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Is U.S. next?

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  • Is U.S. next?

    Is United States going to be the next country to recognize the Armenian genocide?

    Lately I’ve been reading a lot about the hostilities between Turkey and the States. I don’t know how it all started but I suppose it started when Turkey refused to send troops to Iraq or maybe with a new Iraqi government, Turkey has lost some of it’s importance to U.S. for control over the middle east. Whatever the reason is, it’s also changed the public's perception of each other in both countries. Just recently, Robert Pollock, a senior writer at the Wall Street Journal wrote an article about Turkey titled “The sick man of Europe-Again” full of criticism and anti-Turkish comments published in the Wall Streets Journal, which I posted below. Both Greek and Armenian communities living in the United States supported Pollock for his criticism of Turkey. Also last week, as I posted in the news section, the U.S. Ambassador to Armenia, John Evans, referred to the slaughter of the 1.5 million Armenians in Ottoman Turkey as “genocide" for the first time. Evans is a good friend of president Bush, and using the term “genocide” without further consideration is unlikely of him.

    So is this all silly games, or with their relations weakening, can U.S. finally officially recognize the genocide, since the only thing keeping it from recognizing the genocide was the good relations with Turkey which seems to me no longer exists. Any thoughts on this?

    And here is “The sick man of Europe” from the Wall Street Journal for ones interested:
    The Sick Man of Europe -- Again

    February 16, 2005; Page A14

    ANKARA, Turkey -- Several years ago I attended an exhibition in Istanbul. The theme was local art from the era of the country's last military coup (1980). But the artists seemed a lot more concerned with the injustices of global capitalism than the fate of Turkish democracy. In fact, to call the works leftist caricatures -- many featured fat capitalists with Uncle Sam hats and emaciated workers -- would have been an understatement. As one astute local reviewer put it (I quote from memory): "This shows that Turkish artists were willing to abase themselves voluntarily in ways that Soviet artists refused even at the height of Stalin's oppression."

    That exhibition came to mind amid all the recent gnashing of teeth in the U.S. over the question of "Who lost Turkey?" Because it shows that a 50-year special relationship, between longtime NATO allies who fought Soviet expansionism together starting in Korea, has long had to weather the ideological hostility and intellectual decadence of much of Istanbul's elite. And at the 2002 election, the increasingly corrupt mainstream parties that had championed Turkish-American ties self-destructed, leaving a vacuum that was filled by the subtle yet insidious Islamism of the Justice and Development (AK) Party. It's this combination of old leftism and new Islamism -- much more than any mutual pique over Turkey's refusal to side with us in the Iraq war -- that explains the collapse in relations.

    And what a collapse it has been. On a brief visit to Ankara earlier this month with Undersecretary of Defense Doug Feith, I found a poisonous atmosphere -- one in which just about every politician and media outlet (secular and religious) preaches an extreme combination of America- and Jew-hatred that (like the Turkish artists) voluntarily goes far further than anything found in most of the Arab world's state-controlled press. If I hesitate to call it Nazi-like, that's only because Goebbels would probably have rejected much of it as too crude.


    Consider the Islamist newspaper Yeni Safak, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's favorite. A Jan. 9 story claimed that U.S. forces were tossing so many Iraqi bodies into the Euphrates that mullahs there had issued a fatwa prohibiting residents from eating its fish. Yeni Safak has also repeatedly claimed that U.S. forces used chemical weapons in Fallujah. One of its columnists has alleged that U.S. soldiers raped women and children there and left their bodies in the streets to be eaten by dogs. Among the paper's "scoops" have been the 1,000 Israeli soldiers deployed alongside U.S. forces in Iraq, and that U.S. forces have been harvesting the innards of dead Iraqis for sale on the U.S. "organ market."

    It's not much better in the secular press. The mainstream Hurriyet has accused Israeli hit squads of assassinating Turkish security personnel in Mosul, and the U.S. of starting an occupation of Indonesia under the guise of humanitarian assistance. At Sabah, a columnist last fall accused the U.S. ambassador to Turkey, Eric Edelman, of letting his "ethnic origins" -- guess what, he's Jewish -- determine his behavior. Mr. Edelman is indeed the all-too-rare foreign-service officer who takes seriously his obligation to defend America's image and interests abroad. The intellectual climate in which he's operating has gone so mad that he actually felt compelled to organize a conference call with scientists from the U.S. Geological Survey to explain that secret U.S. nuclear testing did not cause the recent tsunami.

