The ingathering of Armenian exiles...

[UKTurk]

What are you talking about?
In the USSR every citizen had a job, there was no unemployment.
The only difference was that a doctor and a waiter would get paid the same.

[Kharpert]

It is true that Armenia has seen severe setbacks that it did not see under the Soviet Union, but there's no turning back now. Communism is dead. It's time for Armenia to embrace the capitalist (or at the very least socialist) system.

[Joseph]

I've been to Armenia twice, once in 1993 and again in 2001. Things have gotten better for the most part but you can see life is still difficult. What I can say is that Armenians are an industrious people which is very evident, I know they will make it. Communism may have provided jobs but it destroyed the Armenian spirit. 70 years of Soviet rule will take an additional decade or two to reverse but they are on there way. It's sad the so many people have left but if things get better, they will head back and it should also be known that probably the biggest segment of people who left are middle aged men who fled to Moscow. Although Armenians were educated during the Soviet period one of the effects was that many of their educations/ and emplyment backgrounds are unfortunately obsolete...how many nuclear physists does Armenia need? Armenia will need to train entrepenuers, accountants, IT, education, etc. Just my opinion.

[Vos]

dual citizens

According to the concept of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation,
presented on April 6, dual citizens cannot be taxed twice or serve
in the army of two countries. Thus, if a Diaspora Armenian wishes
to become citizen of the Republic of Armenia, remaining citizen of
another country, he needs to decide which country he is going to pay
taxes to or serve in the army. Of course, if he has already served
in the army, in accordance with the concept of Dashnaktsutiun he
will not have to serve in the Armenian army after becoming citizen
of Armenia. As to paying taxes, according to the ARF, a citizen
must pay taxes and serve in the army of the country where he lives
permanently. Thus, Diaspora Armenians becoming citizens of Armenia,
pay taxes to the country where they live. However, in that case,
they will not have all the rights of the citizens of Armenia because
they fail to fulfill all the duties of Armenian citizens.

[Vos]

Manditory Service Will Not Work

MANDITORY SERVICE WILL NOT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For those of you who are interested in this big kahunah here, I'd like to inform you of my background.
I am a Diaspora Armenian , as well as a US Marine
After a stimulating (sarcasism) 5 years in the Marines, I can honestly say
that I would not want to add on another 2 years of scrubing toilets
to my life. I passed that wonderful stage when I was promoted to
Corporal. On the same note, How would that work for Military
to Military Diaspora? A General in the U.S. Army, is going to
become a 2nd Lieutenant AGAIN in the Armenian Army? Or even
worse, if like many other foreign countries not recognizing a
diaspora's education, then in laymen's terms....ARMENIA!!,
get ready for 1.2 million enlisted privates.!
If this is the case, then all Diaspora Armenian would be reconized
by their education!???????!
It would not work like this by my mind. Now, don't allow my views
to become misenterpreted, In no-lack of my patriotism would I
ever disagaree with a man bending backwards for his motherland.
I beleive that the delicate decision of how Diaspora Armenians
would execute their mandatory service should be determined by
a board's evaluation of any mitigating situation of each individual's
work expeirence, current family situation, income, and most
importantly, their education. If the Armenian Government would
not honor a Diaspora's education, but yet -possibly- honor their
military expeirence as a matter for being exempt from performing
manditory military service then this idea of MANDITORY SERVICE
is possibily a potental no no.

ROGER THAT!

A major change to Armenia's military.... Active and Reserve.
And will their be enough funding for the Reserves?

After independence the Soviet-era Volunteer Society for Assistance
to the Army, Air Force, and Navy, part of the centralized
reserve system of the Soviet army, was renamed the Defense Technical
Sports Society or (DTSS). The new system trains personnel for specific
military tasks in the Armenian forces, whereas previous training was a
general preparation for unknown assignments elsewhere in the Soviet Union.
In 1993 the society's schools gave instruction in thirteen military occupational
specialties, including tank driving and repair, radiotelegraphy, and artillery
and small arms repair.

Like those of the regular military, the facilities of the reserves were cut back
sharply at independence. At least nine reserve training facilities, including one
technical school, were reassigned within the Ministry of Defense or to another
ministry. The Defense Technical Sports Society supports itself by selling military
gear and sports vehicles produced in its plants; it has established advisory
relations with defense technical societies in other CIS countries.


All I can say is..... "You wait, and You'll Seee!!!!"
VOS, out


_________________
Treat every day a gift, that's why they "today" the "present"..........

[Kharpert]

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of dual citizenship in the first place.

[Hovik]

Armen Aivazian calls to make repatriation key goal of Armenians worldwide

It's about time our intellectuals speak up about this...

