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How should Turkey face genocide charges?

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  • #1

    How should Turkey face genocide charges?

    Armenian News Network / Groong
    [Next Article][Previous Article][Main Index]

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    How should Turkey face genocide charges?
    From: "Katia M. Peltekian" <[email protected]>
    Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:45:43 -0700 (PDT)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    KurdishMedia, UK
    June 23 2005

    How should Turkey face genocide charges?

    23/06/2005 Bianet.org - By Tolga Korkut

    Academics urge the government prepare "facing the past" vis-a-vis
    "Armenian Genocide" charges in the Ottoman Empire. Macar advises the
    state give up denial, while Caglar points to the fact that Turkey
    needs to consider international community.

    BIA (Istanbul) - As Turkish leaders angrily rebuff the recent German
    Parliament decision calling Turkey recognize `Armenian Genocide' in
    1915, political scientists Prof. Baskin Oran of the Ankara University
    and Associate Prof. Elcin Macar of the Yildiz Technical University,
    are of the opinion that German parliament's is a political call,
    which bears no legal obligation for the Turkish Republic.

    According to Turkish academics the main question here is: What does
    it mean for the Turkish Republic to take historic responsibility for
    the 1915 Armenian expulsion.

    However Prof Bakir Caglar of Istanbul University is of the opinion
    that `recognition of genocide' would bring in its wake certain `legal
    responsibilities' for Turkey.

    Facing the past

    Recalling refusals and threats by the government directed at
    academics who urge for an open discussion of the issue, Turkey has to
    stop preventing public discussions on the Armenian problem, Macar,
    told bianet.

    "The state has to give up claiming that such a thing never happened,
    embracing this as the official argument, and being a side in the
    discussion,' said Macar. `If you are for leaving the issue to
    historians, then you should really leave it to historians. You can't
    prevent discussions.'

    `Saying that `we have opened the archives' means `let us look into
    the truth because we don't know the truth.' But the Turkish state is
    continuing to act as if it knows the truth,' said Macar.

    The German parliament has made the following calls on the German
    government:

    * The German government should help the Turkish Grand National
    Assembly, the
    Turkish government and the Turkish society to face its past,

    * It should help set up a commission of Turkish and Armenian
    historians,

    * It should have the archives, which were sent from Germany to
    Turkey,
    opened to public,

    * It should demand that the canceled Armenian conference takes place,


    * It should contribute to the normalization of relations between
    Turkey and
    Armenia.

    Oran: How can members of the `deep state' in 1915 be defended?

    Baskin Oran of Ankara University argues that the `individuals, not
    institutions or states, are responsible for the genocide.'

    Oran underlined the fact that the Turkish Republic is the state which
    demolished the Ottoman Empire: `The Turkish Republic has not taken
    upon itself anything of the Ottoman Empire, except for the `Duyun-u
    Umumiye, the public debt owed by the Empire to individuals. And it
    was normal for the Republic to take that debt upon itself. For,
    otherwise it would have remained outside the international system.'

    `I don't understand why the Republic of Turkey, who has crushed the
    Ottoman Empire, is now coming into the defense of the `Teskilati
    Mahsusa' (Special Forces) henchmen of the `deep state' of 1915, and
    the deep state itself,' said Oran. `The Republic of Turkey has no
    legal responsibility.'

    Apologizing

    According to Elcin Macar, Turks may apologize for the deportation of
    Armenians in 1915 and express that this was a mistake of their
    ancestors.

    `If Turkey apologizes, it would be in the form of: `We apologize for
    what our ancestors have done,'' said Macar.

    According to Oran however, the state must first apologize to the
    Turkish public.

    `If the Republic of Turkey is going to apologize, it should first
    apologize to the Turkish public,' said Oran. `For having masked the
    issue for all these decades, for not discussing it, and for banning
    the discussions.'

    International law issues

    According to Prof. Bakir Caglar of the Political Sciences Department
    of Istanbul University, settling accounts with the past isn't
    something that can be done on one's own. `This can only be possible
    through means and groundwork of international law,' said Caglar.

    Caglar said in the face of increasing number of parliament decisions
    across Europe the issue gains three dimensions in terms of
    international law:

    * The recognition of the genocide becoming a legal responsibility.

    * The issue of insurance: The international companies that assumed
    the insurances of Armenian property are still operational. The legal
    procedure on the issue is continuing in the United States.

    *Property in land: It is certain that real estate belonging to
    Armenians were seized. This is a legal problem for Turkey. (TK)

    BIA News Centre
    21/06/2005



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    "All truth passes through three stages:
    First, it is ridiculed;
    Second, it is violently opposed; and
    Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
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  • #2
    Gavur, welcome to the forum, and thank you for the article. Please post news items under the "Armenian Genocide News" section in the future. Again, welcome, I look forward to your posts.
    Hovik

    Comment

    • #3
      *Property in land: It is certain that real estate belonging to
      Armenians were seized. This is a legal problem for Turkey. (TK)

      I don't remember its date but Turkey gave the some period of time to Armenians for claiming their properties. However it expired, so the problem legally ended.

      Comment

      • #4
        Hello Cosmos, welcome to the forum. I am interested to know what "period" Turkey gave for Armenians to claim their property. I have never heard of such a thing. Please cite your sources so that we can learn more about this...
        Hovik

        Comment

        • #5
          Hovik I don't know whether you know Hrant Dink, an Armenian journalist and a Turkish citizen. I watched him a few time on Turkish TVs. He changed my mind about Armenian genocide I learned many things from his speech that no one have mentioned about such a things among Turkish before.

          A few mounths ago I had read a feature of him in Turkish newspaper 'Radikal' made by Nese Duzel. He was answering her questions, somewhere 'Turkey gave a period of time to Armenians for getting back their properties' (I think he meant payment) so the problem have legally ended but not completely finished'. He said. His words were like this at least their meaning.

