was the genocide inevitable?

[arabaliozian]

Was the Genocide Inevitable?
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According to Hagop Oshagan, "our revolutionaries lost because they formed only tiny islands in the Ottoman sea." An old-timer once echoes this sentiment to me when he compared the ARF to a frog trying to rape the Ottoman elephant.

When warned by foreign observers as well as high-ranking Armenian bureaucrats within the Ottoman administration against acts of provocation, our revolutionaries’ response was, in effect, "we challenge the sultan to massacre us and risk immediate intervention by the great powers of Europe."

"Some Armenians," writes Philip Mansel in his Constantinople: city of the World’s Desire, "hoped for a massacre in the belief that it would provoke the intervention of the great powers."

In his Mandate for Armenia, James Gidney, by no means an ani-Armenian scholar, concurs: "Armenians bear a part of the blame [for the genocide] for their gullibility in assuming that, because the great powers admired them, the great powers would protect them."

Another pro-Armenian scholar, Christopher Walker, calls this "the single most dangerous illusion that the Armenians entertained." Both the Turks and the Armenian revolutionaries, concludes Mansel (mentioned above) "treated the Armenians as pawns, without regard for human life."

When our own Zarian said, "Our political parties have been of no political use to us," he was probably making the understatement of the millennium.

[Azad]

Re: was the genocide inevitable?

... frog trying to rape the Ottoman elephant.

Coincidentally every "frog" from North Africa, Middle East all the way to the Balkans did "rape the Ottoman elephant" very successfully. And it seams the elephant punished the ones that were the least aggressive and more compliant. I don't need to tell you of compliance.

[arabaliozian]

Re: was the genocide inevitable?

a good point.

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: was the genocide inevitable?

." Both the Turks and the Armenian revolutionaries, concludes Mansel (mentioned above) "treated the Armenians as pawns, without regard for human life."

When our own Zarian said, "Our political parties have been of no political use to us," he was probably making the understatement of the millennium.

Strong statements that echo the truth.

[Vagharshapat]

Re: was the genocide inevitable?

Was the Genocide Inevitable?
********************************************

No it was not. It was a project of Union and Progress party to cleanse Anatolia from Christians and reach out to Central Asia to build a great Turan Empire. The Armenians were the biggest obstacle in between. So they had this great chance and excuse that Armenians being rebellious that's it. Cleansing of Christians is a project and policy also for the great capital transfer to build the Turkish bourgeoisie...

[Hellektor]

Re: was the genocide inevitable?

There's nothing new in this blaming of Dashnaks for the Armenian Genocide. It all comes from the constant comparing (and belittling) of the Armenian Genocide to what happened or did not happen in WWII.

The Armenian Genocide did not start in 1915 but in 1071. Ever since the sixteenth century when the Ottomans laid their filthy paws on mainland Armenia, they systematically ran a policy of turkification, forced assimilation and extermination by changing the Armenian place names, underestimating the Armenian population by inflating the number of Muslims, cutting tongues for speaking Armenian, stealing the healthy, smart and good looking children for Janissary and their harems, improving their genes causing the degeneration of that of the Armenians.

The massacres starting from the 1850’s and peaking in 1890s, during the Hamidian Genocide (where it was not war but people died), leave no place for attributing the guilt of the Armenian Genocide to a handful Armenians who were realistic enough to defend themselves against the genocidal Turk.

The Armenian Genocide would have happened regardless, they also had the delusional ideology, pan-Turkism, invented by Jews like Arthur Lumley Davids, Leon Cahun, Moïse Cohen a.k.a. Tekin Alp, Arminius Vambery, etc., that gave them the resolve to carry out the total extermination of the Armenians to prevent the liberation of Armenia. Only if we had done to them what they accuse us of…

[KarotheGreat]

Re: was the genocide inevitable?