Armen Aivazian calls to make repatriation key goal of Armenians worldwide

http://www.araratfoundation.org/email/

Armen Aivazian is a professor of the American University of Armenia. Below are extracts from his report entitled "Forgotten Guarantees of Armenia-Diaspora Efficient Cooperation" presented to the conference.
Today, when the 15th anniversary of Armenia's independence is celebrated and the third Armenia- Diaspora forum starts in Yerevan, it is time to assess once again the current state and development prospects of Armenia-Diaspora relations.
It should be noted with regret that the ideological, organizational and financial bases for Armenia- Diaspora efficient cooperation have not been created yet.
In the ideological sense, the image of Armenia has been turned upside down. Armenia is no longer viewed by the Diaspora as the LAST SHELTER AND ONLY HOMELAND of the Armenians spread all over the world. Armenia is mostly viewed as a "disaster zone" that should be pitied and financially assisted. The perception and sense of homeland of the Armenians living in their homeland has been also distorted as a result of their upbringing in the Soviet time and those great sufferings they endured during the period of independence, as well as due to the Diaspora's position considering the idea of returning to homeland as unserious. The existence of a large and prosperous Diaspora contributes to emigration, because on the one hand, the Diaspora provides the Armenians living in homeland with a good example of how one can prosper outside Armenia, on the other hand, it makes it easier for them to find a job and get used to new conditions abroad. The Diaspora also gives a psychological self-justification to those who decided to live abroad while retaining elements of patriotism, providing them with a self-deceiving formula that "one can be of more use to homeland from there".
In reality, Armenia longs for not so much financial as moral and psychological support that would be based on pride and respect rather than on pity for homeland. Because the Armenian homeland is not only what is currently visible and tangible but also the history, culture, civilization, dignity and certainly the territory.
The best and most correct way of assisting one 's homeland as much as possible is to return to homeland. It was no accident that only 2-3 days after Israel's unsuccessful operations during the latest war in Lebanon about 800 Jews went to live in Israel. Since 2000, 13,179 Jews emigrated to Israel from the US alone. One of the objectives of such actions is to give the Israelis confidence in the future of their country.
What about us? No such action has been organized by the state or any Diasporan organization, although the war ended 12 years ago.
The problem is not about funds: tens of millions of dollars were obtained for asphalt repairs. The problem is not in the lack of patriotism among the Diasporan Armenians either: there are hundreds and thousands of Diasporan Armenians who would prefer the spiritual aspect to the material one, the hardship and difficulties in homeland to false comforts abroad, educating one's children in the native language to foreign education, and the participation in the Armenians' struggle to inevitable assimilation of future generations. Such people make up a small minority of the Diaspora, but there are thousands of them.
The fact is that the Armenian state and the Diasporan Armenian elite, reject, for various reasons, the very idea of returning to homeland, sometimes even struggling against this idea in a deliberate and persistent way.
Today the so-called "hayapahpanum" (preservation of the Armenian national identity) is the main objective on the agenda of most Diasporan Armenian organizations. Many in Armenia also see the meaning of the Diaspora's existence in the national identity preservation. But the goal of preserving the Armenian national identity remains unclear.
The goal (also the major means) of ensuring the existence of the Armenian Diaspora, that is, of preserving the Armenian national identity is to reunte on our own lands under the patronage of the independent statehood, for the time being in today's Armenia ( in the territory under control of the Armenian armed forces), in the future - also in historical Armenia's other parts to be liberated.
There is a sense in preserving the national identity only if it helps with the solution of national problems. During this historic period, among such problems are the building and strengthening of the Armenian state, the return to Homeland ("Hayahavak"), and the protection of the violated national rights of the Armenians.
Considering the national identity preservation as a self-purpose (which is done by many Diasporan Armenians) weakens the key elements of the identity preservation. Particularly, the political consciousness of the Armenians is deprived of the opportunity to see the field of the nation's survival and the everyday objective Armenian- Turkish/Azerbaijani struggle there.
Therefore, the organizations of Armenia and the Diaspora should do considerable propaganda work among the Armenians with the aim of restoring the weakened idea and sense of homeland and the awareness of the goal of the Armenian national identity preservation. Activities aimed at promoting the idea of returning to homeland should form the pivot of building Armenia- Diaspora relations.
One should eventually realize that human resources are the greatest capital. Armenia with its population of three million will not be able to survive long in this difficult geopolitical environment. Today a number of formerly strong Armenian immigrant colonies have no future and break up slowly or maybe rapidly, moving to the US, Russia or Australia. Among such colonies are the Armenian communities of the Middle East and Tbilisi. It is just inadmissible to lose these communities brought up in the Armenian national spirit.
But some developments to make one feel optimistic are worth mentioning. Thousands of Armenians have come to live in Armenia on their own free will over the past decade. It means that the process of new hayrenadardzutyun (return to homeland) has started, although at the individual level. Whereas, Armenians should be invited to Armenia at the state level and be provided with all comforts. Immigration also brings direct investments in the form of capital and experts.
In the organizational sense, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, no new structures were created in Armenia and the Diaspora that would officially deal with problems related to the both grown relations in quantity and quality.
Thus, so far the involvement of the Diaspora in Armenia's life has proceeded in the following ways: 1) assistance programs, 2) lobbying (mainly in the US, recently in the European Union), 3) political patronage for certain political groups in Armenia.
In order to have progress, the Armenians need to enhance their self-organization both in homeland and in the Diaspora, as well as between them. Armenia with its failures and difficulties but also its achievements is the most realistic axis, in many respects - even the only one, around which the Diasporan Armenian life and identity can be built.
In my opinion, it would be useful to consider establishing abroad structures, whose only task will be providing possible assistance to those who return to homeland. These newly established structures should be independent from the other Diasporan structures and the Armenian state.
To summarize, the correct organization of Armenia-Diaspora cooperation envisages serious changes in the ideological and organizational life of the Armenian world (including Armenia's legislative field) based on the idea of the Armenians' unification in Armenia sooner or later.

