Armenian Race and Cultural Background

[armen111]

Re: Armenian Race and Cultural Background

And I suppose it's not a good thing ether? Please tell me how it is not a bad thing.

what? its not a bad thing. were all people. connected together. Armenians and Turks are good people. Y would you deny the mixture of both groups of people. what is it the genocide?

[armen111]

Re: Armenian Race and Cultural Background

http://armenians-1915.blogspot.com/2006/07/859-are-hemshins-armenians-or-turks.html

Have you heard of the Hemshins?


The Hemshin story begins in 791 when 12,000 Armenian families left Oshagan to escape "the oppressive harsh" regime of the Arab Abbasids and, with the support of the Byzantine emperor, settled around the town of Tampour in the Pontic region of the Black Sea. Today, they are divided into three Areas -- the "eastern" in the Hopa area, the "central" around the city of Erzeroum, and the "western" around the city of Trabzon.

During their remarkable history down through the centuries, the Hemshin have gone through many trying periods after they apparently absorbed the area's native peoples - the Kartvelians, ancestors of the Georgians, among others. Tampour became Hamamshen ("built by Hamam") which became Hamshen which became Hemshin. Because of the geography of the area, very little was heard about the Hemshin, over the centuries, except that they were obviously a vassal of the Byzantine Empire, then of the Trebizond empire, then of the Bagratids, and finally (around the 1480s) the Ottoman Turks. Despite the succession of "masters," their extraordinary isolation served to protect them from horrors of invasions and troubles from the outside -- until the 20th century. There is no written history or word-of-mouth stories until the 13th century.

Just as the Hemshin are geographically divided into three areas, so, too, is their "Amenianness." The eastern Hemshin have not kept any Armenian customs but they have kept the language. But, they are not Christians. The middle-area Hemshins do not speak Armenian, but they have kept some Armenian traditions (such as Vartevar) and had baptized their children until the 1890s. These two groups apparently suffered little during the Genocide, and some of them even participated against the Armenians. The western group retained their Christian religion and their Armenian heritage and were caught up in the Genocide -- most of the survivors left for southern Russia and Abhazia, in Georgia.

The three groups have little contact with each other, and there is, apparently, little feeling of kinship with each other and virtually no intermarriage. Among their differences is that the "middle" group -- the Bash-Hemshin -- have a higher level of education and a higher, almost professional, range of jobs. The eastern group -- the Hopa-Hemshin -- "tend to be truck drivers."

But, are they "Armenian"? Generally, the Hemshin, Simonian says, accept the "official" line that they are descended from Central Asian Turkic tribes;

some even claim to be of Arabic descent, though there is no record of any Arab migration so far north. Thus, the Armenian elements are supposed to have come from the period when the Hemshin were under the Armenians, and retained the language, customs, traditions. etc., after the Armenians left. To add to the confusion, some Hemshin survived the Genocide because they were Muslim; some were killed because they were Armenian -- which recalled the very old story of the two nuns walking through a town in the Deep South followed by several small black children who, when asked if they were Catholics, replied, "No, Ma'am, it's bad enough being colored!"

An interesting aspect of the Hemshin is that they have made a larger contribution to the Turkish state than their size and number would normally warrant, including a former Prime Minister (Mesut Yilmaz), a mayor of Ankara, members of Parliament, judges, and the Grand Admiral Mehmet Ali Pasha.

Answers about their origins differ, Simonian said, during the question period. "People," he stated, "are more likely to admit Armenian connections when they are in the pastures than when they are in town." Some regard themselves as of Armenian ancestors but are now Turks. And some answers, he concluded, "vary according to the age, the gender, and the geographic location of the discussion." Thus, older women recognize the Armenian connection, middle-aged men deny it, "and the young people are confused." Those young people weren't the only ones.

Simonian, who lives in the US and Switzerland, earned his BA from Lausanne University, and his two MAs from USC and the School of Oriental and African Studies, London. The Hemshin, which Simonian has edited as part of the Curzon Press's "People of the Caucasus" series, will be published in 2001.

[icoN]

Re: Armenian Race and Cultural Background

It's a bad thing because it proves us unpure.