          Comment

          • #6
            I remember my grandmother telling me after the TR was formed goverment asked anyone that was displaced to comeback and reclaim their homes(those that were still alive ofcourse) she told me she was to afraid to go back she thought this was probably another trap
            "All truth passes through three stages:
            First, it is ridiculed;
            Second, it is violently opposed; and
            Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

            Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by cosmos
              A few mounths ago I had read a feature of him in Turkish newspaper 'Radikal' made by Nese Duzel. He was answering her questions, somewhere 'Turkey gave a period of time to Armenians for getting back their properties' (I think he meant payment) so the problem have legally ended but not completely finished'. He said. His words were like this at least their meaning.
              When was this? Definitely not recently. I also never heard of this before... I would really appreciate if it you could find a website or something that mentions it. Anyhow, if it happened right after the genocide, most of the people were dead so I suppose the government expected their souls or their little orphan kids (if alive and Armenian!!) to go back and reclaim property. Besides, it's obvious the survivors, after going through what they had been through and seeing what they saw, wouldn't even consider the thought of going back to that hell-land for money.

              Comment

              • #8
                Yes, I am aware of Mr. Dink, and perhaps I could e-mail him and get some more information on what he was talking about in that interview. I don't think it would be a very fair policy - not a surprise coming from the TR. Some Armenians have uncovered or recently inherited documents whose existence was previously unknown, that certify ownership of properties in the Ottoman Empire that hadn't been claimed prior. It would be very unfair to not allow them to make claim to these, and recieve fair market value for them. Easy to forget who we are dealing with when talking about such fairness or justice - they're turks, they know No such thing!

                Comment

                • #9
                  Fairness and Justice for Turks

                  As I understand fairness and justice is only for Armenians.

                  Do you have any plan for compensating the destroyed Turkish and Muslim villages/towns/provinces.

                  Do you have property compensations for those thousands of Azeris cleansed from Erevan and Armenia?

                  Do you have compensation plans for 800,000 Azeris who are forced out of their homes in 1990s?

                  And one more TINY detail, the Armenians that returned from relocation in 1918s-1919s who later fought against Turks in MArash/Adana/Urfa along with the French. Should their propery be assumed the same as the ones who are subjected only to relocation? Because you are saying, everything started in 1915 and finished. No mention of these details. They say the so called genocide continued from 1915-23. People turned their homes in south and south east regions and then later left after their beloved France retreated.

                  Yes for the property of Armenians who were living in areas away from the battle zone(especially those live in central anatolia and central western anatolia), we should examine those for compensation.

                  One more other TINY detail, every propery of relocated Armenian has been archived by Ottomans, by name and location. Government also gave the amount of money for those properties that can not be guaranteed their safety etc.

                  If the intention of the government was not accept them back why should they bother to document all of these properties? And an additional TINY detail, why should a genocider state document the properties of such people?

                  And one more question: Did Armenia documented the properties of Azeris of KArabag and other Azeris ethnically cleansed? Did Armenia documented the properties of thousands Azeris of Yerevan ?

                  Today , at least the Armenians here(I assume they reflect official Armenian stand point), even do not recognize the Azeri existence in Yerevan/Armenia in past, as they do not recognize the Azeri existence of KArabag.

                  This is why I say the word genocide is used for political purposes, and hide these crimes of past. When there is a so-called genocide who can claim justice for the people on so called genocide side.

                  This is why I say the word genocide is used for revenge. They try to use the sympathy stemming out from this very word genocide to find excuse for the cruelties and barbarism against the Azeri's who share the same ethnicity with Turks. WHo can ask for justice right? They are trying to PREVENT a FUTURE GENOCIDE.


                  I am not questioning directly your sincerity Hovik, but I question your leaders' and president(if you share same, yes I do question yours too).

                  The word Genocide is obviously more than genocide

                  Originally posted by Hovik
                  Yes, I am aware of Mr. Dink, and perhaps I could e-mail him and get some more information on what he was talking about in that interview. I don't think it would be a very fair policy - not a surprise coming from the TR. Some Armenians have uncovered or recently inherited documents whose existence was previously unknown, that certify ownership of properties in the Ottoman Empire that hadn't been claimed prior. It would be very unfair to not allow them to make claim to these, and recieve fair market value for them. Easy to forget who we are dealing with when talking about such fairness or justice - they're turks, they know No such thing!

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bugra
                    Do you have any plan for compensating the destroyed Turkish and Muslim villages/towns/provinces.
                    WHY DO YOU LIE SO MUCH? WHAT TURKISH VILLAGES AND TOWNS? Yerevan was part of the persian empire, yes but don't throw the turks in. Persian is different from Turk. Ottoman Empire captured Yerevan from the Persian Empire in 1582, but it was recaptured by the Persians in 1604. Yerevan was under the Ottoman empire for only 20 years but still the majority of the people living there remained to be persian and Armenian not turk. Not all muslims are turks.



                    Originally posted by Bugra
                    Do you have compensation plans for 800,000 Azeris who are forced out of their homes in 1990s?
                    Yes, we do. Armenian republic is willing to return all the Azeri lands except for Karabakh and the small village connecting it to Armenia only if Azerbaijan agrees to Karabakh's independence.


                    Now you tell me... what is happening to Arakelots monastery in Sassoon? Surb Bardughimeos church of Van? Khtskonq monastery of Kars? Arakelots church of Mush? Why are they wiping out traces of Armenian presence in Turkey? Don't just say turkish villages and towns that Armenia destroyed. name a mosque, name a town, name something that Armenia (not persian empire or soviet union) has destroyed. And please get back to me with answers to my questions about all the monuments I mentioned above.

                    Comment

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