[bell-the-cat]

Communism may have provided jobs but it destroyed the Armenian spirit. 70 years of Soviet rule will take an additional decade or two to reverse but they are on there way.

I disagree. 15 years worth of corruption has destroyed the Armenian spirit. All 70 years of Soviet rule did was to destroy the natural environment of Armenia. How many protestors marched on the streets of Yerevan in those months before the collapase of the Soviet Union? Half a million? How many will now march when the current regime sells out Nagorno Karabagh? Not enough to worry the thugs and barbed wire fences of Kocharian, I bet.

[Joseph]

I disagree. 15 years worth of corruption has destroyed the Armenian spirit. All 70 years of Soviet rule did was to destroy the natural environment of Armenia. How many protestors marched on the streets of Yerevan in those months before the collapase of the Soviet Union? Half a million? How many will now march when the current regime sells out Nagorno Karabagh? Not enough to worry the thugs and barbed wire fences of Kocharian, I bet.

Corruption is rife, that is no doubt but compared to some of the places I have been/lived, Armenia is doing pretty well. Yes, there are a host of problems.

[Steph]

Well, haven't been to this thread in a while, but given the fact that the Referendum on the Armenian Constitution has passed allowing for Dual-Citizenship, there just may be some renewed discussion here.

What does it mean for me? Well, naturally I will pursue Armenian Citizenship! However, the details and guidelines of elgibility for dual citizenship are quite vague to me. I believe there will be issues with my current inability to complete military service (though I would be happy to in the future), and restrictions on residency, since while I have a home in Yerevan, I am not on the house title as a occupant.

As a citizen of the United States this is the most ideal situation that could have come out of the referendum. I feel that by gaining membership in the citizenry of my motherland I can make a greater contribution to it's future. In short, dual-citizenship offers a comfortable stepping-stone towards Armenia, for someone like me who would have had a difficult time making the LEAP from US Citizenship and nothing else to Armenian Citizenship and nothing else.

Am I willing to pay state taxes?
Am I willing to pay a military exemption tax?
Am I willing to forfiet voting rights while residing outside Armenia?

YES YES YES!

One of the major benefits of Armenia accepting the diaspora and others as citizens is their ability to levy a tax on us. One could only imagine how much money the government could raise for a fiscal budget if they charged every new dual-citizen say $50/year! Imagine what that additional funding could be used for in the sphere of infrastucture and development projects. New Roads, Water and sewer systems, Infotech! The possibilities are endless.

As for a military exemption tax, if that is how they choose to justify allowing non-serving, non-resident citizens the priveledge of being citizens all the power to 'em! Having two brothers that served in the Armenian Armed Forces, and reading numerous books written about the Liberation of Artsakh, I have a very good understanding how bad the military needs funding. Armenia's military is already regarded as the most war-ready, toughest force in all former soviet countries. But with Azerbaijan warmongering about how they plan to spend the amount of Armenia's entire fiscal budget on their military alone by 2007, I am ready to do my part to help Armenia step it up as well. If that means sending money to my brother and having him deliver new RPG's and Kalashnikov's or cases of ammunition to the military I'll do that too - I will. It would be my honor to pay a tax, especially if part of it was to go to the pay raise of the average soldier, or buy new uniforms, etc. It must be done.

And there isn't much to say about voting. I can read the news from my comfy chair in the states every single day, but if I'm not on the ground in Hayastan how could I possibly make an informed voting decision. I think a dual-citizen should have to reside in the country for at least 1 year before voting is permissable, and must maintain residency at least 50% of the time after that in order to be elgible to vote. That is perfectly simple and acceptable to me - it's only fair that those that live the life on the land decide who represent them.

So, now I want to know about y'all. Who else has plans to apply for citizenship?

I saw at first hand in September one of the effects of these changes......Yerevan itself is being developed at a fast pace, soon their will be a completely pedestrianised boulevard from Opera to Republic Square, flanked by tower blocks (European size!) of glass, tufa and concrete. Many of these, though not all, are residential blocks and very, very nicely appointed.
However, the rub for locals is that the average cost of these is between $1,500 - $2,000 per square metre.
Many of these are being purchased by Dual-Citizens as investments, also many small, traditional houses throughout the city are being purchased, demolished and new modern houses being built on the land. One large market for these is the newly installed diplomatic community.
All in all, Yerevan is looking very good , for those with money as with any other place.