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we're stereotyped

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  • #11
    Originally posted by jessoussi
    guys......have u noticed taht armenians in arab worlds are stereotyped??
    like my cousin's arabic teacher..each time she raised her ahnd to answer..he used to go like: hey, put ur hand donw, ur armenian...what do u know?
    that's like so offensive

    Maybe next time your cousin should tell her teacher "Why, is the subject terrorism?"
    And the teacher will win a prize for successfully teaching his students the 'lesson of' stereotyping...

    Comment

    • #12
      Originally posted by CatWoman
      Maybe next time your cousin should tell her teacher "Why, is the subject terrorism?"
      And the teacher will win a prize for successfully teaching his students the 'lesson of' stereotyping...

      Comment

      • #13
        Originally posted by winoman
        Wait a sec Armobarbi - just a thread ago you were saying somthing about folks calling us "white" - now were being called "black" - lol (see I said it was all relative - and a matter of making us vs them type distinctions)
        Actually ArmoBarbi is right...if you've been to Russia, or have lived in Soviet Russia you yourself would have experienced us Armenians being called "blacks" by russians....and its not just the Armenians that they call blacks, its the Azerbaijanis and the Georgians as well..basically anyone from the Caucaus region.

        Originally posted by winoman
        Well, beginning in the early 1980s a large influx of Armenians started comming in from places like Lebanon and Eastern Europe, followed by Armenia and Russia...(where most of you are likely from) - These Armenians (you or your parents) tended to be refugees from either wars or from very economically depressed regions. While some were quite educated - most had very litttle money. And they came in much greater numbers then ever before and concentrated into Armenian communities - like Glendale - etc. And they (you) resisted assimilation - as you could thrive in "Little Armenias" (I used to live in Hollywood BTW...Little Armenia!) - and there was also an explosion of youth and Armenian youth culture that didn't much exist before (outside of church). Thus you had Armenian gangs, hustlers, and Rabiz Armenians etc etc - and I think you'all pretty much knwo the rest. I think our image will be repaired in time (its up to your generation) - because (most) Armenians will educate themselves and become successful (and grow up!)....
        I am completely offended by this...your basically implying that the reason why most people have a negative view of Armenians is due to the recent immigration of Armenians from former Soviet states (including Armenia). If that isnt a sterotype, I dont know what is. Refugee Armenians that came to the US had just as little money as Armenians coming from Turkey...what makes them any different? And it is not the fact that Armenians do not want to assimilate..it is just the fact that Armenians living in southern california do not want to...and why should they when everyone around them are Armenians. And it also has a lot to do with culture now and days...things were a lot different in the US when refugees came from Turkey in the early 1900s...then when refugees came in the 1980s-1990s.
        i'll say more...but my friends are waiting for me at dinner.

        Comment

        • #14
          Originally posted by Inna
          Actually ArmoBarbi is right...if you've been to Russia, or have lived in Soviet Russia you yourself would have experienced us Armenians being called "blacks" by russians....and its not just the Armenians that they call blacks, its the Azerbaijanis and the Georgians as well..basically anyone from the Caucaus region.
          Yes - I'm actually quite aware of this - though you are correct - I've never been to or lived in Russia. I have, however, talked extensively with Russians here in the US as well as Armenians - so I've heard this before. As an aside - my mother (100% Armenian) has been called "black" by certain folks here in the states...(you may not recall seeing me mention that I lived in Missouri in my infancy/youth...)

          Originally posted by Inna
          I am completely offended by this...your basically implying that the reason why most people have a negative view of Armenians is due to the recent immigration of Armenians from former Soviet states (including Armenia). If that isnt a sterotype, I dont know what is. Refugee Armenians that came to the US had just as little money as Armenians coming from Turkey...what makes them any different? And it is not the fact that Armenians do not want to assimilate..it is just the fact that Armenians living in southern california do not want to...and why should they when everyone around them are Armenians. And it also has a lot to do with culture now and days...things were a lot different in the US when refugees came from Turkey in the early 1900s...then when refugees came in the 1980s-1990s.
          i'll say more...but my friends are waiting for me at dinner.
          I'm sorry that your offended - but it is fact. And yes - much of this is based on stereotyping (but not on my part). In the past Armenians tended not to make up substansial minorities where anyone would notice. And as a % I would argue that they were from more well off families before - then ones that have arrived since the 90s - so yes - combine these factors and what you have is the presence of poorer Armenians - ones who may be less inclined to learn English and "fit in" (you said it - why should they learn English and assimilate when everyone around is Armenian - etc - this is a recent phenomenon - Armenians had to adjust more in the past...) and with Armenian gangs and Rabiz out on the streets - etc - (everyone always asks me about those guys on taxicab confessions...) and just by there being enough to be noticed - yeah "white" (lol) America has taken notice - but in a negative way. (OK this may not be universal - but I'm sure we've all seen.heard this...I'm not making it up)...and in the past if one came accross an Armenian - they were often a proffesional - Doctor, Lawyer, business person etc - and now - its as likely - or more - then its just some Rabiz kid (or group of them) out on the street...
          Last edited by winoman; 03-02-2005, 02:54 PM.

