Can anyone answer it?

[Hovik]

response to smileatlife

u speak in a nonsense way cant u give answers which are your creation or u will only say aaaaa turkish killed armenian turkish are bad my friend we are on 21 century dont forget

Actually the other posts were my creation, and I am sick of you asking the same questions that have already been answered. Use the search utility to read MY ANSWERS to your repeated questions.

You will also see that while I say "Turkish killed Armenian", I also have posts dedicated to "Turkish heroes" (the thread is in general discussions and called "forgotten heroes") who saved Armenian lives and tried to protest against their government for committing Genocide against their neighbors and fellow Ottomans. And based on this very fact, perhaps you should bite your tongue before saying things like suggesting I think "Turkish are bad". I honor and admire the few of you Turks in the last 90 years who either in the beginning were rescuing Armenians and advocating for peace, and in the present who are speaking out against the Turkish Governments campaign of denial (ie. Taner Ackham, Orhan Pamuk). These are mighty Turkish HEROS. ... and the rest of you... the lambs of the Turkish Government, you just follow Gul and Erdogan around kissing where the sun doesn't shine, and baaahhhh baaahhhh-ing to anyone who will listen the garbage they try to sell. Turks talk about Armenians being used - sure, some are, most aren't - and even those who are may allow themselves to be because of the fight for a greater benefit as a result. But Turks, oh Turks, look at how you are used as lambs by your politicians, regurgitating everything they spit on you. They use you as their slaves - you get nothing in return except an image of yourself throughout the world as - "The sick man of Europe - again..." Not much of a reward for selling your souls to a politician so that he - his friends, relatives and associates can continue sitting on their riches obtained directly or indirectly by the murder of a nation - all the while your country is so impoverished that the EU has to reconsider the effects of the lowest per-capita income country in the candidacy for membership. I pity you...

And you are correct - We ARE in the 21st century. This is exactly the reason the world is looking at you and wondering "what is their major malfunction?" These Turks say that the Turkish Republic had nothing to do with what the Ottoman Government did. So, the world wonders why you have a pride complex with admitting the atrocities that took place - committed by Ottomans. And then Turks go around saying "Armenians are trying to Slander the name of Turkey (by calling for recognition of a Genocide COMMITTED BY THE OTTOMANS). How does this all add up? You go back and forth, back and forth. You don't seem to know which is which, and can't tell the difference between yourselves - Republic of Turkey and the Ottoman Empire. Look how many decades it took the British to apologize for the Irish potato famine, which killed thousands upon thousands of people - Tony Blair finally did last year. Pride and a misplaced sense of nationalism caused it to be denied all that time. Or how about how Germany recently made a statement apologizing to the Armenian people for their contribution along side Turks to the Genocide of Armenians. That is how people behave in a civilized world - the 21st century. They admit their mistakes, they apologize and move on. So, since the 21st century is supposedly bringing about a new era of civilized society, we ask YOU - Turkey and Turks to step up to the plate - and join the rest of us in the 21st century, by recognizing what NOT TURKEY, but OTTOMANS did to commit the Armenian Genocide. We are all waiting on you. Its like when your mom told you to eat your lima beans when you were a kid - its there, its on your plate, it isn't going anywhere, the sooner you get it over with the sooner you can move on with life...

[Hovik]

unbelievable...

i can answer for him.u know torment well because your ancestors had done it so i wont tell.
in 1900s there were 1 million turk in greec bulgaria gurcia and othet tracia countries.how many now?what happened them?may be they killed each others.if the answer is this i think katolics,greek and armenian killed each others too

How disrespectful and immature. I can't believe what I am reading. I would rather you refrain from answering for ANYONE here. Check yourself.

The comment about my ancestors was completely uncalled for. That is extremely disrespectful and I am offended. You know nothing about my ancestors. You insult their suffering... nice. What a peaceful person you are. And your name suggests that you would behave much differently than what you are. I am disgusted by your words... you should be ashamed of yourself.

[human]

Where is peace now?

