wish to seemingly idealise turks and look to the good side baffles me.
The turk government carried out the Genocide but only with the knowledge and assistance of the turkish/kurdish/musselman peoples. These are the same peoples in turkey now. The turkish govt. didn't kill this woman, people did, men did, probably turkish/kurdish men, descendants of the creatures who killed in 1895, 1908, 1915 and on and on and on.

perhaps if you read about the western areas of Poland today, these areas taken from Germany in 1945, Poles are petrified that the rich Germans are coming back to re-take their land. thieving turks, living in Western Armenia have the same fears. Pity that Armenians will support, in any way, the turk economy.

hrai, every story have two sides. You unfortunately can only see the bad sides. I can see both the good and the bad sides. Something you need to learn. This is not about idiolizing Turks. This is about telling the horrible crimes committed by the Young Turks and Kemal Ataturk against the christians which constitutes a Genocide. But this is also about telling the stories about how some Turkish officials refused to deport(kill) the christians and they themselves had to pay with their life for refusing to follow orders( in the latest documentary "Aghed" they mention about this).

So the whole Turkish people is responsible for this Armenian woman`s death? Are you seriously out of your mind? Can we blame the whole Russian people when some Nazi Russians murdered Armenians - which happens from time to time - for these crimes?

Again, you try to revive the last debate where you made the false statement that all the Turks were responsible for the Genocide. Watch the latest documentary "Aghed" where they describe that although there were some "civilian" Turks who participated in the Genocide - it was far from the majority of the Turks who did this.

As for Germans taking back the Poles land, there were also fears that the Poles would flood the German labour market when Poland entered the EU. Neither have happened.

The majority of them who lives in "Western Armenia" are Kurds, not Turks. And the Kurds are for more sympathetic for what happened to the christians. Not to mention the guilt the Kurds feel for what some of their forefathers did who participated in the Genocide.

You don`t have to support Turkey`s economy. Everyone could make a choice of their own. But would you have anything against a Turk who wants to make his/her vacation in Armenia? Just curious.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I still think that there needs to be one organized comprehensive institution with concentrated archives the includes a very professional website with source material in several languages.

This route is the Turkish point of you.

In essence this what the Turks have been ( are saying).
Lets have and look at the issues we have between us, lets get at the "truth" as a historic exercise.
So these super archives will serve as a history text books telling the truth and that's it.

Armenia's position has been ( and is ) that the Armenian Genocide is a political issue and should be treated as such.

The world (those who matter) know about the Genocide. Throwing more facts at them will not make a difference.
Their judgment is NOT "is it true or not" but political considerations.

The fact that Genocide recognition is used as a threat against Turkey testifies that.

[Joseph]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

If that (highlighted) is required first port of call should be The Armenian Genocide Museum Yerevan.

However the Armenian Genocide is a very contentious subject due to some historic facts that were beyond Armenian's control, such as

We did not have a free homeland to pursue such issues (politically).
Diaspora never had the level of authority to stand in.
Political considerations by the big powers vis-à-vis Turkey.

Because of these and many other reasons the subject was "forgotten" and
easy victim to misinformation by Turkey and friends ( Israel and J.wish lobby etc) and we are where we are.

However the fight is not lost nor about to be given up.

Information about the Armenian Genocide is being researched by non Armenians as well therefore this information will never be in one place.
Incidentally no research is kept under one roof because "as a topic of the day" its taken by many Institutions and individual researcher etc.

BTW, you are correct vis a vis Armenia's ability to compile genocide info during the Soviet period.

[Joseph]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I disagree with that statement because there is monumental work being done by people such as ANCA and others.

It is presented well also.

There is a word in the English language called injustice.

If you have the judge in your pocket or the judge has you in his pocket then you can serve any (in)justice you want.

That is called politics.

Call the illness by its correct name.

I still think that there needs to be one organized comprehensive institution with concentrated archives the includes a very professional website with source material in several languages.

It should be run by Armenian and non-Armenian genocide scholars alike. It should also gather source material from numerous foreign archives. The material de-classified so far from the US archives alone already provide proof so you can imagine what can be found in German, Austrian, British, French, Russian, and perhaps even Ottoman archives. Imagine one site that could proved the coup de grace to all denialists, one resource for students, researchers, newspeople, educators, diplomats, etc to turn to.

The documents are there and I realize it is costly and painstakingly tedious work but with the level of professionalism and growing numbers of genocide scholars, it needs to get done. I realize there are several different institutions (Zoryan Institute, ANI, etc) but its about time they merge their work.

In the past, we tried to do something of the sort on this site but its not nearly good enough.

