Spin

[Brer Rabbit]

Today I heard an annoucement of 675,000 Iraqi dead since this war began. The government and the military both insist that the figure has never been higher than 50,000 and discounted the higher figure as 'unrealistic'. This is what we in America call 'spin'. If you support the war effort (as my neighbor who has a son in Iraq does) you believe the administration. If you are a cynic who believes the war was provocative (as I do ) you are more likely to believe the latter. This is a fine example of the varied view of the massacres of 1915. If you grew up in Turkey you are likely to believe the spin that Turkish history books recount. If you are a decendent of the survivors, your view is very different. I am surprised by the number of posts showing such hatred towards the Turks. These people (my people) who died so long ago were Turkish. It is akin to hating all Americans because of the Policies of President Bush, it is not a rational comparison. Armenians and Armenian Americans need to realise this and move on. No good can come from projecting hatred on an entire culture because of one radical faction of that culture. It is like saying all Muslims are bad because of Al-Quida.

[RSNATION]

Re: Spin

Today I heard an annoucement of 675,000 Iraqi dead since this war began. The government and the military both insist that the figure has never been higher than 50,000 and discounted the higher figure as 'unrealistic'. This is what we in America call 'spin'. If you support the war effort (as my neighbor who has a son in Iraq does) you believe the administration. If you are a cynic who believes the war was provocative (as I do ) you are more likely to believe the latter. This is a fine example of the varied view of the massacres of 1915. If you grew up in Turkey you are likely to believe the spin that Turkish history books recount. If you are a decendent of the survivors, your view is very different. I am surprised by the number of posts showing such hatred towards the Turks. These people (my people) who died so long ago were Turkish. It is akin to hating all Americans because of the Policies of President Bush, it is not a rational comparison. Armenians and Armenian Americans need to realise this and move on. No good can come from projecting hatred on an entire culture because of one radical faction of that culture. It is like saying all Muslims are bad because of Al-Quida.

I agree to some point but one of the main reasons that this issue still exists is that there was never any apology or closure for the actions of what you term a "radical faction". I believe you are now saying that you're Turkish but didn't you say you were Armenian in an earlier post? What really seems odd to me is that Turks seem to be defending the both Abdul Hamid (the 1890's massacres) and then the CUP, both regimes that brought them disaster simply because those perpatrators were Turkish.

[Brer Rabbit]

Re: Spin

I agree to some point but one of the main reasons that this issue still exists is that there was never any apology or closure for the actions of what you term a "radical faction". I believe you are now saying that you're Turkish but didn't you say you were Armenian in an earlier post? What really seems odd to me is that Turks seem to be defending the both Abdul Hamid (the 1890's massacres) and then the CUP, both regimes that brought them disaster simply because those perpatrators were Turkish.

My Grand father was an Armenian from Russian Armenia, My Grand mother was a Turkish Armenian, they survived. The Armenian relatives I lost were all Turkish, that much I should make clear. I should also like to make clear that the deaths of my Turkish relatives was as horrific as anything I have heard recounted from other genocides. All the males in my grandmothers family were sliced in half, down the middle, then hung on meathooks in the family barn. But, they were Turkish citizens, and yes, I would like to see some closure. But I do not hate all Turks because of that.

[RSNATION]

Re: Spin

My Grand father was an Armenian from Russian Armenia, My Grand mother was a Turkish Armenian, they survived. The Armenian relatives I lost were all Turkish, that much I should make clear. I should also like to make clear that the deaths of my Turkish relatives was as horrific as anything I have heard recounted from other genocides. All the males in my grandmothers family were sliced in half, down the middle, then hung on meathooks in the family barn. But, they were Turkish citizens, and yes, I would like to see some closure. But I do not hate all Turks because of that.

Thanks for clearing that up. My familly was from a village near Hadjin in Cilicia. In 1915 my great-grandfather was in Boston earning money to bring over the rest of the family when the Turks struck the village. Only my grandfather (who was 10 years old at the time) and my great-grandmother survived miraculously but the other children (two girls and another boy) were butchered to death and the rest of our relatives were killed. So much for the arguement that only Armenians in combat areas were deported or killed. Hadjin was several hundred miles away from the frontlines.