they declare that the armenian genocide 1913 +was well planed by ottoman empaire leaders,some other could place other unfound statment saying that genocide started 1070, serious statments said by unserious bodies.
the ottoman empaire 1915 had AGOP KAZAZIAN ,ministry of tresury
BEDROS HALLANCIYAN, minis.of public works
GABRIEL NORADUKIAN, minis of exterior
do you say those ministers were playing around or they were simply traitors,an ill minded will say without hesitation "they were all traitors,afterall oll the armenians from turkey are traidors " !!!,it is easy for them to blame since they are behind a computer screen hiding their real profile, they are full of unlimited hate. Well lets go the other part of distorted history "the genocide begun 1070",! Do you knew when Napolion Bonapart was defeted infront of Akka and he sent a delegate to Istanbul to investigate if there was a possiblity to iniciate a riot by armenians against Ottomans.The embassador of France Sebastiani answers without hesitation to delegates "no he affirms the armenians are very confortable and happy with their life"

What are you saying that the Turks haven't done anything, the Ottoman empire isn't at fault at all. The genocide started then with the destroction of Ani and the kingdom of Ani. When our people wtarted moving to the diffrent corners of the world after that.

And were did you come with the Bs date of 1913.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: was the genocide inevitable?

According to Hagop Oshagan, "our revolutionaries lost because they formed only tiny islands in the Ottoman sea." An old-timer once echoes this sentiment to me when he compared the ARF to a frog trying to rape the Ottoman elephant.

They weren't saying that about Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, who all did the exact same thing to the Ottomans. Hmmm, maybe because most Greeks, Bulgars and Serbs actually JOINED their revolutionaries.

The massacres starting from the 1850’s and peaking in 1890s, during the Hamidian Genocide (where it was not war but people died), leave no place for attributing the guilt of the Armenian Genocide to a handful Armenians who were realistic enough to defend themselves against the genocidal Turk.

I'm glad to have you around, Hellektor. Some Armenians believe that Turks were not at fault for subjugating Armenians for so long, openly massacring them for DECADES before WWI, and exiling and/or killing all the Ottoman-Armenian ministers that they proudly parade around as "proof" that Armenians and Turks were equals and that we had no reason to act as we did.

If these naive people were populating Karabagh in the late 80's, they would have got up and left the province just so they don't get on the Azeri's bad side.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: was the genocide inevitable?

Clearly Iam not saying that,you pull any discussion to the direction you desire to,the genocide took place in ottoman land.The responsibles was the rebel ittahat teraki -jean turk terrorists,who misused the othority of sultan who had no power to control the new movment in ottoman lands

You are wrong the guilty are the Turks all of them, no rebels no nohing the Turks all of them. The state is guilty, the people are guilty, and they'll stay guilty thill we have our revenge and our lands back.

And xxxx the bloody sultan who has killed hunderd of thousands of Armenians. So may he rot in hell and demons may xxxx on his soul. Because that's what he deserves

[Hellektor]

Re: was the genocide inevitable?

I'm glad to have you around, Hellektor. Some Armenians believe that Turks were not at fault for subjugating Armenians for so long, openly massacring them for DECADES before WWI, and exiling and/or killing all the Ottoman-Armenian ministers that they proudly parade around as "proof" that Armenians and Turks were equals and that we had no reason to act as we did.

Thanks for the pat dear ArmSurvival.

Not only the Armenian Genocide, i.e. the systematic annihilation of the indigenous population of the Armenian Highland, did not start in 1915 (add to my examples the settling of the other nomadic bloodthirsty tribes, the Kurds, in Armenia as early as the 16th century and on, exclusively to harass and suppress the Armenians and prevent any chance of their uprising against the Ottoman occupiers) it has not ended yet.

The Artsakh war, the prevention of Artsakh’s recognition despite the fact that it has never been part of an independent fake “Azerbaijan” and the 100% legality of its cause, the ongoing destruction of Armenian heritage, the denial of the AG, the changing of Armenian place names, the falsification of history, even recent history where with a little help from their Khazar kin the Armenians have been presented as the bad guys who occupy “Azeri” territory, a nonexistent “nation” that has counterfeited their fake state on Armenian territory in 1918, etc., etc., are blatant instances of the continuation of the destruction of the Armenian nation as a result of constant impunity of this crime.