Epitome of Denial

[1.5 million]

This is the link to the Straight Dope discussion of the Armenian Genocide. Note I am 1.5 million there as well... my first post is #60 in the thread)

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=317466

[Gavur]

`intent to destroy'

The return game (1)

Tuesday, November 29, 2005

http://www.tdn.com.tr/editorial.php?ed=gunduz_aktan

By Gündüz AKTAN
Turkish Daily News

A conference held at Gazi University (Nov. 24-26) represented the first
response to the Armenian conference that had taken place at Bilgi
University. This conference was different from the earlier one in that it
was open to the public and those who held an opposite view were permitted to
speak up as well. In other words, those who maintained that an `Armenian
genocide' had happened were also permitted to take the floor.

During the conference one could not help but get the feeling, `It's good
that the `Armenian genocide' issue has been put forth. Otherwise, we would
never have unearthed certain facts concerning our own history.'

The Armenian problem surfaced in 1973 when the Turkish consul general in Los
Angeles and his deputy were assassinated in a hotel room. Later, ASALA
[Armenian terrorist group] terrorists assassinated nearly 40 more Turkish
diplomats. First-generation researchers such as Esat Uras, Selahi Sonyel,
Sinasi Orel, Bilal Simsir and Turkkaya Ataov wrote their books in the second
half of the 1970s. In 1983, Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Ambassador
Kamuran Gurun published his renowned `Armenian File.' In other countries,
too, those who oppose the genocide claims, such as Stanford Shaw, Heath
Lowry and, more recently, Justin McCarthy, have made serious contributions
to this effect in the face of terrorist threats.

A generation has passed. Now, greater numbers of newly emerging Turkish
historians and social scientists are tackling this issue. They base their
work on Turkish and foreign archival material. They have a great advantage
in that by now Ottoman documents have been arranged for the archives and
they know the Ottoman script.

These scholars do argue that the Armenian problem did not involve a
genocide. For that reason it has been claimed that they do not act in a
scientific manner. Their approach of giving weight to documents has been
criticized as `document fetishism' and their choice of documents as
`one-sided assessment.'

Armenians have prevented the correct writing of history through terrorist
threats. They commissioned their `paid' versions of history. They have
falsified documents. They have fabricated tales. First, the field of study
must be cleared of these unscientific, primitive lies and fabrications. In
this effort, one would inevitably be branded as an `official' or
'nationalistic' historian. Furthermore, how can the way the entire West, the
Latin and Orthodox world -- with the exception of Britain -- pressuring
Turkey to recognize the Armenian `genocide' be considered a scientific
attitude? Should they instead not be supporting our proposal for a joint
study with the Armenians?

At first glance one gets the impression that the `Armenian front' continues
to gain ground, to wit: the European Parliament decisions, a succession of
U.S. presidents' April 24 messages that `describe the act' of genocide
without using the term itself, attempts on the part of France to make this
issue one of the preconditions for starting Turkey's accession talks with
the EU, and the refusal to invite Turkish researchers who `deny the
genocide' to international meetings.

In fact, they have expanded the front into Turkey as well. Using all kinds
of methods, they have persuaded a group of `identity-less' intellectuals to
support the genocide claim. Halil Berktay, who had fulfilled important
`ideological' missions in the late 1960s, has undertaken the duty of
organizing that group. Although not even a single book reflecting the
Turkish view has been published in Armenia, many books that maintain the
`genocide' occurred are freely sold in Turkey. Meanwhile, in European
countries that preach human rights to the rest of the world, arguments that
`negate the genocide' hit a wall erected by the restrictions imposed on the
freedom of expression.

Despite all this, new generation historians are unveiling the facts one by
one. It was quite obvious that those scholars who took part in the
conference to maintain that Armenians were subjected to a genocide faltered
in the face of arguments put forth by historians such as Yusuf Halacoglu and
Hikmet Ozdemir. Meanwhile, the Center for Eurasian Strategic Studies (ASAM)
has awarded its `Prize for Studies on Crimes Against Humanity' to renowned
Holocaust scholar Guenter Lewy, who has, for a decade, not been able to find
a U.S. publisher for his book, suffering from covert censorship.

Commendably, those who defended the Turkish view at the conference were
obviously well versed in genocide law. They based their historical and
sociological studies in a legal framework. Those who held the opposite view
ignored the law just as they ignored historical documents. Taner Akcam, who
acts as their leader, has obviously felt the need to look into the legal
aspect of the problem at hand, having realized how poorly informed they are
in that regard. However, as he dwelt on the `intent to destroy,' he
conveniently omitted the need to identify a `motive' leading to any such
intent. Yet, the `intent to destroy' a certain group emerges only from
racist motivations, which altogether didn't exist in the Ottoman experience.

[Gavur]

Antelias: Turkish response to His Holiness Aram I

PRESS RELEASE
Catholicosate of Cilicia
Communication and Information Department
Contact: V.Rev.Fr.Krikor Chiftjian, Communications Officer
Tel: (04) 410001, 410003
Fax: (04) 419724
E-mail: [email protected]
Web: http://www.cathcil.org/

PO Box 70 317
Antelias-Lebanon

Armenian version: http://www.cathcil.org/v04/doc/Armenian.htm


TURKEY ECHOES ITS DENIAL POLICY IN RESPONSE TO ARMENIAN GENOCIDE
COMMENTS MADE BY HIS HOLINESS ARAM I


Turkey has responded to comments made recently by His Holiness Aram I in
Kuwait that it should recognize the Armenian Genocide, by repeating the same
denial policy so often stated by its government officials.

The Turkish embassy in Kuwait published a press release on November 25, the
day after the comments were made, "expressing its rage and protest to the
fictitious, one-sided, outrageous and untrue views of Catholicos Aram I."