Hi everybody,

I am a Turkish citizen who still has armenian friends living in Turkey as Turkish citizens. I must confess I love them very much and they do love me too. You know, there are different nations living in Turkey. I am a Turk.

According to me, whatever happened in the past, it was about Ottoman Empire. Ottoman is the name of a family and that empire was not a nationalist state so no one can say that today's Turkish Citizens'history is coming from Ottoman Empire.

Ottomans were not my ancestors. They were not ancestors of Kurds, Arabs, Armenians or Jews living in today's Turkey. Ottoman Emperor was just a part of the history of these lands.

If you say that Turkish government must recognize Armenian Genocide, it means that all nations living in Turkey will recognize it, also my armenian friends who are Turkish Citizens.

The thing what happened in the past was about a state which is no longer existing. As a turkish citizen I am sure my grandfathers did not kill any armenians, why do ı need to apologize for something that is not releated with me.

There are still armenians, jews, christians, kurds, arabs living in this country. Why do they have to apologize for something which they did not do?

If you ask today's turkish government to apologize or recognize something happened in the past, it means that people who are not releated with this issue, including armenian Turkish Citizens will apologize for it.

Now, am I a potential enemy for you just because I live in Turkey? Are you brave enough to love me? Be sure that I love you because at least you are a human and whatever happenned in the past, I did nothing to you and you did nothing to me. All of you are my human brothers and sisters.

Hate gets bigger when you hate. Love gets bigger when you love.

I want to ask something. I really do not know the answer and I want to learn. Some of the provinces in the USA and some countries on the world recognized Armenian Genocide. Did the present Armenia State, who suffered from genocide in the past, recognize the genocide against american indians by the USA?

Best wishes to all of you from a Human.

[Tongue]

Hi everybody,


According to me, whatever happened in the past, it was about Ottoman Empire. Ottoman is the name of a family and that empire was not a nationalist state so no one can say that today's Turkish Citizens'history is coming from Ottoman Empire.

Even if you don't think Turkey is the successor of the Ottoman Empire, that still doesn't justify it's denial of the genocide.

Ottomans were not my ancestors. They were not ancestors of Kurds, Arabs, Armenians or Jews living in today's Turkey. Ottoman Emperor was just a part of the history of these lands.

Well, they sure were ancestors of SOMEBODY! lol

If you say that Turkish government must recognize Armenian Genocide, it means that all nations living in Turkey will recognize it, also my armenian friends who are Turkish Citizens.

Your Armenian friends living in Turkey are mainly the descendants of survivors, so what do you mean "Armenians in Turkey need to recognize it too"?

The thing what happened in the past was about a state which is no longer existing. As a turkish citizen I am sure my grandfathers did not kill any armenians, why do ı need to apologize for something that is not releated with me.

It doesn't matter, Ottoman Empire no longer exists true, but that doesn't mean Turkey can go on spreading lies about our genocide, call it a war, blame it on Armenian rebels, and state the total deaths to be less that 200,000! That's just disgusting. And no one is blaming this on your grandpa.

There are still armenians, jews, christians, kurds, arabs living in this country. Why do they have to apologize for something which they did not do?

Oh no... Armenians don't need to apologize... do you understand logic? We want Turkish government to acknowledge the genocide and stop the denial. We want the people to recognize the genocide, that doesn't mean every single Jew/turk/kurd living in Turkey needs to apologize. Recognition is different from apology. There were more than 2,000,000 Armenians in Ottoman Empire before 1915. The number is around 40,000 today! Where did they go? If you go to any of the former Armenian villages, you'll see many Armenian churches and monuments abandoned. Which means there should have been enough peole there for them to build it. But now, you can hardly and I mean hardly find any! So what happened? We want your government to acknowledge the genocide and apologize to us for it's contiuous denial.

If you ask today's turkish government to apologize or recognize something happened in the past, it means that people who are not releated with this issue, including armenian Turkish Citizens will apologize for it.

I guess you are mistaking the meaning of "recognize" with "apology". lol

Now, am I a potential enemy for you just because I live in Turkey? Are you brave enough to love me? Be sure that I love you because at least you are a human and whatever happenned in the past, I did nothing to you and you did nothing to me. All of you are my human brothers and sisters.