    Never in an ostensibly friendly country have I had the impression of embassy staff so besieged. Mr. Erdogan's office recently forbade Turkish officials from attending a reception at the ambassador's residence in honor of the "Ecumenical" Patriarch of the Orthodox Church, who resides in Istanbul. Why? Because "ecumenical" means universal, which somehow makes it all part of a plot to carve up Turkey.

    Perhaps the most bizarre anti-American story au courant in the Turkish capital is the "eighth planet" theory, which holds not only that the U.S. knows of an impending asteroid strike, but that we know it's going to hit North America. Hence our desire to colonize the Middle East.

    It all sounds loony, I know. But such stories are told in all seriousness at the most powerful dinner tables in Ankara. The common thread is that almost everything the U.S. is doing in the world -- even tsunami relief -- has malevolent motivations, usually with the implication that we're acting as muscle for the Jews.

    In the face of such slanders Turkish politicians have been utterly silent. In fact, Turkish parliamentarians themselves have accused the U.S. of "genocide" in Iraq, while Mr. Erdogan (who we once hoped would set for the Muslim world an example of democracy) was among the few world leaders to question the legitimacy of the Iraqi elections. When confronted, Turkish pols claim they can't risk going against "public opinion."

    All of which makes Mr. Erdogan a prize hypocrite for protesting to Condoleezza Rice the unflattering portrayal of Turkey in an episode of the fictional TV show "The West Wing." The episode allegedly depicts Turkey as having been taken over by a retrograde populist government that threatens women's rights. (Sounds about right to me.)

    In the old days, Turkey would have had an opposition party strong enough to bring such a government closer to sanity. But the only opposition now is a moribund Republican People's Party, or CHP, once the party of Ataturk. At a recent party congress, its leader accused his main challenger of having been part of a CIA plot against him. That's not to say there aren't a few comparatively pro-U.S. officials left in the current government and the state bureaucracies. But they're afraid to say anything in public. In private, they whine endlessly about trivial things the U.S. "could have done differently."

    Entirely forgotten is that President Bush was among the first world leaders to recognize Prime Minister Erdogan, while Turkey's own legal system was still weighing whether he was secular enough for the job. Forgotten have been decades of U.S. military assistance. Forgotten have been years of American efforts to secure a pipeline route for Caspian oil that terminates at the Turkish port of Ceyhan. Forgotten has been the fact that U.S. administrations continue to fight annual attempts in Congress to pass a resolution condemning modern Turkey for the long-ago Armenian genocide. Forgotten has been America's persistent lobbying for Turkish membership in the European Union.

    Forgotten, above all, has been America's help against the PKK. Its now-imprisoned leader, Abdullah Ocalan, was expelled from Syria in 1998 after the Turks threatened military action. He was then passed like a hot potato between European governments, who refused to extradite him to Turkey because -- gasp! -- he might face the death penalty. He was eventually caught -- with the help of U.S. intelligence -- sheltered in the Greek Embassy in Nairobi. "They gave us Ocalan. What could be bigger than that?" says one of a handful of unapologetically pro-U.S. Turks I still know.

    I know that Mr. Feith (another Jew, the Turkish press didn't hesitate to note), and Ms. Rice after him, pressed Turkish leaders on the need to challenge some of the more dangerous rhetoric if they value the Turkey-U.S. relationship. There is no evidence yet that they got a satisfactory answer. Turkish leaders should understand that the "public opinion" they cite is still reversible. But after a few more years of riding the tiger, who knows? Much of Ataturk's legacy risks being lost, and there won't be any of the old Ottoman grandeur left, either. Turkey could easily become just another second-rate country: small-minded, paranoid, marginal and -- how could it be otherwise? -- friendless in America and unwelcome in Europe.

    Mr. Pollock is a senior editorial page writer at the Journal.