          Comment

          • #15
            Originally posted by winoman



            I'm sorry that your offended - but it is fact. And yes - much of this is based on stereotyping (but not on my part). In the past Armenians tended not to make up substansial minorities where anyone would notice. And as a % I would argue that they were from more well off families before - then ones that have arrived since the 90s - so yes - combine these factors and what you have is the presence of poorer Armenians - ones who may be less inclined to learn English and "fit in" (you said it - why should they learn English and assimilate when everyone around is Armenian - etc - this is a recent phenomenon - Armenians had to adjust more in the past...) and with Armenian gangs and Rabiz out on the streets - etc - (everyone always asks me about those guys on taxicab confessions...) and just by there being enough to be noticed - yeah "white" (lol) America has taken notice - but in a negative way. (OK this may not be universal - but I'm sure we've all seen.heard this...I'm not making it up)...and in the past if one came accross an Armenian - they were often a proffesional - Doctor, Lawyer, business person etc - and now - its as likely - or more - then its just some Rabiz kid (or group of them) out on the street...
            that is exactly my point..you are sterotyping..your basically saying that the reason that southern cali armenians act the way they do is because they come from poor families or are less educated Armenians...that is not the case..its b/c these Armenians are living among themselves...they have no desire to learn the language and do what many Americans do such as continuing a higher education to pursue a better job (and I am not talking about all souther cali Armenian..b/c I have gotten to know a lot of intelligent armenians from southern cali)...You can apply this reasoning to just about any nationality...Asians for example...I've heard that there are more rude and "gangsta" like Asians..while here where I live 2 of my best friends are Asian and have just as high morals as any traditional Armenian. And Mexicans is another example. My point is that its not b/c Armenians in southern cali act the way they do b/c of where they are from or what their background is...its just about the people that they are around.

            Refugees from Armenia in the 1980s and 90s did not just move to California..they settled throughout the entire US and you dont here any complaints from police or society in general about them, do you?

            Comment

            • #16
              Originally posted by Inna
              Refugees from Armenia in the 1980s and 90s did not just move to California..they settled throughout the entire US and you dont here any complaints from police or society in general about them, do you?
              Please read my posts carefully - I think that you are basically saying what I have been saying - I don't understand your misperception of my points.

              And as for those not in S cal - yeah - for the most part they are invisible in our society and no one (for the most part) has ever even hear of or has an opinon about Armenians. However - Armenians are visible in S Cal - and though I totoally agree there are very many smart/educated/upstanding etc - who really notices - when there are also incidents of crime and other negative (percieved) behaviors that stand out - causing folks to form (negative) opinions...and yes - its exactly because of Armenians being grouped in numbers - and this leads to a situation where there is less pressure to assimilate along with the fact that there are many recent immagrants - who have tended to be poorer and less educated - and so on and so forth...

              Comment

              • #17
                Originally posted by winoman
                Please read my posts carefully - I think that you are basically saying what I have been saying - I don't understand your misperception of my points.

                And as for those not in S cal - yeah - for the most part they are invisible in our society and no one (for the most part) has ever even hear of or has an opinon about Armenians. However - Armenians are visible in S Cal - and though I totoally agree there are very many smart/educated/upstanding etc - who really notices - when there are also incidents of crime and other negative (percieved) behaviors that stand out - causing folks to form (negative) opinions...and yes - its exactly because of Armenians being grouped in numbers - and this leads to a situation where there is less pressure to assimilate along with the fact that there are many recent immagrants - who have tended to be poorer and less educated - and so on and so forth...
                I dont think we are saying the same thing...you're implying that the reason why southern cali gets a bad reputation is b/c of the many immigrants that are poor and less educated...I disagree with you on that, I dont think it has anything to do with their finiancial or educaitonal background...its all a matter of living among your own people. Look at any miniorty race or ethnicity and you will notice the same trend. If these same people were scattered around the US rathered then all grouped together in southern cali, you wouldnt have this problem...thus proving my point that it has nothing to do with your background.

