Trip to Armenia (including pictures)

[londontsi]

Re: Trip to Armenia (including pictures)

.... a list of which mafiosi/oligarch/criminal/politician owns which hotels / restaurants / bus companies / supermarkets / etc., would be an essential thing for any concientious visitor to Armenia to have.

Can we have the list which you presumably already have.

It will be very useful for as you refer "any conscientious visitor to Armenia".

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Trip to Armenia (including pictures)

Can we have the list which you presumably already have.

It will be very useful for as you refer "any conscientious visitor to Armenia".

I am making a start here http://forum.hyeclub.com/showthread....hat-in-Armenia and will welcome contributions of information.

[lampron]

Re: Trip to Armenia (including pictures)

@Bell, can you for once stop spilling you negativity in each and every thread?

If bell is right about the architecture why should this be negative?

[jgk3]

Re: Trip to Armenia (including pictures)

If bell is right about the architecture why should this be negative?

I agree.

[LadyLazarus]

Re: Trip to Armenia (including pictures)

Aww, karotel em!

Gentlemen (Federate, Mos)--thank you for sharing your experiences; I, of the homesick variety, really enjoy your posts ... And please, post more pics if at all possible--I miss the soul of Armenia~.

I'll try to frame this so we stay within the scope of this thread, but I'm really interested in the following...

1. What's your perception of the 25-35 age bracket vis-a-vis their attitudes toward Armenians in the Diaspora, esp. those who have emigrated from Armenia (I realize this is a broad question )

2. What conditions (if any) are present for those of us considering repatriation? --i.e. ease/difficulty of not only finding work but succeeding professionally--(talking about the educated professional crowd), reintegrating into the social fabric, etc....

3. Do you personally believe (having visited recently and I believe visiting frequently) that the soul of our people, our cultural integrity, and other such factors persist in sufficient levels to enable Armenia itself as a political entity (not just Armenians as a cultural whole) to thrive and grow in both the near and distant future?

[Federate]

Re: Trip to Armenia (including pictures)

That is not old Gyumri architecture - it is a modern building owned by one of Gyumri's mafiosi. Traditional Gyumri Russian-period buildings would not be so garish or so badly designed.

I don't doubt it is owned by the mafiosi. While I was taking a picture of an old brewing factory in Gyumri, Dodi Gago thugs were outside with their 100% tinted 4x4s, all looking "thuggish" and were giving me looks. Residents later told me Gago owns the building and it is now an HQ of the Prosperous Armenia political party. Here's the pic I am talking about and more pictures of Gyumri.








Cheers :-) Avandakan Gyumru garejur

[Federate]

Re: Trip to Armenia (including pictures)

Aww, karotel em!

Gentlemen (Federate, Mos)--thank you for sharing your experiences; I, of the homesick variety, really enjoy your posts ... And please, post more pics if at all possible--I miss the soul of Armenia~.

I'll try to frame this so we stay within the scope of this thread, but I'm really interested in the following...

1. What's your perception of the 25-35 age bracket vis-a-vis their attitudes toward Armenians in the Diaspora, esp. those who have emigrated from Armenia (I realize this is a broad question )

Their perception of us, which is a perception regardless of age, is that we live like kings in the Diaspora. We are the lucky ones who "escaped". They all seem to have their own stories of how they were rejected by X or Y embassy. They think that the financial crisis affecting the entire world presently really only happened in Armenia. They are always pleasantly surprised that me and my friends knew how to speak, read and write Armenian. We were often praised for being fluent in our own language. Looks like they have low expectations of Diasporans remaining Armenian. They think everyone outside Armenia has been almost completely assimilated, especially if you're born outside. Majority of people were really pleased to see that we come back to Armenia and that we have not forgotten our roots nor our culture. Not sure if i'm answering your question exactly so let me know if I deviated from it or if you want anything more specific )

2. What conditions (if any) are present for those of us considering repatriation? --i.e. ease/difficulty of not only finding work but succeeding professionally--(talking about the educated professional crowd), reintegrating into the social fabric, etc....

The common consensus in Armenia is that times are much better than before but still lower than normal and that things are not changing fast enough (I disagree here). The locals there for the most part told me that it would be hard to move here because of a lack of jobs/opportunities but at the same time they would tell me to come and build Armenia and invest here. From my own perception of things, I don't think it is impossible to move there. I ran into a number of repatriates who have opened businesses there and have created jobs. As long as you have capital, I think moving there is not a problem. But from my interactions, you need to also know the "right people" or not rub the wrong shoulders. Reintegration is the least of your worries if you are Armenian. They have most things a European city would have in Yerevan anyway.