Through the help of the Dersim Kurds, my great-grandmother and grandfather made it to Beirut and were reunited with my great-grandfather around 1920 and moved to Boston.

I do not hate all Turks but distrust them very much and for all the cultural similarities between Turks and Armenians (from living in the same place) can honestly say that the Turks have some definite peculiarities in their demeanor and outlook which are downright brutal. I've actually been to Turkey several time as my wife is a Bolsahye.

[Siamanto]

Re: Spin

I believe you are now saying that you're Turkish but didn't you say you were Armenian in an earlier post?

The poster is more likely a *urk masquerading as an Armenian. Reading the messages posted by Brer_Rabbit reflects the typical revisionist blah blah blah of the so called "open minded and moderate" *urk.
It won't be the first time that we see such *urks on Armenian forums.

Also, no Armenian would present himself or herself as *urkish.


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations!

[Brer Rabbit]

Re: Spin

[QUOTE=Siamanto]The poster is more likely a *urk masquerading as an Armenian. Reading the messages posted by Brer_Rabbit reflects the typical revisionist blah blah blah of the so called "open minded and moderate" *urk.
It won't be the first time that we see such *urks on Armenian forums.

Also, no Armenian would present himself or herself as *urkish.


I see you have a lot of post here, and are proud of your heritage, but I have to laugh when you say I am a revisionist and a Turk. I am neither, I am an American and I know that my Grandmother was the one who taught me about forgiveness, something that seems still beyond your grasp, Siamanto

[Siamanto]

Re: Spin

I see you have a lot of post here, and are proud of your heritage, but I have to laugh when you say I am a revisionist and a Turk. I am neither, I am an American

So an American cannot be a revisionist and a *urk? Your poor logic simply comforts me in my suspicions.
Yes, your posts simply repeat the revisionist views on the Armenian Genocide. It's a bit too obvious: no need to do the ostrich Mr. - or Mrs. - Turkey.

[
my Grandmother was the one who taught me about forgiveness,I am neither, I am an American

I am so touched. *the violinist enters the scene, playing a hit from the Revisionist Top 5*


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations!

[Brer Rabbit]

Re: Spin

Girl, you must really hate Turks! But, hey! Your always right, right? By the way, the family name is Galustian. It's late here, I'll read your vitriol in the morning.

[Siamanto]

Re: Spin

Girl, you must really hate Turks!

Girl? Another indication of poor logic?

By the way, the family name is Galustian.

Nice to meet you, my family name is Kefiroglu Cicek.

[gmd]

Re: Spin

[QUOTE=Brer Rabbit]

The poster is more likely a *urk masquerading as an Armenian. Reading the messages posted by Brer_Rabbit reflects the typical revisionist blah blah blah of the so called "open minded and moderate" *urk.
It won't be the first time that we see such *urks on Armenian forums.

Also, no Armenian would present himself or herself as *urkish.


I see you have a lot of post here, and are proud of your heritage, but I have to laugh when you say I am a revisionist and a Turk. I am neither, I am an American and I know that my Grandmother was the one who taught me about forgiveness, something that seems still beyond your grasp, Siamanto

This may piss off alot of people but I always wonder to what extent any Armenian is loyal to Armenians. We are so spread out, born in different lands, exposed to different cultures. I was born in Yerevan and I still have relatives in Armenia. I grew up in America, married an American girl and have children to whom Armenian is not their mother tongue. Despite all this I cannot stop thinking about the plight of my people their future. I cannot stop myself from being emotional when remembering the stories of people I knew who survived the Genocide. I do not hate Turks but I know they failed in what they set out to do during WWI. Sure they killed most of our people and took most of our lands, but they still have an "Armenian Problem" and it is just going to get bigger for them.
I went on that rant to try and make a point. The Armenian Problem for Turkey is that there are still Armenians who are proud, patriotic, and some of us even want a measure of payback. You may have Armenian roots like so many other Armenians around the world do, but when you go to sleep at night (in the same country as I do) your dreams are probably the typical American dreams. I dream of walking to Ararat with my father and son and no Turk stands in my way. I know it is not a pipe dream that we will have justice. It is a matter of time and the resolve of those Armenians who refuse to forget!