    [CENTER][I][COLOR="Red"][B]"We must remind the Turkish Government that when they had Sultan Abdul Hamid, we had Andranik Pasha, Serob Aghbyur, and Gevorg Chaush. When they had Taleat pasha, we had Soghomon Tehleryan. New Hrants will be born, and our struggle will go on.” [/B][/COLOR][/I][/CENTER]

    [COLOR="Black"][CENTER][B]"Hrant Dink's murder is tragic proof that the Turkish government - through its campaign of denial, threats and intimidation against the recognition of the Armenian Genocide - continues to fuel the same hatred and intolerance that initially led to this crime against humanity more than 90 years ago."[/B][/CENTER][/COLOR]

  • #2
    I believe that the AG card is too important in the US hand to just throw away at this point. Does Bush Jr. know the AG happened, I am sure he does, although I doubt he cares at all about the event itself (Outside of cowboys' and indians' history - he is uninterested). However, every time Turkey gets a just to be too much out of line for the US, the presidential administrations play their most powerful card against weak Turkey - the Armenian Genocide card.

    And it always works. Turkey is so scared of its big brother - the US - that it falls right back into line the way the US wants it to. So why would the US throw out that very important, very effective card? I doubt they would, and I doubt they will. It would take someone in office superior to Bush, Clinton, Reagan - someone with REAL morals, someone for whom JUSTICE is more important than items of blackmail.

    Who knows if we will ever achieve such a person as our US president, but in the mean time blackmail will probably prevail, as long as Turkey allows that disgusting card to be played against its weak, cowardly government over and over again.

    [url][/url] - [COLOR="Red"]Armenian[/COLOR] [COLOR="Blue"]Genealogy[/COLOR] [COLOR="Orange"]Forum[/COLOR]


    • #3
      I think US need less and less turkey every day,cause as you can remember couple years back US had only their bases only in that region in turkey ,and turkey was getting a lot of stuff from US to allow that.look what is happening right now US has theis troops in Georgia ,Afgan,TAdzik,Uzbek,Azer,and couple more.SO the US does not have to deal with turkey anymore.


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tongue
        Lately I’ve been reading a lot about the hostilities between Turkey and the States. I don’t know how it all started but I suppose it started when Turkey refused to send troops to Iraq or maybe with a new Iraqi government, Turkey has lost some of it’s importance to U.S. for control over the middle east.
        Very true, to a certain degree.

        The United States has always kept Turkey at an arms length. However, Turko-American relations are quite deep and lucrative, thus, too valuable for Turkish or American politicians to cast aside. Washington and Ankara are in bed together not because they like each other but because they need each other. Regardless of various the diplomatic problems we have seen lately between the two capitols, the geo-political, or geo-strategic, formulations of the region dictate that Washington and Ankara be collaborating for quite some time within the near future; that is, barring any major *revolutionary* change within Turkey or America, or a major regional political shift.

        As of today, Turkey still plays a significant strategic role within the American State Department. Although, the Soviet Union is long gone, Russia still remains. Washington has always looked upon Russia with suspicion and considers Russia a major global competitor. Moreover, Washington sees Turkey, who fields one of the largest armies within the world, as an important buffer nation within the Middle East.

        The Republic of Armenia, with its tiny land mass, population and economy, not to mention landlocked and poor, does not arouse the interests of corporate America and the American defense industry as Turkey does. At best, all Armenians can hope to be in Washington is a diplomatic trump card that American might one day use against Turkey, nothing more.

        Also, for some reason Armenians still fail to realize that one of the major factors behind all anti-Armenian policies within the western world, especially America, is the Jewish establishment. I am not speaking of the many well meaning individual Jews who are friends of Armenians, I am speaking about all major Jewish institutions and organizations worldwide who conspire, quite openly, against the interests of the Armenian Republic and the Armenian Diaspora.

        There are many reasons why Jews today are the spearhead of anti-Armenian propaganda within America and there are many reasons why the Zionist State of Israel is close ally of Turkey. However, this is not the right place/threadto discuss it. Nonetheless, we will never fully grasp the political climate within Washington regarding us Armenians without first realizing the role Jews play within it.
        [B]A nation without Nationalism is like a body without a soul

        Garegin Njhdeh

        Those in possession of absolute power can not only prophesy and make their prophecies come true, but they can also lie and make their lies come true:


        [B]Origins of Human Civilization Within the Armenian Highlands:[/B] [url][/url]