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  • Iremenia?!

    Anyone know more about this? Was this man crazy?

    W.J, Bethancourt III has an online essay which traces the God Samhain myth back to the year 1770 when Col. Charles Vallency wrote a 6 volume set of books which attempted to prove that the Irish people once came from Armenia. (http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_sa.htm)

    The idea that Samhain was a festival honoring a Celtic God of the Dead who was also named Samhain has been propagated by many conservative Christian writers who are critical of Halloween and its pagan roots. This myth among conservative Christians goes back to a man named Colonel Charles Vallency, who wrote a six-volume set of books in 1770 which attempted to prove (for some strange purpose) that the Irish people once came from Armenia. In actuality, there is no evidence that any such god was recognized among the ancient Celts. The closest thing to a supernatural being that was specifically associated with the festival of Samhain was not a god, but a wicked faery known as the Samhanach. Not much is known about this obscure figure in Celtic folklore, but it is known that it had a taste for abducting small children (most likely for the purposes of eating them), that it could perhaps be appeased by the giving of offerings (perhaps an ancient origin of our modern day custom of "trick-or-treat", which first appeared in print in 1939), and that it only came out on November Eve. But evidently this entity was never actually worshiped as a god, much less a god of the dead. (http://www.theisticsatanism.com/geifodd/halloween.html)

  • #2
    Paddy O'Haroutunian

    Perhaps in some way all humans are related but his theory sounds a little far-fetched for me.

    The Irish are fine by me but I highly doubt we are related.
    General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by chinchilla View Post
      Anyone know more about this? Was this man crazy?

      W.J, Bethancourt III has an online essay which traces the God Samhain myth back to the year 1770 when Col. Charles Vallency wrote a 6 volume set of books which attempted to prove that the Irish people once came from Armenia. (http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_sa.htm)
      There was a book from the 1820s on ebay a week or so ago on the same subject.
      Plenipotentiary meow!

      Comment


      • #4
        Don't be too quick to write it off. Ever been to Karahunj? Some have made connections between the stonehenge in Armenia from 4,000 BCE to that of England from 2,000 BCE. So if it's possible that Armenians helped build, or by themselves built England's stonehenge, why wouldn't it be possible that they could've migrated to the region?

        If Noah was the father of the Armenian nation, established in the Ararat valley after the flood, then where did the world's current population originate?

        I think I've also heard that a lot of Celtic words are strikingly similar to Armenian words.

        I'd leave it open to possibility...

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        • #5
          Posted by Eilian

          This affinity of Welsh people for Armenians is not surprising.We lost our independence about the same time as Armenia and only recently regained some autonomy. " Tchoor" (water)is dwr in Welsh (pronounced door)
          "Hin" (ancient) is hen in Welsh
          "Kar" (stone) is Carreg in Welsh (pronounced Karreg)
          The letters c,p, t change to g, b, d in Welsh as they do in Armenian

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          • #6
            Many Welsh people,ostensibly thought of as a Celtic race, are indeed very Mediterranean in appearance, black hair, olive skin, dark eyes. Just look at Catherine Zeta-Jones.








            Okay,Joseph, you can stop looking at her now!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by steph View Post
              Many Welsh people,ostensibly thought of as a Celtic race, are indeed very Mediterranean in appearance, black hair, olive skin, dark eyes. Just look at Catherine Zeta-Jones.








              Okay,Joseph, you can stop looking at her now!
              I like
              General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Speaking of the Irish, here is an editorial from the Irish Independent...
                SORRY, TURKEY, BUT THE EU IS FOR EUROPEANS

                Irish Independent
                May 21, 2007 Monday

                As the Turkish army continues to struggle to maintain that country's
                increasingly fragile secular nature, it's interesting to note just how
                hostile liberal Europeans were to new French Prime Minister Nikolas
                Sarkozy's blunt refusal to consider Turkey's membership of the EU.