We have absolutely no problem with you or any other Turk living in Turkey. It's Turkey's government that we don't like, not people.

I want to ask something. I really do not know the answer and I want to learn. Some of the provinces in the USA and some countries on the world recognized Armenian Genocide. Did the present Armenia State, who suffered from genocide in the past, recognize the genocide against american indians by the USA?

American Indians genocide is not denied by any country, why? Because the United States, recognizes it itself. So why would Armenia, or any other country, want to deny it when the country responsible for doesn't? hehe! You see my point?

[Tongue]

I can recognize the genocide but it is not important. When you claim there was something you have to prove it with proper documents. Claimer have to prove it. Send your documents to Turkey and all of the World and then Turkey will have to recognize it. It is very simple.

The funny thing is Armenians are the ones with all the proof, not Turks.

Is this site going to be if the Armenian genocide wasn't a controversial subject? Is there anyone discussing genocide of Jews? No. It is very clear. No one can raise an objection against it.

This site was a site about the Armenian genocide until some Turks signed up and started the denial threads. I don't want to ban them, becaust I believe they are entitled to their opinion, though sometimes it gets out of control and they start cussing our Armenian member out , but by banning them, nothing will be solved. So here is the story of our site! It's called democracy, we're not trying to shut people's opinions, something you're not familiar with I suppose.

And to answer your question about the Jewish holocaust, lets see if this will make it clear: (I didn't write it by the way)

Why is the Armenian Genocide the "forgotten genocide," and the Holocaust so much in the public mind? Just think for a moment what would it be like if all of Turkey had been occupied by the Allies and war crimes trials had been brought to a successful conclusion. The episode would be widely followed, the chief perpetrators punished, and restitution made to the survivors. The survivors would then urge the world to remember their tragedy and seek to prevent such a tragedy from happening ever again.

And just think for a moment if the Nazis survived World War II and there were no Nuremberg trials for the perpetrators of the Jewish Holocaust. The Nazis, just as the Turkish government today, would deny the Holocaust and its memory might fade into history. The Jews of course would demand recognition and attempt to keep their tragedy in the public eye, but most of the public would forget over time and the Holocaust might be known today as the "forgotten Holocaust."

The Turkish government has spent millions of dollars on public relations experts attempting to eradicate from the public mind a memory of the Armenian Genocide or at least to cast doubt in the public mind. This attempt is made easier by the fact that few Americans today know anything about Turkey, Turkish history, and most certainly Turkish geography. The Turkish government does not have to disprove the Armenian Genocide, it merely needs to cast doubt on what happened in 1915-1923.

Their job of propaganda is made easier by the inclination of most Americans not to think evil of anyone and always give the accused the benefit of a doubt. Genocide is so ultimately an evil that there are not two sides to it, and those who perpetrate it, or their legal successor, must face the consequences of their actions. The greatest aid to the denialists are the nice people who don't want to take sides.

Fortunately, there are now persons in Turkey who are speaking out about the Armenian Genocide, but the more these few speak out, the more the reactionaries make outlandish claims. At the time of this writing, early April 2005, there seem to be indications that the Turkish government will make some kind of simple form of confession in the nature of, "Oh, we don't see it as Genocide but you may call it what you will."

So, what do you think?

[human]

Hi everybody,
Anatolia is a place where three continents are united. Because of this, so many people coming from different parts of asia, europe and africa passed over here and some of them stayed here. This is why there are so many different ethnic groups living on this land. All these people used to fight with each other some times and used to live in peace together sometimes. This was very normal. In the begginning of 20th century main communities living in Anatolia were greeks, turks, armenians, kurds and arabs. For several centuries they all lived in peace, but what happened then and things suddenly changed? Everything happened that time was a game played by western emperialist countries. They made greeks and turks, armenians and turks fight with each other just to kill the sick man of Europe that time. They used greeks and armenians in the past and after the republic they tried to use kurds against turks. Why nations who lived with turks in the past in peace have started to be enemies for them? The same game was played in middle east and still being played. Why are there three counties called India, pakistan and Bangladesh although they are all Indians? Why are there several arabic countries although they are all the same? What is happening now between Chechens and Russians? Who are feeding them? Who has fed Greeks, armenians and kurds in the past?

