Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Church sleeps with the enemy

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Church sleeps with the enemy

    For at least five years if not longer Armenian activists have addressed the ongoing lobbying activities of a handful of American J-ewish organizations including the AJC on behalf of Turkey in the halls of U.S. congress to stonewall US official acknowledgement of the Armenian genocide.



    As recently as February 2008, AJC representative Barry Jacobs disclosed his organization's position that the AJC can't say whether or not it was a genocide because it happened so long ago, that it is not good to get into recognizing genocides unless it is geopolitically favorable and not only AJC but the whole j-ewish community was against calling it a genocide. http://www.xxxcy.com/post/american_x...des_took_place

    "Aram Hamparian, Executive Director of the Armenian National Committee of America: Your efforts to score points in Ankara at the expense of the Armenian Genocide issue is a transparent transaction that, I think, squanders the moral capital of the xxxish community, undermines our collective efforts to fight Holocaust denial, and, if the ADL [Anti-Defamation League] experience of the last few months is any indication, is very far outside of the mainstream of your own community, and it's just so painful to come and hear you echo those same themes again. I just had to share that with you.

    Barry Jacobs, Director of Strategic Studies of the American xxxish Committee:
    It's not about the position of the American xxxish Committee and the American xxxish community. It's not about, we are not historians, which is a polite, bullxxxx way of saying we're not going to take responsibility, we are not going to make a decision on 1915. But the relationship between United States and Turkey, if we want to, I don't know where you are, whether you are right or left, if you're left in the United States and want to get out of Iraq, well, look you at the map, Brits have pulled out of Basra, there are only two ways to get out of Iraq, you have to go south, you have to go north, and if you go north you got to go through Turkey.

    So the argument that finally persuaded Congress, and I know this is not – I'm looking for a strong enough word – [unintelligible] but, the message was that the bilateral relationship between the United States and Turkey will suffer greatly if this resolution is passed. The xxxish Community believed that also, and that's been our position. And the world is not made up of choices between good and bad, at least not in the Foreign Service when I was in it, it's made up between choices between bad and worse. So we take practical positions, and the position of all the xxxish organizations, including ADL, was not have a position on the facts of what happened, or not taking a public position on what happened in 1915, we did not think, do not think, that the United States Congress is the place to settle this.

    And that's all I can tell you. And that's the real world and that's the position of United States Government and of the Government of Israel."

    Yet, despite plenty of empirical evidence that the AJC is not friends with Armenians, in the U.S. and abroad, a member of the Armenian clergy in the eastern U.S. honored AJC for a "longstanding friendship". http://www.ajc.org/site/apps/nlnet/c...241&ct=5908607 (notably, this Armenian clergyman honored a member of AJC who is also influential in JINSA which also actively lobbied on Turkey's behalf against US Armenian genocide recognition)

    This branch of the Armenian church in the U.S., this clergyman who holds himself in high regard, was used like a tool by the AJC for them to make a political statement about the long-standing friendship of Armenians and J-ews. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...mber/2.17.html


    Last I recall, I don't have any friends that spit on me or don't stand up for me when I am spat upon. In the same way the AJC doesn't accurately represent the sentiment of the whole J-ewry, the Armenian church does not accurately represent all Armenians.

    This Armenian clergyman is oblivious to the manner in which our long standing friends are treated in of all places Israel. I don't see American J-ewish organizations condemning the practice of Orthodox, nay extremist, J-ews spitting on Armenians in Jerusalem.

    If Armenians spat on orthodox J-ews in New Jersey, it would be treated as a hate crime.

    Friends don't attempt to revise your history, they don't prevent others from properly acknoweldging your past (especially, when it is so close to their past in time and occurrence) and they don't support those who are preventing others from properly acknoweldging your past.

    The saying is your enemies' enemy is your friend. It's not your enemies' fried is your friend.

    Someone on in the East Coast Armenian community needs to read this clergyman the riot act.
    Last edited by freakyfreaky; 10-16-2008, 09:14 PM.
    Between childhood, boyhood,
    adolescence
    & manhood (maturity) there
    should be sharp lines drawn w/
    Tests, deaths, feats, rites
    stories, songs & judgements

    - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

  • #2
    Re: Church sleeps with the enemy

    Former Chair of AAA's board of Directors blasts Israel's sale of weapons to Azerbaijan and points to American J-ewish Committee's overt support for Baku including lobbying for Azerbaijan.