"How can comments against a state be made in the borders of another state.
Such approaches do not contribute to the progress of diplomatic relations
between countries," states the embassy's press release.

Referring to the Armenian Genocide, the embassy considers it a "one-sided
approach by Armenians." "The Turkish government has on often expressed its
willingness to open its archives and hand them over to a committee formed of
Armenian and Turkish historians for study. Unfortunately, however, the
Armenian side has always refused Turkey's willingness," writes the embassy
in the press release.

"Those who try to force Turkey to change its history through one-sided
approaches, propaganda campaigns and international pressure, are completely
mistaken," threatens the press release.

His Holiness Aram I had emphasized the importance of the recognition of the
Armenian Genocide both by Turkey and the International Community during a
press conference in Kuwait on November 24.

The Pontiff had pointed out that the Armenian Genocide is not an issue of
religion; it is a matter of human rights and justice. His Holiness had
expressed his expectation that the Arab and Islamic worlds officially
recognize the historic fact of the Armenian Genocide, as a crime against
humanity.

The Catholicos' comments were widely reported in the local media.

##
The Armenian Catholicosate of Cilicia is one of the two Catholicosates of
the Armenian Orthodox Church. For detailed information about the history and
mission of the Cilician Catholicosate, you may refer to the web page of the
Catholicosate, http://www.cathcil.org/ The Cilician Catholicosate, the
administrative center of the church is located in Antelias, Lebanon.

[Gavur]

Azeri Official Says Armenian Cemeteries "open For Monitoring"

ANS TV, Baku
27 Dec 05

[Presenter] The chairman of the [Azerbaijani] State Committee for Work
with Religious Structures, Rafiq Aliyev, has commented on allegations
that Armenian tombstones have been destroyed in Azerbaijan.

[Aliyev] When they [Armenians] are in a difficult situation or come
across problems, they resort to similar lies and libels. Actually,
[Armenian] cemeteries remain undamaged and they are open for the
monitoring.

However, we encourage those who want to go and see cemeteries in
Susa [Karabakh] or the Qaraagaci cemetery in Agdam [district partly
occupied by Armenia]. We urge foreign organizations to come and
monitor graveyards in Azerbaijan and in Karabakh. Armenians have
destroyed graves and tombstones and ploughed cemeteries there.

There are international organizations dealing with faith and religious
freedoms, and we have sent letters to them. Despite the fact that we
constantly keep them informed of the situation, we do not see their
reaction and outcome of their activities.

[Hovik]

"open for the monitoring"

With regards to the "open for the monitoring" article which was just posted by Gavur:

Nobody should be destroying cemeteries. If Armenians are destroying them, it should be stopped immediately. That being said, I would like to point out that every 'allegation' made by Armenians about destruction of cultural heritage by Turkish or "Azeri"-Turkish peoples has been substantiated by photo or video evidence. Now I know it isn't any easier for an Azeri to take a picture of destruction of an Azeri cemetary in Agdam, than it is for an Armenian to take a picture of the destruction of a church in Van, yet I only see physical evidence being presented by Armenians. Why is that? If Armenians are destroying mosques and cemetaries the way "Azeris" are alleging, where is the evidence? If a Turk or "Azeri" wants to see evidence of the destruction of Armenian cultural heritage in the Turkish occupied territories of Western Armenia, all he or she has to do is request a copy of Simon Maghakyan's Cultural Genocide CD (http://www.armeniangenocide.com/foru...00&postcount=1)
Or, if an "Azeri" wishes to see evidence of the destruction of Khachkar's at the Jugha Cemetary by his or her own people, all they have to do is go here to watch a crisp, clear 15 MINUTE!!! video of them bashing them to pieces: http://www.hairenik.com/Haireniktv/HA_TV_Clip04.htm

But what do you do if you want to see proof of "Azeri" allegations???
As far as I know (and correct me if I am wrong) there is no proof...

Now that we've established that there is no known proof of "Azeri" claims, and enormous amounts of proof about Armenian claims we must ask ourselves how do Azeri's brush off evidence like that.

Well, they are obviously afraid to address the video evidence of Armenian claims. In the interviews with "Azeri" officials in recent days, none of them have addressed the video in a single instance. Isn't this strange? Do they not have a defense for that? If someone was on trial in a court and could just ignore the surveillance tape which shows them committing the crime, that would be wonderful wouldn't it... but that never happens, and I don't think it'll happen here. If you didn't do it, explain to us who did? Who are the people destroying the cemetery? How about some answers... Treat Armenians they way "Azeris" would want to be treated if they were in Armenian shoes (ie. if they ever came up with a drop of physical evidence).

[Gavur]

Yup Its always the case

Turks silence

On actual facts backed by actual physical evidence

IS DEAFENING!

[Turanist]

Why dont you look at cultural genocide of Uyghur Turks in China. YOu are so quick to forget.

[Gavur]

By Armenians?

[Turanist]

you are forgetting that Erevan had Muslim majority population. Armenia had lots of Muslims but today I cannot see that there are Muslims in Armenia.

so if Erivan had Muslim majority 100 years ago then why is there little or no evidence to show this? I am thinking what could have happened to all the evidence. i think you know the answer .

why you not mention Armenia weightlifting coach he is Azeri but Armenia is trying to hide him. Armenia dont like to mention him and he does not go to international tournaments is it because of his Azeri origins???

[Kharpert]

so if Erivan had Muslim majority 100 years ago then why is there little or no evidence to show this?

Ummm...you just admitted that your claim has no proof.

why you not mention Armenia weightlifting coach he is Azeri but Armenia is trying to hide him.

What's the coach's name? Do you have an article? News? Some sort of text so we can learn more about this guy?