Turkey: An Armenian Adventure on Two Wheels

[lampron]

Re: Turkey: An Armenian Adventure on Two Wheels

When it comes to abolishing visa regimes, that is all based on our political relations. We don't have the same relations with the West that Turkey and Georgia have.

becoming visa-friendlier to visitors from western countries - or from any country - and thus winning public opinion is an important step!

The main difference is that Armenia is not interested in joining NATO. But neither is Egypt, or Morocco or Switzerland

[Federate]

Re: Turkey: An Armenian Adventure on Two Wheels

are (male) Armenians greeted at passport control in Armenia with

“Bari galust Hayastan, sireli yeghbayr!” ?

The visa guards greeted me by saying my name and saying welcome.

[Mos]

Re: Turkey: An Armenian Adventure on Two Wheels

Of the countries I've been to, only America gives a worse impression for visitors that Armenia (though everyone knows in advance that America's passport control is the most obnoxious anywhere in the world so the American unpleasantness is not a surprise to anyone).

The second time I entered Armenia by land I was sharing a taxi with two Dutch tourists. One of them was diabetic and had a quantity of medicines and syringes and needles - that was enough for them to be accosted by the aggressive Armenian border guards as if they were drug smugglers, their bags emptied out, everything examined and taken apart carefully, forced to remove their shirts and then get patted down. It took over an hour to get through the border even though we were the only car there - I'm not sure if money eventually changed hands because I ended up waiting inside the taxi since it was cold and late at night, and the border guards didn't even bother to check my bag (in fact they ignored me completely).

And visas can only be paid for in Armenian Drams (and there is no currency exchange on the Georgian side so you have to be escorted into Armenia to change money then go back to buy the visa). Georgia has no visa fee, Turkey's visa cost a third of the two week Armenian visa, last 3 months, and is multiple entry. Georgia and Turkey are where most tourists entering by land will have been - so those are the countries that they will be comparing Armenia's border crossings against.

And the border officials in Armenia seem to have a way to extract more money - at the land border they are always out of stock of the two week visa, so you have to pay for a three month visa which costs a lot more. Except when you actually WANT a three month visa - then they are not available (so that, when you finally leave, you get charged for every day you overstay). Or maybe I've just been unlucky!

Bureaucracy in any country is cumbersome, including Armenia and other post-Soviet states. First off, if a person is carrying syringes and needles, they should have documentation that specifically identify the medicine. In the end of a day, drug trade is a reality that our border officials are fighting against, such documentation is crucial.

When it comes to visa, it is very simple (it's not like you have to go to embassy or anything, like for Azerbaijan), the price could be brought down, but the fees do bring in a good amount of revenue for the government. When it comes to abolishing visa regimes, that is all based on our political relations. We don't have the same relations with the West that Turkey and Georgia have.

As I said, border officials shouldn't be the indicator of a country, they are a bureaucratic element that is naturally inefficient, there are more important things in my view, that Armenia can improve on, when it comes to PR.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Turkey: An Armenian Adventure on Two Wheels

PR is not some passport official whom someone interacts with a few seconds. Those officials don't represent Armenia, they are just everday airport workers. Yes Armenia should work on its PR, but not in forcing airport workers to say certain things, but rather working to improve Armenia's standing in the information war, advertise Armenia for investment, and so on. I hate to admit, but Georgia does a much better job at PR than us, even though the situation of their country is worse than ours.

Of the countries I've been to, only America gives a worse impression for visitors that Armenia (though everyone knows in advance that America's passport control is the most obnoxious anywhere in the world so the American unpleasantness is not a surprise to anyone).

The second time I entered Armenia by land I was sharing a taxi with two Dutch tourists. One of them was diabetic and had a quantity of medicines and syringes and needles - that was enough for them to be accosted by the aggressive Armenian border guards as if they were drug smugglers, their bags emptied out, everything examined and taken apart carefully, forced to remove their shirts and then get patted down. It took over an hour to get through the border even though we were the only car there - I'm not sure if money eventually changed hands because I ended up waiting inside the taxi since it was cold and late at night, and the border guards didn't even bother to check my bag (in fact they ignored me completely).

And visas can only be paid for in Armenian Drams (and there is no currency exchange on the Georgian side so you have to be escorted into Armenia to change money then go back to buy the visa). Georgia has no visa fee, Turkey's visa cost a third of the two week Armenian visa, last 3 months, and is multiple entry. Georgia and Turkey are where most tourists entering by land will have been - so those are the countries that they will be comparing Armenia's border crossings against.

And the border officials in Armenia seem to have a way to extract more money - at the land border they are always out of stock of the two week visa, so you have to pay for a three month visa which costs a lot more. Except when you actually WANT a three month visa - then they are not available (so that, when you finally leave, you get charged for every day you overstay). Or maybe I've just been unlucky!

[Mos]

Re: Turkey: An Armenian Adventure on Two Wheels

you are mistaken, PR matters hugely...

companies, businesses, governments, institutions spend $$$$$'s on PR!

PR is not some passport official whom someone interacts with a few seconds. Those officials don't represent Armenia, they are just everday airport workers. Yes Armenia should work on its PR, but not in forcing airport workers to say certain things, but rather working to improve Armenia's standing in the information war, advertise Armenia for investment, and so on. I hate to admit, but Georgia does a much better job at PR than us, even though the situation of their country is worse than ours.

[lampron]

Re: Turkey: An Armenian Adventure on Two Wheels

They might spend $$$$$$'s on PR but obviously that money's wasted on Mos and others (me included).

Just because lots is spent on something doesn't mean it matters hugely................Does porn matter hugely in the US?

Of all the millions spent on advertising, only 50% of it works. The problem is nobody knows which 50%.

What??! You mean even YOU don't know? For a minute I thought you had all the answers!

Yes sending out a positive image is important and it's obvious to most people that corporations and governments wouldn't be wasting their money on PR if there was no return from that investment. And most likely that also includes the porn industry!

But you need very little money for what we have in mind here

Much more important is the awareness and willingness to make Armenians arriving in Armenia welcome from the instant they step on Armenia soil

Hopefully you realize by now that don't need much of a PR budget to train staff to say “Bari galust Hayastan, sireli yeghbayr!”

[hrai]

Re: Turkey: An Armenian Adventure on Two Wheels

you are mistaken, PR matters hugely...

companies, businesses, governments, institutions spend $$$$$'s on PR!

They might spend $$$$$$'s on PR but obviously that money's wasted on Mos and others (me included).

Just because lots is spent on something doesn't mean it matters hugely................Does porn matter hugely in the US?

Of all the millions spent on advertising, only 50% of it works. The problem is nobody knows which 50%.

[lampron]

Re: Turkey: An Armenian Adventure on Two Wheels

I really could care less what some passport official says to me...that's least of my concerns...

you are mistaken, PR matters hugely...

companies, businesses, governments, institutions spend $$$$$'s on PR!

[Mos]

Re: Turkey: An Armenian Adventure on Two Wheels

Is that a "No"?

If it is, then time for a warmer welcome?

I really could care less what some passport official says to me...that's least of my concerns...

[lampron]

Re: Turkey: An Armenian Adventure on Two Wheels

And so....

Is that a "No"?

If it is, then time for a warmer welcome?