                Comment

                • #18
                  OK then - were not saying the same thing then. I still stand by my points - and I'm not stereotyping...ion fact I've had this very conversation with some Armenians in S Cal a number of years ago where they were lamenting the same thing about negative stereotypes concerning Armenians and it was someone else there (all I remember was that he was originally from Romania) who suggested essentially what I posted here (and agree with).

                  In the past - if anyone in the states came accross an Armenian it was ussually in a profesional capacity. Now - it is various goings on in Glendale or Hollywood or such - shich don't always show Armenians in a good light (and look at how the media/TV has picked up on this). Its a shame really - but it goes with the teritorty - for the reasons both you and I stated. And I agree - it is little different then any other ethnic/immagrant population. You discount that it has anything to do with wealth/education - etc - well - its clear to me that this is a factor. If most Armenains in these communities were well off and held professional jobs (and in time it may evolve to that) I woudl argue that both the behaviors of the people and the perceptions of others wouldbe very different. But fundemnetally we agree that the (negative) perception is an issue of the existance of an identifiable ethnic community that is seen as clinging to its ways and not assimilating (well I would argue that once individuals make some $$$ they will more or less assimilate - one way or another...).

                  Comment

                  • #19
                    Originally posted by winoman
                    OK then - were not saying the same thing then. I still stand by my points - and I'm not stereotyping...ion fact I've had this very conversation with some Armenians in S Cal a number of years ago where they were lamenting the same thing about negative stereotypes concerning Armenians and it was someone else there (all I remember was that he was originally from Romania) who suggested essentially what I posted here (and agree with).

                    In the past - if anyone in the states came accross an Armenian it was ussually in a profesional capacity. Now - it is various goings on in Glendale or Hollywood or such - shich don't always show Armenians in a good light (and look at how the media/TV has picked up on this). Its a shame really - but it goes with the teritorty - for the reasons both you and I stated. And I agree - it is little different then any other ethnic/immagrant population. You discount that it has anything to do with wealth/education - etc - well - its clear to me that this is a factor. If most Armenains in these communities were well off and held professional jobs (and in time it may evolve to that) I woudl argue that both the behaviors of the people and the perceptions of others wouldbe very different. But fundemnetally we agree that the (negative) perception is an issue of the existance of an identifiable ethnic community that is seen as clinging to its ways and not assimilating (well I would argue that once individuals make some $$$ they will more or less assimilate - one way or another...).
                    I dont understand how you wouldnt consider what you are saying as sterotyping...unless you know for a fact that every refugee coming into the US from Soviet republics act the way you imply. Because I can just tell you right now that I am one of those refugees and I am in no way, shape, or form what you described in your previous posts.
                    Living a hard life should not consitiute as being "uneducated."

                    Comment

                    • #20
                      Originally posted by Inna
                      I dont understand how you wouldnt consider what you are saying as sterotyping...unless you know for a fact that every refugee coming into the US from Soviet republics act the way you imply. Because I can just tell you right now that I am one of those refugees and I am in no way, shape, or form what you described in your previous posts.
                      Living a hard life should not consitiute as being "uneducated."
                      Did I say everyone? (or you or what have you)...no. What I said is that certain perceptions are generated because there exists an identifiable Armenian community/communities that outsiders can see and identify as Armenians and that incidents of gang behaviors, Rabiz type behaviors or what have you (stuff perhaps identified with recent [poorer] immagrants - typical stuff - etc) get noticed and contributre to negative stereotypes (that other people have/get - etc). Where in the past - if outsiders were to (knowingly) ever come accross Armenians it was more likley in a professional setting.

                      I'm not saying anything negative or derogatory about you - or even about most Armenians per se - though you can look at other threads here and on other Armenain forums and see plenty of self-critiscism in this regard...but from me...no - what do I care - live and let live - as long as your not impacting me what do i care with how you - or anyone else - chooses to live their lives...

                      Comment

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