    Turkish Daily News: Explore the latest Turkish news, including Turkey news, politics, political updates, and current affairs. Israel: Hamas Intelligence Deputy Head Shadi Barud Killed - 21:10

    A prominent Armenian activist urged the Jewish community in the U.S. to reverse the dangerous action of Israel's potential arm sale to Azerbaijan, Turkish...



    Dangerous Endorsement: More Israeli Military Arms sold to Azeris as xxxish lobby backs Azerbaijan
    Commentary by Jirair Haratunian

    Published: 10 October, 2008 Article tools printable version email to friend comments (18) share the article A dangerous pattern is emerging in the Caucasus with new reports that Israel is continuing to sell advanced military armaments to Azerbaijan, costing hundreds of millions of dollars. These military sales are an incendiary fuse in a volatile South Caucasus where a startled world just witnessed a short bloody war between Russia and Georgia and where Moscow’s recognition of the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia has altered the geopolitical landscape in the region, perhaps permanently.

    Ironically, Israelis who condemn Iran and Syria for arming Hamas and Hezbullah have now become serious arms merchants selling an array of offensive weapons to Azerbaijan. They sell these arms at a time when Ilham Aliyev, the President of Azerbaijan, has repeatedly threatened to recapture Nagorno Karabakh by military force.

    Moreover, there are more than military sales binding Israel to Azerbaijan these days. On October 2, an Azeri journal, DAY AZ, published an interview with Joseph Shagal, a deputy in the Israeli Knesset and chairman of the Israel-Azerbaijan Inter-Parliamentary Group, who said, “Both economic associations and military alliances are possible with such a partner as Azerbaijan.” Shagal asserted that arms sales by Israel are strictly controlled by the government. He then added, “Israel will never supply arms to a country if this can affect the security of neighboring states.” This man has apparently been deaf to Aliyev’s many bellicose threats to reignite war with Nagorno Karabakh.

    As these developments have become public, one obvious question arises: Has the Bush Administration been complicit in these Israeli arms sales or just acquiescent? In either case, the result is the same. Admittedly the U.S. has issued tepid cautions against the use of force in the Caucasus, but these have not worked. Proof is the failed Georgian military episode in South Ossetia that upset regional stability and created fears of a new Cold War. What is required now is a resolute and unambiguous declaration that the United States opposes any new arms race in the Caucasus region and will oppose the use of force in unresolved conflicts. However, neither Vice President Richard Cheney nor Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte made such a statement during their back-to-back visits to Baku in September.

    Unfortunately, Israel’s growing economic ties and military support of Azerbaijan have now been followed by promises from the American xxxish Committee (AJC) to lobby for Azerbaijan. This commitment was announced in Baku by David Harris, AJC’s Chairman, who visited there at the invitation of Azeri President Ilhan Aliyev. With unashamed praise for upholding religious freedom, Harris said: “Religious tolerance in Azerbaijan is a model for the entire world.” Harris is either unaware or callous about Azerbaijan’s murderous pogroms of Armenians in Sumgait and Baku during the days when the Soviet Union was in the process of imploding. And he is apparently ignorant about the more recent cultural felony committed in Julfa by Azerbaijan’s military in which they destroyed hundreds of Khachkars, intricately-carved tombstones, in an Armenian cemetery that dates back to medieval times.

    Harris went further. He said, “The AJC has long appreciated the importance of Azerbaijan as a true friend of the United States and Israel.” He told reporters that he had discussed the Nagorno Karabakh issue at length and, in particular, the negotiating role of the OSCE’s Minsk Group. He promised to urge the United States to pay more attention “to improve the OSCE Minsk Group’s mission.” In light of Harris’s unabashed bias towards Baku, this promise will have to be carefully monitored. Finally, Harris paid tribute to his hosts with these words, “We have valued this opportunity to learn more about this strong ally in a challenging and critical region. We look forward to sharing our views about Azerbaijan’s key role when we return to the United States.”