[armen111]

Re: Armenian Race and Cultural Background

It's a bad thing because it proves us unpure.

u know what. i am truly surprised and sad! First this is embarrassing for me that you say this. Oh so its okay to mix with Greeks right but its unpure to mix with Turks? Stop being so racist and stop discriminating. We are all brothers. Let me guess you probably also say Hrant Dink is a hero right?
u defend him? He defends Turks and wants peace for Armenians and Turks.

BTW this wasnt aimed at you but everyone in this forum.


"If you aim for peace, it will become a Target"

[Էլիա]

Re: Armenian Race and Cultural Background

^I agree with you 100%! The Ottoman Empire/Turks shouldn't have barged into Anatolia and erased all the rich cultures inhabited in it! It's just unethical and sick!

[skhara]

Re: Armenian Race and Cultural Background

^I agree with you 100%! The Ottoman Empire/Turks shouldn't have barged into Anatolia and erased all the rich cultures inhabited in it! It's just unethical and sick!

Siamanto says "You can take the *urk out of the stepe but you can't take the stepe out of the *urk. Anyway, do nomadic savages care anything of ethics?

I am against the promotion of admixture. Civilized and rational racism isn't a bad thing. It helps people maintain their ethnocultural integrity. Also, mixtures with turks is much much much worse than say with Greeks or Georgians.

[armen111]

Re: Armenian Race and Cultural Background

all racism is a bad thing. Mixture with Greeks, Georgians, or Turks is not a bad thing.

[simonig]

Re: Armenian Race and Cultural Background

Turks do not want to live happily with Armenians. The Turkish governments agenda is to assimilate all ethnic groups withing their borders as Turks. This includes the Kurds and Hamshens. Turkey is 99% Muslim and I'm sure a lot of those people didn't willingly want to accept Islam. Turks go so far as to label ancient Armenian church's and monuments as their own. In an Anatolian website, it doesn't even mention that their have been Armenians in Anatolia for over 3,000 years. http://www.ancientanatolia.com/maps.htm

Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia were all inhabbited by Ottoman Turks and today none of these countries want anything to do with Turks. Why would Armenians willingly ignore our past with Turkey and intermarry with them. Armen111, I get the feeling you are heavily influenced by Hrant Dink and that is a good thing. But mixing(intermarriage)with Turks and Armenian/Turkish politics are two entirely different things.

[armen111]

Re: Armenian Race and Cultural Background

Turks do not want to live happily with Armenians. The Turkish governments agenda is to assimilate all ethnic groups withing their borders as Turks. This includes the Kurds and Hamshens. Turkey is 99% Muslim and I'm sure a lot of those people didn't willingly want to accept Islam. Turks go so far as to label ancient Armenian church's and monuments as their own. In an Anatolian website, it doesn't even mention that their have been Armenians in Anatolia for over 3,000 years. http://www.ancientanatolia.com/maps.htm

Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia were all inhabbited by Ottoman Turks and today none of these countries want anything to do with Turks. Why would Armenians willingly ignore our past with Turkey and intermarry with them. Armen111, I get the feeling you are heavily influenced by Hrant Dink and that is a good thing. But mixing(intermarriage)with Turks and Armenian/Turkish politics are two entirely different things.

There is a lot of heat between Turks and Armenians. And yes this could be true that many were converted by choice and didn't want to. There are so many things that happened during the Ottoman empire. Sadly we don't know all of it. No i don't think Armenians have ignored their past but i do think there was intermarriage going on. Not all the time but u know sometimes. U know Turkey right now is very europeanized and not a strict Islam state. Many are athiests or non practicing muslims. Turkey itself is very very and very diverse. Turks have a range of different phenotypes. light skin pigmentation to dark brown. Blond hair, brown hair, red hair, green hair lol very diverse. Yes i think i would say their was some intermarriage not necessarily after the genocide but perhaps before too.

[simonig]

Re: Armenian Race and Cultural Background

It's a safe bet that Turks don't like Armenians. The massacres of the 1890's and the Genocide weren't exactly acts of kindness by the Turks. Turkey's unwillingness to accept the Genocide is just adding salt to the wound. Armenian's hatered toward Turks is a natural reaction as would a murder victoms family would hate the murderer. You would be advocating acting nice with Turks in order to peacefully educate them on their past. Unfortunately we have tried that for the past 90 years and it's not working.

I 100% agree that many, many Turks have Armenian blood but do not accept that Armenians have converted Turkish woman into Christiany and married them.