Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

[SilverLining]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Retro, you're my hero.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I think what Bell is suggesting (correct me if I'm wrong) ......

That is what Bell is trying to point out ...

Thank you for proving my point !!

[gegev]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Well said......also never show victim mentality.

Right, but when it will turn into compensation/lands issue, we must remember it, in that context.

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

.....Being Armenian and inheriting the testimonies of genocide survivors is part of the thorn on the side of the Turkish agenda of denial, but it is not the enough on its own, in fact, on its own it can be to our own detriment. Being the experiencers of the genocide doesn't make us the best debaters, in fact it can make us spend too much time talking about how Turks are "central asian savages", while we are "civilized Christian saints", and no one who is not Armenian gives a xxxx. That is what Bell is trying to point out about "Armenians".

Well said......also never show victim mentality.

[hrai]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Right!

0.01% of the Turks that didn’t kill/saved ( let say 150 or so) unarmed/unprotected Armenian children/women lifes: which is a normal behavior for ordinary civilized people (not an extraordinary act of good will), doesn’t cover the gilt of killing 99.99% that is: 1,500,000 unarmed Armenians.

Spot on, Gegev. When such a miniscule percentage of turks act in a humane way, they are held up as the "typical turk"........incredible.

The blindness which covers many eyes, especially the ones who want to "move forward", "see both sides" etc, is that they transplant their own values to the turks.

We need to be aware and alert that turks have completely different view on the world and other nations. We relax our guard at our peril. Keep a dog in the yard, but keep wolves away.

Read about the Genocide, read about people's reactions to what was going on. As each new wave of massacre rolled upon defenceless villages, the people would dis-believe what was actually happening. Happenings beyond human comprehension. Realisation came too late, death came to early.

This "it could never happen here and now, it's a civilised country" is seen in every land where genocide and massacres have happened.

One civilizations values can never be supplanted on another, turks gloss over their values, their instincts, their barbarism. Then the mask slips, 1868 to now, how many times has the mask slipped, how many lives have paid for this?
Always keep your own values and never, ever, ever assume another people hold those same values.

Back to subject of thread.
I doubt very much this woman was Armenian, BUT she was a human and despatched in fashion not fit for dog. Remember, apologists, muslims only eat halal meat, meat killed in far better fashion than victims of "honour killings".

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Tigranakert, Bell and Londontsi, stop attacking eachother. No more character assassinations, or you'll receive a ban.

And Tigranakert, stop trying to warn "Armenians" about some dangerous/evil member on the forum who expresses points of view that contradict yours, I've noticed its a habit of yours and all it does is add needless drama to the thread. Just because bell is a bit harsh about Armenians (he's pretty harsh about Turks too) doesn't make him bad, he's challenging how well you know the literature on the genocide.

Being Armenian and inheriting the testimonies of genocide survivors is part of the thorn on the side of the Turkish agenda of denial, but it is not the enough on its own, in fact, on its own it can be to our own detriment. Being the experiencers of the genocide doesn't make us the best debaters, in fact it can make us spend too much time talking about how Turks are "central asian savages", while we are "civilized Christian saints", and no one who is not Armenian gives a xxxx. That is what Bell is trying to point out about "Armenians".