    Thus, we witness a disturbing combination of arms sales to Azerbaijan, possible military ties with Israel, and vocal support for Baku by AJC, one of the largest and most influential xxxish advocacy groups in America. These developments are scarcely known or understood by the rank and file of the xxxish community. They are unaware of the way in which the intrusion of Israel and the AJC into the volatile region of the Caucasus heightens the possibility of war. They don’t realize that only a fragile ceasefire line separates Azeri and Armenian military forces and that arming and encouraging a saber rattling leader in Azerbaijan only fuels the possibility of a new war.

    What is required in these circumstances is full public disclosure and appeals to Israel, as well as the xxxish public in the United States to reverse these dangerous actions. This is a challenge that the government of Armenia cannot ignore and the Armenian Assembly of America (www.aaainc.org) and other advocacy organizations in the United States must address.
    Last edited by freakyfreaky; 10-16-2008, 09:43 PM.
    Between childhood, boyhood,
    adolescence
    & manhood (maturity) there
    should be sharp lines drawn w/
    Tests, deaths, feats, rites
    stories, songs & judgements

    - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Church sleeps with the enemy

      JINSA urges support for Azerbaijan defense.
      Finanznachrichten - Aktuelle Analysen, Marktberichte, Kommentare und Termine zu den Märkten und den Börsen der Welt. Informiert mit wallstreet:online.

      At Yahoo Finance, you get free stock quotes, up-to-date news, portfolio management resources, international market data, social interaction and mortgage rates that help you manage your financial life.


      I don't know about your friends, but my friends don't encourage and support other persons to sell my enemies, especially those enemies that may live next door to me, weapons that they can use against me.

      The history and future of Armenians is a non-issue for these American J-ewish organizations.
      Last edited by freakyfreaky; 10-17-2008, 08:09 PM.
      Between childhood, boyhood,
      adolescence
      & manhood (maturity) there
      should be sharp lines drawn w/
      Tests, deaths, feats, rites
      stories, songs & judgements

      - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Church sleeps with the enemy

        Originally posted by freakyfreaky View Post
        JINSA urges support for Azerbaijan defense.
        Finanznachrichten - Aktuelle Analysen, Marktberichte, Kommentare und Termine zu den Märkten und den Börsen der Welt. Informiert mit wallstreet:online.

        At Yahoo Finance, you get free stock quotes, up-to-date news, portfolio management resources, international market data, social interaction and mortgage rates that help you manage your financial life.


        I don't know about your friends, but my friends don't encourage and support other persons to sell my enemies, especially those enemies that may live next door to me, weapons that they can use against me.

        The history and future of Armenians is a non-issue for these American J-ewish organizations.
        No dear freaky it doesn't seem to be. However like the above important article that you posted above addresses these harmful exercises by the AJC's in the US and Israel by more than encouraging the murderous azeris by selling dangerous arms to them and practically encouraging them to create a huge war in the caucasus is certainly acting against democracy and the non-peaceful state in the caucasus. Therefore, most importantly Armenia must address these very harmful issues in a more forceful manner as well as by lobbying abroad.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Church sleeps with the enemy

          If indifference is the worst sin of all, then these American J-ewish Organizations are sinners when it comes to any sensitivity to the horrors that have befallen people other than their ancestors or Israelis; Right, Mr. Weasel? Yeah, that's right, indifference hurts both the victim and those who have become indifferent. http://pantagraph.com/articles/2008/...3100029293.txt (BTW, Mr. Weasel is a bloated, pompous turd; he is pulling the alarm on the wrong causes and should be telling the leaders of these organizations to mind their p's and q's including most of all that abomination to the J-ewry and humanity, Abe Foxman)

          Bottom line, these organizations are indifferent to the past and future of Armenians and are sinners for it. Their leaders are no different than Nazi leaders believing they were agents of civilization. Right, Mr. Weasel?

          Revise, manipulate, lie, repeat.
          Last edited by freakyfreaky; 10-20-2008, 09:01 PM.
          Between childhood, boyhood,
          adolescence
          & manhood (maturity) there
          should be sharp lines drawn w/
          Tests, deaths, feats, rites
          stories, songs & judgements

          - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

          Comment

          Working...
          X