The ANCA does a great job but their focus is lobbying (I'm a member of the ANCA and love the organization) and not compiling historical documents. They have too much on their plate.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I think what Bell is suggesting ...... is that Armenians do not do a very good job or presenting their arguments.

I disagree with that statement because there is monumental work being done by people such as ANCA and others.

It is presented well also.

There is a word in the English language called injustice.

If you have the judge in your pocket or the judge has you in his pocket then you can serve any (in)justice you want.

That is called politics.

Call the illness by its correct name.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I think what Bell is suggesting (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Armenians do not do a very good job or presenting their arguments. Bell is not denialist and indeed often provides valuable information on this site. The Armenian government could provide one comprehensive site with thousands of archives,sources, translations, etc. supported by Genocide scholars. That would be a step in the right direction.

If that (highlighted) is required first port of call should be The Armenian Genocide Museum Yerevan.

However the Armenian Genocide is a very contentious subject due to some historic facts that were beyond Armenian's control, such as

We did not have a free homeland to pursue such issues (politically).
Diaspora never had the level of authority to stand in.
Political considerations by the big powers vis-à-vis Turkey.

Because of these and many other reasons the subject was "forgotten" and
easy victim to misinformation by Turkey and friends ( Israel and J.wish lobby etc) and we are where we are.

However the fight is not lost nor about to be given up.

Information about the Armenian Genocide is being researched by non Armenians as well therefore this information will never be in one place.
Incidentally no research is kept under one roof because "as a topic of the day" its taken by many Institutions and individual researcher etc.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I think what Bell is suggesting (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Armenians do not do a very good job or presenting their arguments. Bell is not denialist and indeed often provides valuable information on this site. The Armenian government could provide one comprehensive site with thousands of archives,sources, translations, etc. supported by Genocide scholars. That would be a step in the right direction.

You do not need corrected.

[Joseph]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I am appalled at your flippant comments.
Are you suggesting the information is too weak or non existence.
You are sailing too close to the wind of genocide deniers man.
Which planet did you land from.

There is tons and tons of documentary and legal evidence.

To start with haven't you heard of the Armenian Genocide Museum in Armenia.

http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/index.php

Haven't you heard of the research done through German and Austrian archives.
The Turkish archives were barred for many years presumably to sanitize the available evidence.

Haven't you heard of the work of Taner Akçam( a Turkish Professor)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBNI4PcEp2I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL3WF...eature=related (lecture in 12 parts)

Haven't you heard of the International Association of Genocide Scholars

http://www.genocidescholars.org/images/OpenLetterTurkishPMreArmenia6-13-05.pdf

Haven't you heard of the Zoryan Institute.

http://www.zoryaninstitute.org/AboutUs/AboutUs.html#Our_Mission

Haven't you heard of Ambassador Henry Montague and his reports

Haven't you heard of Dr. Johannes Lepsius and his work (and papers)

http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armenian/facts/

I could go on forever.
And all this despite the constant anti genocide propaganda dished out by so called lobbyists and public relations teams costing Turkey million to carry out.

Listen to him giving references to the newsflow at the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEKR9...eature=related

I think what Bell is suggesting (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Armenians do not do a very good job or presenting their arguments. Bell is not denialist and indeed often provides valuable information on this site. The Armenian government could provide one comprehensive site with thousands of archives,sources, translations, etc. supported by Genocide scholars. That would be a step in the right direction.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

The real motivation for many of these supposedly "ethno-religious" wars is usually at least in no small part "socio-economic" and the Kurds. Whilst prehaps not the genocides architects, still so have a lot to answer for. Since the Kurd knowingly entered into an alliance with a known interloper to the region and perpetrated crimes against his brothers houses.

I should point out that the Kurds aren't a Indo-Europeans peoples, either but rather a Semtic people (distantly related to the xxxs) whom acculturated a Indo-Europeans language from Persia.

As for the Turks have a long history of massacring oriental Christians, both directly and via proxy. Back the 1860s, the Turks and their Druze minions in Lebanon, massacred, Lebanese Maronite Christian farmers. Then as we know later around the turn of the 20th century. The Turks and their Kurdish lackeys lauched a whole series of massacres against the Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks.

The Kurds committed the first true genocide of the modern era, in Hakkari in (I think) the 1830s when Kurdish tribes planned to massacre every Nestorian Christian in the region. They then went methodically through every settlement in the region, killing tens of thousands, and would have killed every Christian there (men, women, and children) if the Ottoman army had not interevened to reassert the central authority and carted off the main Kurdish tribal leaders to exile in Constantinople.