[retro]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

A point worth making is that everyone who participated in the genocide against us is long dead by now. Yes the denial by modern day turkey is a sort of perpetuation of the genocide but it is nothing compared to the damadge fellow armenians do to eachother and their country today. The modern day turk is reaping many benefits which by all rights should be ours and they should pay us for these benefits (land and money) but they are not responcible for the genocide their ancestors perpetrated. The lesson to not paint everyone with the same brush can take a long time to learn and i do not blame some of the younger people for not understanding this part of life yet but it is a important part which i hope they will learn one day. We should never forget the genocide and i agree with hrai when he says "if turks recognise and apologise for Genocide, if, that would mean absolutely nothing to me. What is done is done and cannot be undone by words." thus i do not support the diaspora politics of genocide recognition. As a matter of fact i think those who preach that genocide recognition is going to get us anything at all are simply fantasizing. The utter fixation on the genocide especialy in the diaspora prevents us from identifying and dealing with the mortal dangers to Armenians and Armenia. Instead of building a nation we are letting it fall apart. Instead of spending our money and efforts on constructing a homeland we would all like to live in we are pissing it away on polititions who smile and promise the world yet deliver nothing. How long must this go on before armenians wake up? However long it is, i hope they will still have a homeland to wake up to. No court or politition or ruling or anything else will ever bring us justice. Before we can think about justice we have to build a strong homeland yet this is not what the energies and resources of the diaspora are aimed at. Often i have talked to fellow diasporans about investing in Armenia and most will respond with "i heard sonso invested money but those hayastantsies took it all and he was left with nothing". I want to emphasize the fact here that non of them ever invested a cent in Armenia but they readily draw the conclusion that such a investment is worthless since they heard of some guy who once invested there and did not succeed. There are thousends of examples where diasporans and foreigners invested and profited and continue to profit in Armenia yet that "sonso" example seems to trumph them all in the minds of most diasporans i have talked to. People have great powers but usually these powers go untapped. Should we Armenians understand the threats facing us and tap into our own powers we can make a huge difference. Yes we can still build a country that we all would like to live in, all we have to do is set real goals and meet them. If the story in this thread is true then it is a good example of utter recklesness on the part of this woman and her husband and evile cruelty on the part of whoever comitted this disgustingly cowarly act. Just imagine how demented one must be to do these things to a pregnant woman. This act does not make all turks monsters but it was commited by monsters.

Retroactive justice is I'm afaid, no justice at all, but rather revenge. That said, it's a mistake to naïvly, believe in peaceful political solutions to what are on going inter-ethnic/ethno-religious conflicts. As the fact of the matter is that Shiite Iran and Lebanon are the only two, Muslim states to recognise the Armenian Genocide.

Politically the Turks neo-Ottomanist/Islamist government aren't in a position to recognise the Armenian Genocide. Since this would naturally open a pandora's box of compensation claims and other genocide recognition demands as well as domestic security problems.

However I worry more about the Armenians-Azerbaijan conflict. As it is a regional flash point, that can only serve to exacerbate wider, ethno-religious tensions and divisions. What is more, as long as both Armenians and Azeris are willing to be used as pawns in regional imperialist games. They will remain weak, polarized, inherently corrupt, vassal states. Who quarrel endlessly about who first poisoned the Caucasus well.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Erm ... it is you who are the people who have never read any books about the Armenian Genocide. And then try to make out that you are experts. The result is like a balloon, big and showy on the outside but containing nothing of substance and easily punctured by the bluntest Turkish needle.

As I said, like it is no use to go into discussion with a Turkish genocide-denier, neither has it got sense to go into discussion with you. The least you could do it watch the documentary (Aghet: ein volkermord), where dozens of real evidences of non-Armenian origin are showed.

Everybody on this forum should know you are not Armenian, but are just pretending to be one. What is your ethnicity? If I should guess, an American (a typical ArmeniaNow.com guy).

A wolf in sheeps clothes, fellow Armenians be aware of bell-the-cat, just don't take him too seriously.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

You should join the Heritage party, also comprimised of sneaky non-Armenian people like you, who ''tend to care about Armenia'', but just fool other people around. Can I again ask what your ethnicity is? I am not going into the stupid discussion with you, but I recommend you to watch ''Aghet ein volkermord'', that's for people like you who have never read any books about the Armenian genocide because then you would have known there are tons of evidences, mostly from non-Armenian sources.

Erm ... it is you who are the people who have never read any books about the Armenian Genocide. And then try to make out that you are experts. The result is like a balloon, big and showy on the outside but containing nothing of substance and easily punctured by the bluntest Turkish needle.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Don't bother asking Armenians about sources regarding the Armenian Genocide. Armenians know what they know, and don't feel the need to provide sources. That is why the words "Armenian Genocide" are mostly still accompanied by the word "alleged", it isn't really because of Turkish propaganda - that propaganda is merely kicking against an open door that Armenians have declined to lock.

Yes, most of the "hands on" killing was done by Kurds ("hands on" as opposed to, say, leaving people to die of thirst or starvation). The simple weight of eyewitness accounts indicates that that is true.

You should join the Heritage party, also comprimised of sneaky non-Armenian people like you, who ''tend to care about Armenia'', but just fool other people around. Can I again ask what your ethnicity is? I am not going into the stupid discussion with you, but I recommend you to watch ''Aghet ein volkermord'', that's for people like you who have never read any books about the Armenian genocide because then you would have known there are tons of evidences, mostly from non-Armenian sources.