During the first world war, this game was again played by the same countries. Yes, I know that hundred thousends of armenians had been moved from one part of a state to another part of the same state and people died during this travel. I am a person who is against understanding of Ottoman Empire, but they did what they could do during a big war to save the land. I am sure they were also used by western countries and brainwashed to do such thing to armenians.

Do not forget that founders of Turkish republic have also fought against Ottoman State not only against countries who have tried to divide this land into pieces. Founder of this country Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was sentenced to death by Ottoman State and Ottoman State forces and Turkish Republic Army have fought with each other after the world war. Today's Turkey is not representing Ottoman Empire and Turkish Government has nothing to do with Ottomans' silly bussinesses. As a person living in this country, I can say that Republic of Turkey is a democratic country which is not belonged to Turks, but belonged to all Turkish citizens who has different races and beliefs. This country is not an islamic country. These two facts are guaranteed by Turkish laws and no government can change these unless the state is changed.

I really wonder that what happens to me if I go to Armenia, Greece or southern Cyprus as a Turk. However I am completely sure that nothing happens to you or greeks or anybodyelse in anatolia. I can feel the unbelievable hate in some peoples' heart, not all of them. This is a hate which a normal homo saphien can not handle or have. Somebody who has this kind of hate must be something out of human, a creature. I am sure anatolia is safer for greeks and armenians who come here. Anatolian blend of colours and beliefs has nothing to do wrong with them. I am among these people and I do not see hate against armenians and greeks.

I really can not understand how a person can be so brainwashed like this. Hate is frightening me. I want peace for all of us.

I love armenians and greeks, even the ones who want to kill me. I have already forgiven those who killed anatolian people (not Turks) in east during the first world war and in west after the first war.

All the best

[imported_nemesis]

Hi everybody,
I really wonder that what happens to me if I go to Armenia, Greece or southern Cyprus as a Turk.

All the best

Nothing would happen to you as nothing has happened to Ibrahim Kutluay(captain of the turkish national team/basketball)who's been playing in Greece for the past 5 seasons. In fact he's liked by everybody and it's known to the public and fans as "Ibo"

People don't have issues with other people it's the governments that do..and this is a forum where past mistakes are being discussed in general

There's true in what you say however responsibility cannot be denied by shifting blame to others...
True governments are being provoced by outside powers that have emperialist ambitions this has always been the case .However that does not give the right to a government to kill its own citizens under no excuse

[human]

In my last text, I talked about the hate in some brainwashed peoples' hearts. I know most of the greeks has nothing to do with Turkey. Problems between Greeks and Turkey are more political government issues than problems between nations. I feel very happy when I see greek tourist groups in Turkey especially nowadays when we are at the point of breaking a record of tourist number in this country. There are many turkish groups going on holiday in Greece. But did you watch the basketball match between panathinaikos and Efes in Greece last month and see the banners insulting and cursing turks although İbrahim Kutluay is a Turk playing in that match for panathinaikos.

I see the same hate in some armenians' heart, a hate which is leading you to loose your control when you are trying to support an idea. Especially I see this hate in Armenians living in USA or other countries out of Armenia who are under strong influence of diasporas. It is very easy to make someone away from home to believe and be a fanatic. I can understand you and your situation. I can understand you living abroad even though I am living in peace in my country. It is normal that most of you (not all) are crazy fanatics. It is the same for Turks living in Germany. Turks living in Germany are more and more conservative than Turish citizens living in Turkey and mostly they are not representing this country. You, the ones living abroad, are also not reperesenting your country. You are more conservative and fanatic. Can anyone believe that some of you are dreaming to have some land from Turkey. On the lands that you are dreaming about, more than 10 million Turkish citizens are living. What will you do if you have these lands back? A genocide? ))) Fanatics always make me laugh because they are poor guys. I hate fanatics even they are turkish citizens.