                It was a sign of Sarkozy's inherent racism, squawked one French
                commentator. It was an example of the growing rise of an intolerant
                right wing in France, said one German politician, presumably exploding
                the notion that Germans don't do irony in one fell swoop.

                Of course, as the issue of Muslim integration in mainland Europe
                becomes thornier by the day, opponents of Turkey's accession into the
                EU are quick to point out the inevitable problems Europe would face
                from the arrival of 70,413,958 Muslims (2006 figures) into our midst.

                Anyone raising this point is invariably accused of racism, or at
                the very least xenophobia, but one only has to look at the problems
                caused in France, Germany, Britain and, outside the EU, Australia
                to realise that regardless of where you place the blame, large-scale
                Muslim immigration brings with it a wealth of problems.

                And yet the irony is that no other country is doing more to combat the
                growing extremism of its Muslim population. Last week, an estimated
                one million Turks gathered in Izmir to protest at the conservative
                Muslim Government's move to further Islamicise the country.

                "We're here for our children because we want them to be able to live
                in a democracy, not in a land with sharia rules," said one protester
                who flew from his native Ankara to take part in the protest, and he
                is just one of millions of people who give the lie to the notion that
                all Muslims want a theocracy.

                But while there's no doubt that these protesters, and other supporters
                of the secular tradition established by Ataturk in the 1920s, deserve
                credit and support in the face of rising Islamism, there are still more
                compelling reasons to prevent them from enjoying full Union membership.

                For a start, only 3% of the actual country lies inside Europe.

                Certainly, if we were to apply the Eurovision standard of geography,
                which allows a Middle Eastern country like Israel to participate,
                such a piffling detail could be ignored.

                But while European politics are frequently as farcical and downright
                bloody baffling as Eurovision's voting system, we must be prepared
                to say where Europe ends and Asia begins.

                Also, there is the country's appalling human rights record.

                After seeing the insane fuss made over the Danish cartoons a while
                back, are we prepared to allow a country where it is a crime to
                "insult Turkey, the flag or its people" into our midst?

                This level of outraged sensitivity can be seen this week inThe Journal
                OfTurkish Weekly, where one of their columnists explodes in fury that
                some Armenian protestors: "Last week, Armenians once more burnt the
                Turkish flag in Athens, Greece. They insulted Turkey and Turks.

                "In Georgia we saw the same picture; ultra nationalist Armenians
                living in Javakhk insulted the Turkish flag.

                "The Armenians first spread the flag on the ground, and then all of
                them jumped over the Turkish flag, and finally they burnt it. Then
                they went to church and held a divine service."

                Ah yes, the Armenian issue. It is still a crime in Turkey to talk
                openly about the Armenian Holocaust, and writers face imprisonment
                and torture if they do.

                It is also, lest we forget, a country where only last year the Turkish
                parliament, theMeclis, debated on whether adultery should be a criminal
                offence. The proposal wasn't passed, but can you imagine any European
                legislature having the same debate?

                Sarkozy's compromise of a Mediterranean Union, featuring co-operation
                between countries along the Med's rim, makes perfect sense, but has
                been dismissed outright by a petulant Turkish regime.

                There are many reasons why Turkey should not be allowed into the EU,
                and we do both them and us a disservice to concentrate purely on
                their Muslim nature, particularly when they are treating the problem
                seriously.

                But sorry, guys, we have to be prepared to simply state that Europe
                is for Europeans.
                General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  The first inhabitants were the Britons, who came from Armenia

                  1-448
                  The island Britain (1) is 800 miles long, and 200 miles broad.
                  And there are in the island five nations; English, Welsh (or
                  British) (2), Scottish, Pictish, and Latin. The first
                  inhabitants were the Britons, who came from Armenia (3), and
                  first peopled Britain southward.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Joseph View Post
                    [B]
                    It is also, lest we forget, a country where only last year the Turkish
                    parliament, theMeclis, debated on whether adultery should be a criminal
                    offence. The proposal wasn't passed, but can you imagine any European
                    legislature having the same debate?
                    Yes. Poland.
                    Plenipotentiary meow!

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