Andranik Ozanian

[Bulgarahay]

Are you interested in nternational discussion dedcated to life and deed of Zoravar Andranik Ozanian in 80th annyversary of his death?
Please leave your oppinion here.

[Selpak]

Re: Andranik Ozanian

I haven't heard son of poet's name before. I found this on web:

part I

Guenter Lewy's speech at the Malkin Penthouse, fourth floor Littauer

Building, Harvard University, at 3 PM, on March 13, 2007.



Professor Lewy's speech is based on his book: Guenter Lewy, THE ARMENIAN

MASSACRES IN OTTOMAN TURKEY: A disputed Genocide, University of Utah

Press, 2005, ISBN: 0874808499.



(About one or two percent of the following may not match the exact words

spoken by Professor Lewy.)



Armenians call the calamitous events of 1915-1916 in the Ottoman Empire

the first genocide of the twentieth century. Most Turks refer to this

episode as war time relocation made necessary by the treasonous conduct of

Armenian minority. The debate on what actually happened has been going on

for almost 100 years and shows no signs of resolution. The highly charged

historical dispute burdens relations between Turkey and Armenia and

increases tensions in the volatile region. It also pops up frequently in

the other parts of the world when members of the Armenian Diaspora push

for the recognition of the Armenian genocide by the respective

parliaments, and the Turkish government threatens retaliation.

[Selpak]

Re: Andranik Ozanian

part II

Next month the US House of Representatives is scheduled to vote on a

non-binding resolution declaring the treatment of Ottoman Armenians during

World War I a case of genocide. If passed, the US will join the

considerable number of countries that have declared these events to

constitute genocide and a crime against humanity. Below a chamber of the

French parliament and Switzerland took the case further and made it

illegal to deny the Armenian Genocide.



There are many Armenian people who are for this kind of legislation. They

feel that just it is illegitimate to question the historical fact of the

Holocaust, Hitler's attempt to destroy the xxxs of Europe, it is equally

imperative to recognize and to denounce the Armenian genocide.



I have several problems with this position. First I believe that

Parliaments should legislate on what is in their competence and

jurisdiction and not try to decide contested historical questions, and

contested this question certainly is.



The xxxish Holocaust is denied only by pseudo historians such as David

Irwin. In the case of Armenians on the other hand some of the most

prominent students of Ottoman history such as Bernard Lewis and Andrew

Mango doubt the appropriateness of the genocide label for the tragic

events of 1915. Second, unlike the case of the Holocaust, most of which

is described in the thousands of captured German documents that formed the

main evidence in the Nuremberg trials; an analogy of many key occurrences

in Ottoman Turkey during World War I is also inadequate and incomplete.

[Selpak]

Re: Andranik Ozanian

part III

I believe in not to declare the subject as closed, instead we should

promote the necessary research that eventually you will make it possible

to arrive a more conclusive knowledge at a consensus of informed opinion

that will facilitate reconciliation between Armenians and Turks.



No one, it should be stressed, disputes the extent of Armenian suffering

at the hands of the Ottoman Turks during the World War I. With little or

no notice, the Ottoman government forced Armenian men, women, and children

to leave their historic communities; during the subsequent harrowing trek

over mountains and through deserts, large numbers of them died of

starvation and disease, or were murdered. Although the absence of good

statistics on the size of the pre-war Armenian population in Turkey makes

it impossible to establish the true extent of the loss of life, reliable

estimates put the number of deaths at more than 650,000, or around 40

percent of a total Armenian population of 1.75 million.

The historical question at issue is specific intent-that is, whether the

Turkish regime intentionally organized the annihilation of its Armenian

minority, and thus guilty of genocide. According to the Genocide

Convention of 1948, intent to destroy a group is a necessary condition of

genocide; most other definitions of this crime of crimes similarly insist

upon the centrality of malicious intent. Hence the crucial problem to be

addressed is not the huge loss of life in and of itself but rather whether

the Young Turk government deliberately sought the deaths that we know to

have occurred.

Historical background:



The Armenians have lived in the southern Caucasus, between the Black Sea

and the Caspian Sea, since ancient times. In the early 4th century of the

CE, they were the first nation to adopt Christianity as a state religion.

Much of their long history, however, has been spent under foreign rule.

The last independent Armenian state (before the present-day, post-Soviet

Republic of Armenia) fell in 1375, and by the early 16th century most

Armenians were subjects of the Ottoman Empire. Under the millet system

instituted by Sultan Mohammed II (1451-1481), they enjoyed religious,

cultural, and social autonomy and they were known as the "loyal

community," a status that lasted well into the 19th century.

Though large numbers of Armenians settled in Constantinople and in other

Ottoman towns, where they prospered as merchants, bankers, and artisans,

the majority continued to live as peasants in eastern Anatolia. During

the autocratic rule of Abdul Hamid II (1876-1909), the lot of the

Armenians deteriorated, and nationalistic sentiment began to emerge. In

June 1890, Armenian students in the Russian-controlled area of the

Caucasus organized the Armenian Revolutionary Federation. Demanding the

political and economic emancipation of Turkish Armenia, the Dashnaks (as

they were known) waged guerrilla warfare against Turkish army units,

gendarmerie posts, and Kurdish villages involved in attacks on Armenians.

They operated from bases in the Caucasus and Persia and took advantage of

eastern Anatolia's mountainous terrain.

[Selpak]

Re: Andranik Ozanian

rest http://www.turkishforum.org/archives...rassroots&P=79

[karoaper]

Re: Andranik Ozanian

You cannot understate the importance of electronic forums in the fight to save trees from idiots' bullxxxx. Imagine justifying clear cutting of the rain forest so that bullxxxxologists can print more turkish follies.

[Artsakh]

Re: Andranik Ozanian

Dear Moderators,

this is a very important thread and dear to the Armenian heart; I kindly ask that you immediately delete irrelevant spam posts in this thread made by Turks questioning the genocide; this thread was dedicated to the memory of our great hero, so I ask you to help keep it that way. Thanks for your consideration of my comments.

[Selpak]

Re: Andranik Ozanian

this is a very important thread and dear to the Armenian heart; I kindly ask that you immediately delete irrelevant spam posts in this thread made by Turks questioning the genocide; this thread was dedicated to the memory of our great hero, so I ask you to help keep it that way. Thanks for your consideration of my comments.

Sorry I didn't try to offend you. I found this on web. It is not even turkish. Isn't it good to know your enemies hand? Anyway, I can't find edit button... Sorry for offending you again.

[melikianAvak]

Re: Andranik Ozanian

Sorry I didn't try to offend you. I found this on web. It is not even turkish. Isn't it good to know your enemies hand? Anyway, I can't find edit button... Sorry for offending you again.

************************************************** ******
You offended my grandparents, aunts, uncles and other members of my family that were murdered by the turks in 1915. Yes some of us wanted to free ourselves from the yoke of the oppressive Ottoman Empire, it was never good for Armenians. I hope my family died for the future freedom of our people and the return of what is ours.

Our lands were taken, along with children women and young girls. Our people were murdered, etc. etc. etc.

One day we will return and take what is ours. Not just a threat, it is a promise. If your government does not turn around, we will overthrow it with the help of the many good turks, hamshens and hidden Armenians.

We will never go away.

Avak

[Selpak]

Re: Andranik Ozanian

One day we will return and take what is ours.

You can be sure about it.