If it will bring hate, I do not want races, religions. We humans always fought for races and religions. I do not care the race or the religion of the people reading these sentences.

[imported_nemesis]

In my last text, I talked about the hate in some brainwashed peoples' hearts. I know most of the greeks has nothing to do with Turkey. Problems between Greeks and Turkey are more political government issues than problems between nations. I feel very happy when I see greek tourist groups in Turkey especially nowadays when we are at the point of breaking a record of tourist number in this country. There are many turkish groups going on holiday in Greece. But did you watch the basketball match between panathinaikos and Efes in Greece last month and see the banners insulting and cursing turks although İbrahim Kutluay is a Turk playing in that match for panathinaikos.

I see the same hate in some armenians' heart, a hate which is leading you to loose your control when you are trying to support an idea. Especially I see this hate in Armenians living in USA or other countries out of Armenia who are under strong influence of diasporas. It is very easy to make someone away from home to believe and be a fanatic. I can understand you and your situation. I can understand you living abroad even though I am living in peace in my country. It is normal that most of you (not all) are crazy fanatics. It is the same for Turks living in Germany. Turks living in Germany are more and more conservative than Turish citizens living in Turkey and mostly they are not representing this country. You, the ones living abroad, are also not reperesenting your country. You are more conservative and fanatic. Can anyone believe that some of you are dreaming to have some land from Turkey. On the lands that you are dreaming about, more than 10 million Turkish citizens are living. What will you do if you have these lands back? A genocide? ))) Fanatics always make me laugh because they are poor guys. I hate fanatics even they are turkish citizens.

If it will bring hate, I do not want races, religions. We humans always fought for races and religions. I do not care the race or the religion of the people reading these sentences.

Previously I just wanted to answer your question because you assumed that you would be harmed had you gone to visit the places you mentioned. I tried to explain to you that this would not be the case giving you an example..
Again I further told you that people love each other its the governments that don't....
Despite this you took upon yourself to make more assumptions about who I am who I represent and what my ambitions are ...you called me crazy fanatic ..you asssumed that I was Greek and wanted some land from you and you gave an example of a basketball game....
I did watch the game and I saw the banners I also watched the second game and saw the banners in Turkey...I also watched many Turks cursing Ibrahim for wearing a pana jersey....I happened to see a soccer game where a banner was hanged after which Fenerbahce was penalized for it...so you see people are all the same everywhere...
Also where do you get the idea that I'm living outside of my country?
Take care and don't misinterpret messages my previous message was a peaceful one

[human]

Hi Nemesis,
My reply was not exactly a reply to what you say as an answer to me.
I did not think that you are a greek and I did not think you are living abroad. I just talked generally not personally to you. I am sorry if you misunderstood me. I also have nothing wrong personal. When you recheck what I have written I also criticised Turks living abroad and said I do not like fanatics even they are Turks. Please (again saying to everyone who reads this message not to Nemesis personally) I am not talking as a Turk. I am talking as a citizen living in the Republic of Turkey. Two weeks ago, I traveled to west of the country and visited most of the ancient cities and historical places there. The land is peacefull and is a blend of cultures. I saw the roman cities, very old greek buildings, ottoman buildings etc. Many of us are coming from those greeks, romans, ottomans and others originally. How can I reject that hundreds years ago my ancestors were possibly romans, greeks or Turks. It is also possible that we are brothers and sisters when we look back. More impotant thing is that I do not care. I live in this country and I feel quite good about it. Only thing I want is peace. I hate the hate.

Nemesis not you, but some has written frightening things in different forums in this site. For example there is a greek who has written that Turkey invaded Cyprus in the name of god ( jihad ). This only makes me laugh. This is a very stupid sentence. An armenian has written we are serving to satan. Has anybody seen the churches in this country, or mosques or sinagogs? We are keeping all the religions free in this country. Do you have an islamic work of art in your countries? We are making sculptures of Mother Mary and holly saints who lived on this land. I can not understand how someone can blame us for working for satan or fighting for jihad.