3. Do you personally believe (having visited recently and I believe visiting frequently) that the soul of our people, our cultural integrity, and other such factors persist in sufficient levels to enable Armenia itself as a political entity (not just Armenians as a cultural whole) to thrive and grow in both the near and distant future?

Armenians have an inherent distrust of authority and government that seems to be deeply embedded in their heads. They are politically immature. The oligarchs work like a clan and only help out one another which fuels this kind of mentality, not to mention the Soviet culture of corruption that existed for decades. For example, the smallest of things such as wearing a seat belt or car insurance for them is a new way for the authorities to screw the common population.

But there is major progress, especially considering our conditions with our blockaded borders, the earthquake, the war etc. Armenians have come a long way and there are major changes that are worth noting such as decrease in police corruption, the roads being safer to drive on, the increase in tourism etc. So yes, as the nor serund gets more educated and the old guard dies out, the factors are there for Armenia to thrive in the near future but people simply lack patience.

[Mos]

Re: Trip to Armenia (including pictures)

1. What's your perception of the 25-35 age bracket vis-a-vis their attitudes toward Armenians in the Diaspora, esp. those who have emigrated from Armenia (I realize this is a broad question )

Well, I can't say there is a general attitude among all those people towards diasporan Armenians. Let me remind you that almost every person in Armenia has a relative living in the diaspora, so it's normal to them to see and interact with diaspora Armenians. One perception that is sometimes skewed is that everything outside of Armenia is much better, which isn't really true. Every country has its difficulties and no place will give you automatic success. But in the end of the day, at least from my experiences, going back to Armenia is going back home to my family and relatives, going out of Armenia to any other country is going to a foreign land comparably.

2. What conditions (if any) are present for those of us considering repatriation? --i.e. ease/difficulty of not only finding work but succeeding professionally--(talking about the educated professional crowd), reintegrating into the social fabric, etc....

Well most important thing is work, and second to that is having some sort of family/acquaintances, having such connections will make such a move so much easier. Also, it will naturally be more difficult for a Western Armenian to repatriate than a hayastanci, so naturally you have to adjust and make that shift.

3. Do you personally believe (having visited recently and I believe visiting frequently) that the soul of our people, our cultural integrity, and other such factors persist in sufficient levels to enable Armenia itself as a political entity (not just Armenians as a cultural whole) to thrive and grow in both the near and distant future?

Armenia is getting better, no doubt, the youth are more optimistic and things are going towards the positive side. There are flaws and problems of course, but it all takes time. The work by the current government in united the diaspora and Armenia is a very good move, as they both need each other for the success of Armenian nation.

[Mher]

Re: Trip to Armenia (including pictures)

The common consensus in Armenia is that times are much better than before but still lower than normal and that things are not changing fast enough (I disagree here). The locals there for the most part told me that it would be hard to move here because of a lack of jobs/opportunities but at the same time they would tell me to come and build Armenia and invest here. From my own perception of things, I don't think it is impossible to move there. I ran into a number of repatriates who have opened businesses there and have created jobs. As long as you have capital, I think moving there is not a problem. But from my interactions, you need to also know the "right people" or not rub the wrong shoulders. Reintegration is the least of your worries if you are Armenian. They have most things a European city would have in Yerevan anyway.

I have a question along the same lines Federate. My friend, who I would say is a pessimist, just returned to the US after spending nearly three months in and around armenia. He answered my question regarding repatriates by saying there is not much hope of moving there. He said things arent really improving. He said having an american college degree means nothing. Your only hope of finding work is having connections or bribing.

So this leads me to my two part question

In all honesty, would it be reasonable to move to Armenia in 3-4 years? Would someone like me, I will be about 24 with a master's degree in engineering, without any close relatives, have a reasonable chance to make an acceptable living in Armenia?

Furthermore, you mentioned having capital, do you think I would be better suited to wait a couple of years, save some money, then make the move or make it immediately after graduating?

p.s. if everything goes as planned, I will be visiting Armenia for about 3 months in this upcoming summer.

[jgk3]

Re: Trip to Armenia (including pictures)

Fed, you really travelled everywhere in Armenia, those are nice pictures Would you recommend a packpacking or biking trip that encompasses all those places you visited? Are the roads wide (and safe) enough for that?